Malone Stage 0 tune on Stock TDI possible?

BobnOH said:

Yea, the numbers Mongler posted were better than any part time job, he does have a rare blood type.

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no. i have A-, not rare.
anyone can do anti D (RH- program)
it takes a year to get into though and not every once makes the antibody.
3600 a year is normal donation. average of $30 a donation, there are bonuses and stuff along the way. my center does 40 a donation. I do 75 a donation but there are (again) bonuses.

BeetlePD said:

He said there was white smoke, but the engine did Not goto redline, do itvwas not a runaway
.

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definition of a runaway
A Diesel engine that has had its ignition turned off and fuel from the tank and injectors stopped but the engine continues to run on the engine oil from the crankcase (usually increasing RPM's).
dude if you just googled it PD anti shudder valve stop a runaway there is yes lots of info about hos it should stop a runaway but it often does not. just because it was tested in VCDS AT IDLE does NOT ensure that it will work properly in a runaway. Your dealing with a part that is near 20 years old as you clearly have noticed how things are in need of repair, unless that was replaced i would not trust it. (can it work, usually) has a runaway happened more than a few times on a PD, YES.
https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=278071

PoloPower said:

well that pretty much proves the anti shudder valve doesn't stop runaways then if you turned the key off

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and even in this thread linked our MOST knowledgeable TDI expert here and head guru even said

Franko6 said:

I would never depend on a ASV to stop a runaway. The valve is not intended to do that, nor do I think it is capable of pulling against the force of a full runaway.
AndyBees, I don't know what messing with the lower end is going to do. Why take off the rod caps and check all that stuff? If the engine will roll through, compression test it. If the compression is off, it's 99% chance it's because the rods are bent. If the rods are bent, then the change-out of not only the rod bearings, but pulling the head, replacing bent rods and possibly damaged pistons is in order.
The only reasonable way to stop a runaway is braking with the engine in gear. In the automatics, you are screwed.
There are usually enough warning signs that something is about to blow. For those who push the edge, I've thought that an over-pressure blowoff valve could be mounted ahead of the ASV.
Any wildly excessive boost would 'pop the cork' on a resettable valve. At that point, the fueling circuit for a destructive runaway would be interrupted. With the high boost gone, there is a chance the ASV could actually work, allowing the engine to be shut down. This Pop-off valve would be a particularly great add for an automatic, where a runaway has no option but to run it's course.

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If you wont listen to what franko6 has to say, then you will eat your words. he is probably one of if not the most knowledgeable about TDI's and this stuff. You said you will only listen to real mechanics, well this is as good as it gets.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=278408 POST #27
there are MANY THREADS about how wrong you are and how there is NOTHING you can do to stop it once its out of gear other than put something BIG over the turbo intake like a 2x4 or something that won't get sucked in.

BeetlePD said:

And yes I am grumpy. I lost my mom in August, and put my dad in a home. Three weeks ago some thief smashed my Honda windshield and stole my spare tire, brake rotors, and a bunch of oil bottles. Almost $2000 loss. If I catch the idiot I will pepperspray him. Now my Beetle is broken
Thank you very much for that generous offer! Unfortunately the broken TDI is in California, and I don’t know if it would be safe to drive it 3000 miles to my PA home. I’m just letting it sit for now.



I had no idea they paid for it. My dad always donated for free. I will give it a try. I could make an extra $80,000 between now and retirement age.

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id like to help but you need to help yourself. we are a community here but man, i have had a lot of bad S happen to me and my family. son is on life support and i lost every penny i had $185K in 1 year had to shut down my MHIC business and put my life into $42K into debt and move into a $1,500 trailer home. My son cost 1.3 Million in 6 months stay at John hopkins from birth to 6 months old. he is 3.5yo now and still cant talk do to his trech in his neck. You dont hear me complain about it (lemons to lemonade). it's called life, we are here to help you with your car but not to hear you go off on us. I'm out. im done. have fun with your crazy 2 decade old tune on a car thats not even worth the tires that are on it.

peace. thanks for the great ride, i have not been this engauged into a forum post in a long time..

you can feast on others from here on out, im all trolled out!

I'd be surprised if there's a single member here who hasn't experienced tragic loss of one sort or another. All the more reason to be civil to each other and do our best to adhere to the golden rule.

I guess I’m lucky my turbo failed with minimal oil leakage. I was able to drive it 1000 miles from Wyoming with no race condition of the engine. (Of course I never exceeded 60 the whole trip.) Climbing over mountains at just 35 was no fun. Now I know how truck drivers feel up those long grades

Everyone wants me to replace the turbo, but my wallet cannot sustain the cost. Besides a nonturbo TDI will still have more power than my Honda (60 hp). I’m used to driving slow cars ;-)

Sell the car then. Sounds like you could use any money you can get your hands on. There are many ways to make a grand or so but you seem unwilling or unable to do what it takes. Parking it for any length of time will also take its toll. Owning things requires that you have at least some money on hand to care for them and keep them registered and insured. Driving it as you want, with it partially disabled, is a bad idea.

Well at least I don’t have debt (no mortgage, nothing). I originally paid $12,000 (50,000 miles) but Carmaxx only offered $700 (at 80,000). That’s a huge loss. So I will fix it instead.

BTW what’s so horrible about driving a nonturbo 70hp car? That’s only a little less than its stock design. My nonturbo Honda only has 60hp and it isn’t horrible to drive.

Mongler98 said:

My son cost 1.3 Million in 6 months stay at John hopkins from birth to 6 months old..... im all trolled out!

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I used to live in Baltimore and when MIX1065 did their charity drive, I donated every year to Johns Hopkins..... they don’t charge any money for children. You paid nothing to JH hospital. (Also cslling someone a “troll” is as bad as calling a dude an “ashole” or woman a “b.tch”.). Please refrain from offending names. It’s bad enough we have s president that lacks basic manbers. We should not be imitating him.

I know you’re angry at me, but I am angry that my stupid TDI died at just 80,000 miles and will cost 1000s tp repair. My previous Honda and Dodge cars didn’t die until well after 200,000

To fix this without spending any money, you could remove the turbo, take off the compressor side, make a metal plate to block off the hole so you end up with just an exhaust manifold. You also have to cut the turbo oil line and crimp it to prevent it from leaking.

Then find a way to connect the air cleaner housing to the intake manifold. Just some old vacuum cleaner hose, or whatever you can scrounge up for free. If you can’t afford hose clamps, try using bailing wire or something to hold it on.

You might need to move the MAP sensor from the intercooler to somewhere in your home made air ducting. Not sure if that’s needed or not.

Then I guess you’d need a tune to make it run properly. Maybe it’ll run without a tune, but badly.

To recap, you need to make a way for filtered air to enter the engine, and a way for exhaust to get out.

I hope that helps in some way.

I like Mike. He actually answered my original question.

See if it passes California inspection that way with bailing wire, missing parts, and check engine lights flashing. It is nice you don't have any debt but it sounds like you also have no cash or assets either. Sounds like you way, way overpaid for that car and couldn't afford the upkeep either. I would sell it or donate it (if you can use the deduction). You obviously can't afford to own it.

No diesel inspection in PA. I wish TDI was more like my hybrid. It has a dead electric battery but still runs. It would be nice if a car with dead turbo still ran. I received an email with this suggestion: “some have modified the turbo housing, essentially gutting the internals. Gutting the turbo isn't the prettiest, but it is cheap. You will then need to address the intake pathway. The intake manifold to the airbox pipe will need to be made.”

That’s essentially what Mike said above. I don’t understand why I need a separate manifold. If the turbo is gutted the air should pass through the compressor area & into the engine. I don’t know.

.

BeetlePD said:

No diesel inspection in PA. I wish TDI was more like my hybrid. It has a dead electric battery but still runs. It would be nice if a car with dead turbo still ran. I received an email with this suggestion: “some have modified the turbo housing, essentially gutting the internals. Gutting the turbo isn't the prettiest, but it is cheap. You will then need to address the intake pathway. The intake manifold to the airbox pipe will need to be made.”
That’s essentially what Mike said above. I don’t understand why I need a separate manifold. If the turbo is gutted the air should pass through the compressor area & into the engine. I don’t know.

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Reality check:
State law requires vehicles imported to California to be registered here in a matter of a few weeks.
Perhaps I could assist your compliance with the rules in your vehicle's new home.

flee said:

Reality check: State law requires vehicles imported to California to be registered here in a matter of a few weeks.

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I have two addresses (temporarily CA and permanently PA)

Welp.....another one on my ignore list....so long

Ditto.

BeetlePD said:

I have two addresses (temporarily CA and permanently PA)

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State law is solely concerned with the vehicle location, not the owner's.
Perhaps if I had your local contact details I could be of assistance.

Mike_04GolfTDI said:

To fix this without spending any money, you could remove the turbo, take off the compressor side, make a metal plate to block off the hole so you end up with just an exhaust manifold. You also have to cut the turbo oil line and crimp it to prevent it from leaking.
Then find a way to connect the air cleaner housing to the intake manifold. Just some old vacuum cleaner hose, or whatever you can scrounge up for free.

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I like this plan, although I still don’t understand why I need an intake. It seems like the air could pass-through the gutted compressor side into the engine?

Another poster suggested using a prebuilt manifold/header from a 8v mk4

Either way probably cost $1000 parts/labor

Stupid car. All I wanted was 150,000 miles out of it, but only gave me 80,000

:-(

.

Getting someone to do the turbo gutting and reroute of the exhaust will be more costly than buying a used turbo and swapping it - I can guarantee you that.

Honestly. The cheapest option is going to be to find another turbo. There are a thousand junk yards around you... one of them will have a PD car with a turbo you can grab. Hell, a quick google search turned up knock-off center sections on eBay for less than $200, used junk yard turbos for $250ish, and new turbos for $500 and up.

For example: https://www.carparts.com/details/Vo...rbocharger_Cartridge/2006/TDI/REPV290105.html

So essentially, you can skip all the customization, buy a new turbo center-section for the same price you'd otherwise be paying for the tune, and have a complete car.

Stg 0 - $250
Remove & Reattach turbo: $500
Tearing turbo apart, gutting, creating block off plates: $250? $500?

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vs

New turbo center section: $250
Remove & reattach turbo: $500

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BeetlePD said:

I like this plan, although I still don’t understand why I need an intake. It seems like the air could pass-through the gutted compressor side into the engine?
Another poster suggested using a prebuilt manifold/header from a 8v mk4
Either way probably cost $1000 parts/labor
Stupid car. All I wanted was 150,000 miles out of it, but only gave me 80,000
:-(
.

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Well I'm thinking the easiest way to gut the turbo is to first remove it from the car. Once you've done that, then it's pretty easy to remove the compressor side and cover the gaping hole by bolting on a piece of sheet metal or something.

If you wanted to go the absolute simplest and nastiest route possible, you could remove the exhaust downpipe, and then smash the impeller all to heck so the blades aren't in the way causing a restriction to the flow of exhaust. Suck the pieces out with a vacuum cleaner or something, and then bolt the downpipe back on. There are only three bolts holding the downpipe to the turbo exhaust outlet.

On the compressor side you could do more or less the same thing. Just get the compressor blades out of the way so air can flow. You'd want to remove every little piece so nothing gets sucked into the engine.

It would probably be wise to disconnect the oil drain line on the bottom of the turbo and plug the connection where it goes back to the crank-case. Also block off the oil supply line which comes from around the bottom of the oil filter housing. You could probably cut the line off and crimp and/or solder it shut. (Maybe JB Weld would work... cut the line off, fill the end with JB Weld, crimp it, and let the JB Weld set for a day)

This is a hideous and horrible way to get the car running without a turbo, but if you want to spend no money at all, and can't remove the turbo to do a nicer modification, then you gotta do what you gotta do, right?

USMCFieldMP said:

Getting someone to do the turbo gutting and reroute of the exhaust will be more costly than buying a used turbo and swapping it - I can guarantee you that.

Honestly. The cheapest option is going to be to find another turbo. There are a thousand junk yards around you... one of them will have a PD car with a turbo you can grab. Hell, a quick google search turned up knock-off center sections on eBay for less than $200, used junk yard turbos for $250ish, and new turbos for $500 and up.

For example: https://www.carparts.com/details/Vo...rbocharger_Cartridge/2006/TDI/REPV290105.html

So essentially, you can skip all the customization, buy a new turbo center-section for the same price you'd otherwise be paying for the tune, and have a complete car.



vs

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This is very good advice to BLOW your engine after putting this crap in your car.

BeetlePD said:

I like this plan, although I still don’t understand why I need an intake. It seems like the air could pass-through the gutted compressor side into the engine?

Another poster suggested using a prebuilt manifold/header from a 8v mk4

Either way probably cost $1000 parts/labor

Stupid car. All I wanted was 150,000 miles out of it, but only gave me 80,000

:-(

.

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You can buy 2.0L none turbo gas engine for $100-200 , you get everything you need + tune is $350.

jetta said:

This is very good advice to BLOW your engine after putting this crap in your car.

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Chinese junk has come a long way in the last decade. I still wouldn't put it on any of my cars, but I'm also not the person trying to find the cheapest option available.

And you're unlikely to blow an engine with a cheap CHRA. The turbo isn't going to behave that differently; if anything, it'll perform worse than the stock turbo, but not in a "going to blow your car up" manner. Besides, these TDI's are fairly flexible on turbos and something that small isn't going to have a lot of variance in compressor ability.

If it were me, I'd go to a Pick-n-Pull and take one off of a crashed car. Or get a used one off of eBay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SKODA-Fabi...-SEAT-Ibiza-FR-SPARES-OR-REPAIRS/324011616338

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Passat-...urbo-Charger-Actuator-028145702R/174102864614

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-AUDI-SE...URBOCHARGER-2000-2008-038253019C/163890509064

jetta said:

You can buy 2.0L none turbo gas engine for $100-200 , you get everything you need + tune is $350.

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And the labor associated with an engine swap isn't something he's going to be too keen on paying for. End up costing just as much to just get a new turbo.

BeetlePD said:

I started Usenet forums in the 80s. Their rules required you make a new topic when the subject changes. Previous subject was “diagnose” and changed to “Malone Stage 0.” I still follow those netiquette rules.
It’s $4000 (dealer estimate). $1500 labor plus parts. Want to help pay the bill? (silence). I don’t have that much money. IN THE MEANTIME the turbofree Malone Stage 0 is only $250.

- $250 is Much cheaper (90% off)

I’m just trying to fix my car without bankruptcy. You Lightflyer are being the opposite of helpful.

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narfblast has covered the process of "fixing" the blown up turbo to safely run n/a
you do need to take the turbo apart to plug up the holes left by the broken pieces, otherwise your engine will eventually run away and destroy itself burning the lube oil as fuel

all that said, stock take-off turbos are like a hundred bucks. Cheaper option by far.

BeetlePD said:

Another poster suggested using a prebuilt manifold/header from a 8v mk4

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to use the AEG manifold on a TDI you need to cut up the flange quite a bit, the crossbar blocks the intake ports

you could just leave the intake manifold off, but then you have no air filter...

UPDATE: I finally returned to California from my visit witj dad in Pennsylvania. I plan to:

- remove the turbo

- block the turbo oil feed

- And drive the natural-aspirated car until it eventually dies (about 50,000 miles).

Removing the turbo should be easy, but I have no idea how to block the oil feed. Hopefully a local TDI mechanic can do it. When the Beetle eventually dies I will a switch to my Honda Accord or Insight or other spare car

.

NOT THIS THREAD AGAIN!
just a reminder that what your going to do is 100% illegal and you will get fines when pulled over for smoking out the traffic. how again is the work to "block off the turbo" less work than replacing it? you going to make a down pipe? if you cant replace a turbo then how can you make up some pipe and weld it up? seems way more work
why not sell the car as is and move on with life instead of doing all this bs

and you should have let me know you where close by, i have my old turbo (granted its a K turbo, stock on AHU) but i have everything to run it. you could have had it for next to nothing. and its really easy to install and make work vs going from a boost to a VTN

BeetlePD said:

UPDATE: I finally returned to California from my visit witj dad in Pennsylvania. I plan to:

- remove the turbo

- block the turbo oil feed

- And drive the natural-aspirated car until it eventually dies (about 50,000 miles).

Removing the turbo should be easy, but I have no idea how to block the oil feed. Hopefully a local TDI mechanic can do it. When the Beetle eventually dies I will a switch to my Honda Accord or Insight or other spare car
.

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m12x1.5 is the oil feed banjo bolt size

just get an oil drain plug the same size, iirc BMW or mercedes uses that size
make sure it is the style to use a copper washer and not a rubber o-ring

you will also need to disassemble the turbo and put a bolt through the center housing to seal up the exhaust from both the crankcase and atmosphere
while it is apart you'll want to take the vane ring out of the turbine housing for a little more flow, just three torx screws

pipe from the ASV straight into the MAF, bypass everything else

Mongler98 said:

just a reminder that what your going to do is 100% illegal and you will get fines when pulled over for smoking out the traffic.

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sometimes I forget how much of an idiot you are, but then I remember you talking about using cinder blocks as jackstands

do your research, learn about the subject enough to avoid spouting blatantly wrong information, then maybe try and give helpful advice

why would it smoke more? metered air is metered air, it'll be slow as a first gen insight or a trabant but it will not smoke any more than the stock engine did unless you remap the ECU

[486] said:

sometimes I forget how much of an idiot you are, but then I remember you talking about using cinder blocks as jackstands
do your research, learn about the subject enough to avoid spouting blatantly wrong information, then maybe try and give helpful advice
why would it smoke more? metered air is metered air, it'll be slow as a first gen insight or a trabant but it will not smoke any more than the stock engine did unless you remap the ECU

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Turbo is emissions equipment for a tdi. California. Federal bla bla bla. Forever limp mode and cel. Not able to pass emissions and inspection is technically not road legal. Not to mention out of state tagging from primary residence to avoid emissions. Nuff said. Stop the name calling.
Also everything you said is inaccurate or taken out of context.
I was asking about how bad of an ideas CMU bock as to hold up the car with additional jackstands (not an issue). A stock map in limp mode will still produce more smoke than a properly running engine with a functioning non boost leaking turbo. Car will smoke every time it starts up and once put into limp mode should be next to impossible to gain merging speeds or even holding speed on a highway.
But seriously calling me an idiot? Your stooping even past my level!

The OP has chosen his solution. We're done here.

BeetlePD, good luck.