www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) > TDI Power Enhancements

TDI Power Enhancements Archives on TDI Power Enhancement related items.

View Poll Results: Which car would win in a drag race?
Car A will win because it has twice as much torque. 216 51.55%
Car B will win because the engine spins faster. 80 19.09%
The cars will tie. 123 29.36%
Voters: 419. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 11th, 2006, 10:45   #16
Audi5000TDI
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: CA, Good old USA
Fuel Economy: 44,51, 59.08 mpg
Default

I think all you chipper's and nozzlers that are looking at RC1, RC1+, RC2, RC3 and .205s, Bosch .203, or fatty .216s should take a look at whats happening on the dyno for torque and horsepower at 1800 to 3500 rpm, because day in, day out, driving on the road, those are the regions and the numbers your car uses, not 140hp for a 1.9 at redline.

I find it amazing how so many of the people here in America that drive cars are fascinated with the max hp number of an engine on a car. It's ludicrous, because most people never get to that maximum on a gasser. Now on a TDI, maximum torque is easily reachable in daily driving, even reachable every time you shift a gear in your 5 speed.

Something to think about... how hard your engine is working when it's generating maximum torque at moderate RPMS.
Audi5000TDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2006, 10:51   #17
jackbombay
Veteran Member
 
jackbombay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Diesel knows best
TDI(s): A4 Jetta
Fuel Economy: 57/43/32
Default

Ooops a couple of other people posted adressing the same questions I answered in my last post while I was typing/getting distracted...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIMeister
This is a very interesting thread to me as I've long wanted to do some debunking of the widespread misunderstanding and misconception of torque and horsepower. Jack beat me to it but in light of the study that I'm currently doing, this thread is quite timely.
I've wanted to start this thread for a while as well, I could never figure out a good way to illustrate the relationship between torque and HP untill I came up with the hypotheticall race poll... Which I figured would be the perfect bait to get a guy like you involved
__________________


Hp vs. TQ
jackbombay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2006, 11:08   #18
TDIMeister
Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast
Moderator at Large
 
TDIMeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
TDI(s): TDI
Default

Funny how we seem to bounce ideas off each other. Simultaneously to seeing the poll thread and seeing the tallies of the votes, the thought popped in my mind that democratizing something doesn't necessarily lead to the right answer. I mean, you can have a poll result that is completely unanimous that "2+2=5", but it's not going to make the answer correct. The point is being amply made here.
__________________

TDIMeister's German-imported 1998 Audi A4 Avant TDI quattro

Are you receiving unwelcome sales solicitations or inappropriate, harassing messages in your PM? You can report them by pressing the image on the top right of the message in a similar way as reporting inappropriate posts.
TDIMeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2006, 11:16   #19
TDIMeister
Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast
Moderator at Large
 
TDIMeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
TDI(s): TDI
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eetsoot
TDImeister, STOP IT! My head hurts and I'm bleeding from my nose and ears!

Great stuff even though I had to reread it a couple of times before I got it.
If you forget everything else that was said, just go back to the foundation of the question, which was that BOTH cars had a constant 200 HP at the wheels. Without caring about a single detail about how that 200 HP got to the wheels, including any discussion about CVTs, RPM, torque curves, blah blah blah -- the simple, fundamental fact is that 200 fixed WHP on car A corresponds to the exact same acceleration force as 200 fixed WHP on car B as far as the tire and road surface is concerned when started from a hypothetically identical initial condition.
__________________

TDIMeister's German-imported 1998 Audi A4 Avant TDI quattro

Are you receiving unwelcome sales solicitations or inappropriate, harassing messages in your PM? You can report them by pressing the image on the top right of the message in a similar way as reporting inappropriate posts.
TDIMeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2006, 11:29   #20
03_01_TDI
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Denmark
TDI(s): Na
Default

final drive ratio... is whats its about.

A two speed powerglide with 4:456 gears will run like a ape down a 1/4mile.

same engine with 3.13 gear and it will be much much slower.


drag racing is point less... fun none the less but very point less. you only win by a inch or two. yet you spend $$$$$$$ money just to go .5 mph faster.
03_01_TDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2006, 11:51   #21
mkosem
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: OH, US
Fuel Economy: 47mpg AVG
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audi5000TDI
I think all you chipper's and nozzlers that are looking at RC1, RC1+, RC2, RC3 and .205s, Bosch .203, or fatty .216s should take a look at whats happening on the dyno for torque and horsepower at 1800 to 3500 rpm, because day in, day out, driving on the road, those are the regions and the numbers your car uses, not 140hp for a 1.9 at redline.

I find it amazing how so many of the people here in America that drive cars are fascinated with the max hp number of an engine on a car. It's ludicrous, because most people never get to that maximum on a gasser. Now on a TDI, maximum torque is easily reachable in daily driving, even reachable every time you shift a gear in your 5 speed.

Something to think about... how hard your engine is working when it's generating maximum torque at moderate RPMS.
Speak for yourself. I take my engine up over 4000rpms all the time under normal driving circumstances. If I had power much beyond that, I'd be up there more often. The thread is about acceleration. The folks making high HP at higher RPMS are going faster.

--Matt
__________________
2001 Golf GL TDI - Bridgestone Potenza G009(205/60R15), Bosio Sprint764 Nozzles, EIP Dogbone, Eurogear CF Hood, Mufflerectomy, Panzer Skidplate
mkosem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2006, 12:50   #22
jnecr
Veteran Member
 
jnecr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Fuel Economy: 40ish?
Default

High RPMs don't help the longevity of an engine though... Something to think about.
jnecr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2006, 13:20   #23
mkosem
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: OH, US
Fuel Economy: 47mpg AVG
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnecr
High RPMs don't help the longevity of an engine though... Something to think about.
4000rpms is far from high RPMS realistically, hardly a mechanical feat for ANY internal combustion engine found in a car. If anything it is keeping everything a bit cleaner. Yes there is more potential for stress on the turbo, but the turbo is a wear part.

--Matt
__________________
2001 Golf GL TDI - Bridgestone Potenza G009(205/60R15), Bosio Sprint764 Nozzles, EIP Dogbone, Eurogear CF Hood, Mufflerectomy, Panzer Skidplate
mkosem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2006, 13:33   #24
jnecr
Veteran Member
 
jnecr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Fuel Economy: 40ish?
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkosem
If I had power much beyond that, I'd be up there more often.

I was speaking more on this comment. Thinking that you meant if you had a gas engine that revved high you would be at redline all the time. I have no problem taking my engine to 4500 RPM on a daily basis but might think twice about hitting 6500-7000 RPM on a daily basis in any engine.
__________________
-John
jnecr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2006, 13:45   #25
mojogoes
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: england
TDI(s): mk3 tdi golf
Fuel Economy: not much
Default

I must admit its not my forte either (drag racing ) i think there's a lot more skill in circuit racing......and rally driving is much likened to riding in the isle of man tt in other types of motor sport fraternities ( you have to be mad ).

I would agree that gearing play's a large part in how fast a combustion engine will perform a certain task.............a good example would be the 250cc motorbikes that do 140/150mph cos they ain't got amples of power but have got 10/12 gears or more.

Just as long as you can make enough energy to pull the next gear.
__________________
A3 / mk3 golf with 249Whp "Now in the hands of someone else"

Last edited by mojogoes; February 11th, 2006 at 13:48.
mojogoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2006, 15:44   #26
Bob_Fout
Oil Wanker
 
Bob_Fout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Indiana
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnecr
I was speaking more on this comment. Thinking that you meant if you had a gas engine that revved high you would be at redline all the time. I have no problem taking my engine to 4500 RPM on a daily basis but might think twice about hitting 6500-7000 RPM on a daily basis in any engine.
I doubt a 2.0T has any problems running at 6000 to redline for short periods...in a situation where you drop 2 or 3 gears to accelerate quickly and upshift as necessary. Or even if you camped out at 60 MPH in 2nd gear for 5 minutes.

The I-4 gasser used in the new Civic SI redlines at 8000 RPM...
__________________
2003 Jetta TDI (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
Photos | Mods | CJ-4 Oils | Oil Analysis | Stage II Cam
Bob_Fout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2006, 17:23   #27
jnecr
Veteran Member
 
jnecr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Fuel Economy: 40ish?
Default

I realize that those gas engines are made to rev higher than our TDIs but I think you may also agree that hitting redline on a daily basis is not the best thing for said engines. Whereas it's not a big deal for our TDIs because our redline is so low... Then again, you may disagree..
jnecr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2006, 18:16   #28
OhMagoo
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Barrie ON
Default

Curious discussion...I run a 475 Cat into a 13 speed trans.. The engine develops a peak torque of 1850 ft/lbs of torque at 1200 rpm. If I could shift fast enough, there are few cars that would keep up with the rate of acceration. With a final drive ratio of 3.70, that engine will run all day and all night traveling at 130 kph.

In real world driving conditions, with these engines...the big Cats, the more hp the engine produces merely enables the duration of the applied torque. Liken it to a 100 meter sprinter versus a 1500 meter runner...the more hp, the longer the pull.

Someone pointed out that an understanding of the specific engines hp and torque curves is fundamental in utilizing the engine to it's utmost. The end result will be a function of optimizing those curves with specific gearing.

The original example..a tie methinks.
__________________
Because you see it as a crisis, does not mean I do.
OhMagoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2006, 18:35   #29
mickyTDI
Veteran Member
 
mickyTDI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Longford, Ireland
Default

Heres something interesting though, I know someone with a TDI with 213bhp at the flywheel and on the same rolling road a gasser (1.8T 245bhp). They had a bit of a play on a motorway with speeds of between 70mph to 130mph and the TDI could keep up..... Both good drivers. The TDI has more torque but less peak bhp and only revs to 4750 until redline.
__________________
2017 VW Passat 2.0 BiTDI 288.4bhp CUAA
mickyTDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2006, 21:09   #30
Bob_Fout
Oil Wanker
 
Bob_Fout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Indiana
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnecr
I realize that those gas engines are made to rev higher than our TDIs but I think you may also agree that hitting redline on a daily basis is not the best thing for said engines. Whereas it's not a big deal for our TDIs because our redline is so low... Then again, you may disagree..
I agree not the best, but it doesn't do any harm either. Temporary high revs on a daily basis with a warm engine and proper oil shouldn't make a hoot of a difference. That's probably better than babying it.

I would surmise that for a forced air induction gas engine similar rules apply to it as our TDI. Rev it with gusto and rev it up, but don't cruise at high RPMs.
__________________
2003 Jetta TDI (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
Photos | Mods | CJ-4 Oils | Oil Analysis | Stage II Cam
Bob_Fout is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.19929 seconds with 11 queries
[Output: 131.90 Kb. compressed to 110.20 Kb. by saving 21.70 Kb. (16.45%)]