considering a high mileage Jetta wagon--thoughts?

Hi All,
I've been thinking about a diesel Jetta wagon for a little while now. I can't afford one with low miles, but the word from the folks I've talked to is that these diesel Jettas will last forever, if taken care of. I found one less than two hours from me that might be a good fit:
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/cto/3361177135.html

Good solid TDI automatic Jetta wagon. Most of the 144.7K miles are highway - the original owner drove back and forth to Cape Cod from Annapolis. There are good repair records. I bought it recently and cleaned it up and put two new tires on and wiper blades - all it needed to pass inspection, which is current and can be used to register.

This is my first experience with a diesel. I like cars, and bought this one as a kind of experiment. I'm impressed and will probably buy a new one. Otherwise I'd just keep this forever.

So, take a look at the pictures and come on by if you're serious! I think it's fairly priced, and it's ready to go.

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He's asking $7200. I think that might be a little high?

I'm interested in some feedback from folks that have actually owned these diesel Jettas. Do they really last to 300,000+ miles on the original engine? Is any savings in fuel economy eaten up by higher maintenance cost on these Jettas? Am I crazy to consider buying a Jetta with almost 150,000 miles?

I also hear that these auto transmissions tend to die sooner or later. I've been looking for prices on replacing a transmission but can't find any so far. Also, is it likely I could get a standard transmission put in to replace a dead auto transmission? Or is that something that only "enthusiasts" who are doing it themselves tend to do?

I got a spreadsheet from the seller with the following service records. I also bought the autocheck report and it came back clean.

2003 Jetta TDI wagon - 10/28/12
delivery 9/30/2002
Fitzgerald 2/26/2003 4697 oil change
137.96 Fitzgerald 5/28/2003 9366 10K service
49.18 Fitzgerald 6/30/2003 10325 vent, bumper
0.00 Fitzgerald 11/10/2003 16925 oil change
154.76 Mr. Tire 2/28/2004 1 michelin tire
Fitzgerald 3/2/2004 23804 coupon service
338.63 Fitzgerald 8/19/2004 34369 30K, oil
0.00 Fitzgerald 9/17/2004 35930 stereo speaker
394.53 Fitzgerald 1/25/2005 43292 oil change
0.00 Fitzgerald 2/11/2005 43744 #3 glow plug
270.25 Fitzgerald 2/15/2005 43744 EGR valve replace
0.00 Fitzgerald 2/28/2005 44227 glow plug harness
25.75 Fitzgerald 8/23/2005 53357 oil change
24.65 Fitzgerald 10/29/2005 58333 oil change
556.83 Autosport 11/3/2005 58656 60K, synth oil
169.14 Fitzgerald 5/13/2006 67699 headlight, oil change
246.18 Fitzgerald 5/23/2007 85444 Full inspect, oil, rethread
1476.97 Metrics 7/6/2007 90369 EMC, struts, timing belt, w. pump
EGR, oil, filters, 90K
250.95 Metrics 2/11/2008 95608 glow plugs and harness
oil change, needs brakes
235.05 Metrics 2/12/2008 95610 rear brakes and rotors
28.35 Metrics 1/14/2009 108304 oil change
52.97 Metrics 5/28/2009 110767 oil change
367.00 Metrics 4/1/2010 119176 oil, dimmer, antenna
273.22 Tires Plus 6/18/2011 129529 2 tires, alignment
500.50 Metrics 11/8/2011 135230 serp belt, roller, oil syntech
493.35 Fitzgerald 7/23/2012 144398 brake light bulbs thermostat
synth oil change
Recommend: mid muffler bracket
Tie rod ends
41.09 Fitzgerald 8/8/2012 144422 AC relay
223.46 Radial Tire 10/22/2012 144700 2 tires, alignment




-Josh

150000 mi. on a T D I is low mileage. I have an 03 TDI Beetle I bought with 130000 2 years ago and have 180000 on it now and up until a few weeks ago when I did the timing belt replacement I had zero Maintenance cost except for brakes and tires. Good Luck. Price may be on the High side but check it out.

Some of the automatics on these fail early, others seem to last about normally. The consensus on this site is the autos used up through 03 are not very good, and expensive to replace.

A 5sp swap is a good way to recover from an autotrans failure. Many have done it with very good results. Some shops have done enough to consider the swap "routine", and not an experiment.

If trans is working fine, just drive it. It might last to 200k. If it poops, do the swap.

So what is a transmission replacement going to cost me? I'd be interested in putting in a manual transmission. I've been searching on cost, and the only price I've been able to find is this thread, where texcl says he paid $2300 to have a manual transmission in place of the automatic on a Beetle (not a Jetta).

Also, where would I get an manual transmission put in a Jetta that had an 01m auto installed at the factory? My first thought was Aamco (we have them in my area--Eastern panhandle of WV), but after some searching on this site, it seems that Aamco is not well thought of around here. Sounds like they've done a number of poor jobs on VW transmissions. Any tips on how to find a good shop to do a 5 speed manual swap out would be appreciated!

jbeall said:

So what is a transmission replacement going to cost me? I'd be interested in putting in a manual transmission. I've been searching on cost, and the only price I've been able to find is this thread, where texcl says he paid $2300 to have a manual transmission in place of the automatic on a Beetle (not a Jetta).

Also, where would I get an manual transmission put in a Jetta that had an 01m auto installed at the factory? My first thought was Aamco (we have them in my area--Eastern panhandle of WV), but after some searching on this site, it seems that Aamco is not well thought of around here. Sounds like they've done a number of poor jobs on VW transmissions. Any tips on how to find a good shop to do a 5 speed manual swap out would be appreciated!

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You'll need to peruse the TDI Club listing for trusted mechanics (aka gurus). There may be one close by, depending on where you live. If you do buy, or even if you keep looking, there is an excellent FAQ and How to section on this website. Use them. The 101 section is particularly useful.

As for the tranny, junkyards will be cheap. Cars are periodically parted out in the Classified section on here, so that's an option.

I personally would not buy an automatic with 150k on it for 7200. If he bought it recently there is probably a good chance that he paid much less (you can find one for much less too just keep looking.. if you want an auto...) for it regardless of what he says (curbstone). I would pay maybe 5200 for an auto wagon... If you cant work on your own car... get a manual.. they are much cheaper to have repaired/serviced period... (also If you are looking for a Manual Wagon with around 150k on it 7200 is about the right price maybe slightly more..) I personally would buy a TDI with 275k on it without batting an eye. They are wonderful cars... and in the US, you are seriously limited on the Diesel 4 cylider market so there is really only one reasonable option... VW.... AND there is this fantastic forum I have heard about that can help you with any problem you can think of..... i think its called TDIclub.com or something like that..

You need a whole wrecked 5sp car to get the kit for the swap to 5sp. Lots of little bits needed besides the gearbox. Gurus are used to what is needed. There should be someone close enough to you, if we knew where you are!!

"This is my first experience with a diesel. I like cars, and bought this one as a kind of experiment. I'm impressed and will probably buy a new one. Otherwise I'd just keep this forever"

Experiment my a$$.... an experiment in trying to make 2 grand off the next poor guy...
Hopefully not you

If you are keen on these cars really start looking... but decide exactly what you want... ie: Sedan or Wagon, auto or 5 speed, leather or cloth, silver or black, etc and STICK to it, thats how you will get your best deal. there are many to choose from... and me personally I always buy cars from people whos name is on the title for more than just a month... thats a pretty good indication that they are trying to flip it...

There are some really nice examples of these cars on this site for sale by members who have had them for quite a while and know and love them.

Just my 2 cents

Ski in NC said:

You need a whole wrecked 5sp car to get the kit for the swap to 5sp. Lots of little bits needed besides the gearbox. Gurus are used to what is needed. There should be someone close enough to you, if we knew where you are!!

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I'm in the Eastern Panhandle of WV. Nearby cities include Martinsburg WV, Harpers Ferry WV, Frederick MD, Winchester VA and Leesburg VA.

Is there a tdiclub.com listing of "gurus" by location, that I could find somebody who could help me out with a 5 speed swap?

Van Wylder said:

You'll need to peruse the TDI Club listing for trusted mechanics (aka gurus). There may be one close by, depending on where you live. If you do buy, or even if you keep looking, there is an excellent FAQ and How to section on this website. Use them. The 101 section is particularly useful.

As for the tranny, junkyards will be cheap. Cars are periodically parted out in the Classified section on here, so that's an option.

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I'll read through all this. I take it the $2000 to $2500 is based on finding a destroyed donor vehicle in a junkyard that I can get cheap parts off of, right?

Meaning, if I had to by a remanufactured transmission, it would be quite a bit more than that.

jbeall said:

Is there a tdiclub.com listing of "gurus" by location, that I could find somebody who could help me out with a 5 speed swap?

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Are you 100% set on a wagon?

theantirice said:

Are you 100% set on a wagon?

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Yes, we really want a wagon. Thanks for checking!

from TDI101:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=130044

They will go forever dont worry about the miles. My car currently has 440,000 Miles on original turbo, original engine original IP but 3rd 01M Auto Tranny. Thats the reason I have the 5 speed swap in my garage.

I decided to pass. Posts here and elsewhere (e.g., vwvortex.com) that were extremely cautionary regarding the O1M transmission convinced me I couldn't afford it.

Instead, I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for a manual transmission TDI. My current commuter car is a 1995 Pontiac Bonneville with 150,000 miles. I am hoping it will last me until 175,000 before another major repair, but we'll see. If it does, then I've got years to look for the wagon that's a good fit for me.

The problem for me with this particular car is the uncertainty. If I sunk $7200 into this vehicle, I would not have any money leftover for the inevitable transmission repair job. I just can't take that risk.

-Josh

The five speed automatic(09A) is a more reliable transmission such as I have on my 05 Golf. It was also used on the Jetta also, but I forget which MY's.

I just bought (and have since added another 3k miles to) an 03 wagon with 245k miles... AND THE ORIGINAL AUTO TRANSMISSION.

Change the fluid, and the transmission WILL LAST - also add an external cooler. The temperatures (monitored by ScanGauge) on my transmission were running 200 degrees on the original fluid (which came out brown like oil but not burnt smelling) and nothing odd in the pan. With fresh Mobil 1 Synthetic Multi-vehicle ATF and a new external cooler (eliminated the heat exchanger) the transmission temps are now 160 on the highway and only 180 in heavy Atlanta traffic. No fan needed if the cooler is mounted in front of the AC fan - just turn on the AC and that fan will pull air through. The cooler is the first thing the air touches, so it gets the maximum cooling.

It's just like with investing, you have to evaluate the risk and make a personal decision based on how risk averse you are.

For me, I'd rather not take the chance, and I'm going to hold out for a manual. Sounds like for Geordi, he's comfortable taking the chance. He might also get better returns on his 401(k) than I do, because he takes more aggressive positions

Geordi said:

I just bought (and have since added another 3k miles to) an 03 wagon with 245k miles... AND THE ORIGINAL AUTO TRANSMISSION.

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You're lucky - but the odds are that the transmission will need replacing in the near future. Some cars are at the top end of the spread that determines the average of anything. One of the well-known mechanics here, Hevster1, said he hasn't seen an alternator last much over 300,000 miles in these cars... our factory-original one is approaching 500,000 miles... (I keep a spare in the trunk...) YMMV

Yuri

Here's another possibility--emailed for more info and pictures.

http://york.craigslist.org/cto/3384987492.html

Edit: never mind, I misread this listing. It's surely not a TDI. The price alone should have alerted me.

I'd also stay away from automatics. Not only are their durability highly variable, but you lose power, add noise at cruise, and they deliver significantly worse FE (10% or more) than a 5 speed.

If the car hasn't been modified and is well maintained, don't hesitate to buy a car with mileage in the 200s. The drivetrain is pretty robust, and the cars don't rust nearly as soon as earlier models. My wagon has one small spot of rust on a rocker panel that I'll have repaired next Spring, but otherwise it's pretty clean after 10 New England winters.

Hold out for a wagon if you want one. You'll pay a premium, but they are one of the more versatile vehicles I've ever owned.

Ok, yet another--and this time it's clearly listed as a TDI.

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/3386880055.html

2004 Jetta GLS TDI Wagon; 105,000 mi; 1.9 liter diesel; manual transmission; 39+ mpg city / 48+ mpg highway; heated leather seats, CD, power roof, two sets of seasonal tires (winter & summer); new timing belt and accessories; nothing wrong with wagon, family has simply outgrown; great commuter vehicle with unmatched fuel economy. Asking $7500; Kelly Blue Book estimates value at $9141 being in good condition.

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I've emailed for the VIN, maintenance records, and pictures, and will call the seller once we get past 9:00. I figure it's polite to wait until regular business hours.

I looked up Edmunds.com "True Market Value" and Kelley Blue Book's value, and they were $8325 and $9666, respectively, assuming the highest condition rating was selected. For Edmund's "clean" condition, it was $7262, and KBB's "good" rating, it was $9016.

This is 4 hours away, so it would be an all day affair to get, and I've had to take a trailer to pick it up... I'm thinking about asking if he'll let me take it to a local VW dealership to get it inspected (on my own dime, of course). I did a search and I see three dealerships near McCandless (the town on the listing). If you were selling a vehicle like this, would you be comfortable/uncomfortable doing this? Do you think this is a good idea to request (and pay for), as the buyer?

I bought my 03 wagon with 232k. Now 291k, only issues, are normal maitenance stuff. Bearings, clutch, etc. Mine is manual.

It's been about 24 hours and I haven't heard back. I emailed the seller and called the number on the listing yesterday, and I just emailed again this morning.

I would call again except for one problem... I've got a nasty cold and lost my voice. I was pretty hoarse yesterday and I guess it's possible he couldn't understand my phone number on the voicemail. I did say it three different times because I was concerned it would be difficult to understand.

Anyway, he's added pictures to the listing. I would attach them to this message directly (so they would stay with this thread after the listing expires), but I don't have posting permissions. I'm too new of a forum user, I think. So check out the listing for the pictures.

Looks like a great car for a good price. If you like the color.

Some O1M's are good others bad, I have one with a 190,000 after Valve body swap and TC harness. Shifts good, your milage is what hurts. I get around 39 miles per gallon combined mines in a Beetle. On the interstate I get 45 MPG on a long haul. I had a guy come over with his 2000 Jetta TDI with five speed manual to use my VCDS and his MPG was 47 combined. I was depressed about my milage, but my O1M slams fast and hard compared to the manuals on take off and acceleration it is very quick. We compared and test drove both our cars. I have modified mine a little, but nothing much. I wish some people would realize the O1M is a quick transmission and dependable in the right circumstances. A high milage O1M is like rolling the dice and taking a gamble. If I wanted a used vehicle that I could trust just to drive I would get a manual, but a good O1M has advantages. I can spin my tires at a dead stop, and accelarate fairly quickly from 0 to 65 in short order. I noticed the manual was slower this was probably do to the time it took to shift and engage the clutch. Both vehicles are stock.

So I finally got one response, just four words, "Where are you located?". No answers to my other questions. I responded with by telling him the area I'm in, and asked again for the VIN, and whatever maintenance records he has...

If this is a CL ad you just never know if the person is scamming, does not monitor the ad or has sold the car and moved on.
Keep plugging away but have some other cars on your list in case this falls through.
It took me 3 months to find my 03 Jetta 5 spd.
FWIW my wifes 02 Wagon has an 01M with 185k on it with regular fluid/filter changes and it delivers over 41 mpg.

04 TDI wagon 215K 5speed

http://asheville.craigslist.org/cto/3389533259.html
just saw this one in NC

gmanz said:

http://asheville.craigslist.org/cto/3389533259.html
just saw this one in NC

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Looks good, just can't afford the travel. Too far to make it in one day, so I'd need to spend two days off work, plus the travel cost... but maybe I'll email him anyway. If he came down on the price, I could afford the time off work.

-Josh