A safe buy? Which MY to get...?

35mphgolf · Feb 26, 2014

So I searched and couldn't find anything, but I'm looking to get a MKIV TDI - not to start a firestorm, but is there a general consensus on which model year(s) is best?

I'm currently looking at a 2005 Golf TDI 5sp, and I wasn't sure if there were any mechanical nuances I should look out for... is 2005 a safe year or is 2003 going to be a better year - etc..? Its got fairly low miles... 80,000 I believe.

Thanks for the help!

35mphgolf · Feb 26, 2014

So after reading a wiki - the 2004-05s were the PD engine, where they received direct injection. Does this mean these cars have carbon build up issues?

Golf GLS TDI · Feb 26, 2014

I am kinda new to the game also, but back when I was lookingto buy a TDI, my friends who own TDI's steered me towards the ALH, 99.5-03 manual shift only. Now I own 2.

35mphgolf · Feb 26, 2014

Nice. So after more reading (google was great), I see that the ALH engine is more reliable, but is it really THAT much more reliable? I cant imagine that big of a difference between the ALH and PD engines. Any fuel efficiency differences between them? I'd imagine the PD gets the advantage with direct injection...

trailhead · Feb 26, 2014

I'm no expert,

I choose PD over ALH. More powerful, less vibration. They're both very reliable but, the PD's have some more expensive parts, if they fail. IMO, they better performance is worth the higher maintenance costs.

dieseldorf · Feb 26, 2014

35, they're all direct injection. The cars from 2004 thru 2006 utilize a different injection system that is now discontinued. They might have cam wear issues but it's not a crazy expense to repair if encountered. The auto trans in these car is also superior.

Avoid any automatic car from 1998 - 2003.

The 2002-2003 cars fitted with a MANual transmission are considered best of breed and probably knock down the biggest fuel economy. However, these cars are getting tired and rusty by this point in time and that may be a turn off for many.

Welcome aboard, 35 !!

35mphgolf · Feb 26, 2014

Guys/gals thanks for keeping it civil and super duper informative!

I actually had a 2011 TDI DSG for a while, loved it, but needed more power. So trailhead I'm with you - i'm always in favor of power over maintenance and reliability (so long as its proportional)!

russianrhino · Feb 27, 2014

It all depends what you're looking for. I like killer fuel economy and rock solid reliability, power doesn't interested me too much. In my case, the ideal car is a 2003 Jetta wagon with a 5 speed. They only made them for 2 years (02 and 03) and all the wagons were made in Germany, resulting in an overall higher quality car. I'd take the ALH motor over the PD. Though the PD has more power, it gets less MPG's than an ALH, and is guaranteed to have the cam fail. ALH was the best designed engine IMO, with proper fuilds, filters, and timing belt changes will run half a million miles at least.

jeff_vapelane · Feb 27, 2014

russianrhino said:
I'd take the ALH motor over the PD. Though the PD has more power, it gets less MPG's than an ALH, and is guaranteed to have the cam fail. ALH was the best designed engine IMO, with proper fuilds, filters, and timing belt changes will run half a million miles at least.

Guaranteed? I'm no veteran with TDI engines but as far as I know, as long as the proper oil was used throughout its whole life, the camshaft wouldn't fail.

BobnOH · Feb 27, 2014

A4- 2003 (MT only) 2004, 2005.
wagon or 2-door

russianrhino · Feb 27, 2014

jeff_vapelane said:
Guaranteed? I'm no veteran with TDI engines but as far as I know, as long as the proper oil was used throughout its whole life, the camshaft wouldn't fail.

I guess its not guaranteed per se, but definitely something one should fully expect with a PD. I've heard of people even with proper oil changes and maintenance to the tee have theirs wear prematurely. Its also not an immediate fail, more like death by a thousand cuts failing little by little. Just my $.02.

The advise is worth what you paid for it.

hskrdu · Feb 27, 2014

turbocharged798 · Feb 27, 2014

russianrhino said:
It all depends what you're looking for. I like killer fuel economy and rock solid reliability, power doesn't interested me too much. In my case, the ideal car is a 2003 Jetta wagon with a 5 speed. They only made them for 2 years (02 and 03) and all the wagons were made in Germany, resulting in an overall higher quality car. I'd take the ALH motor over the PD. Though the PD has more power, it gets less MPG's than an ALH, and is guaranteed to have the cam fail. ALH was the best designed engine IMO, with proper fuilds, filters, and timing belt changes will run half a million miles at least.

First off, German made VWs are no more quality than others. This has been proven over and over. There is no difference other than the sticker that says were its built.

Secondly, there are many PD engines running with 300K+ on OE cams.

Third, the engine may last forever, but the car sure as hell won't when you live in the rust belt.

hskrdu · Feb 27, 2014

OP is in Virginia, though. My Golf looks much nicer after spending so many years in Maryland, and when I see used Mark IV's down there F/S, they really look great. The body of the IV (and newer) seems so hold up so much better than previous, don't you think?

Agree on GER vs MEX. My Golf has been trouble free, and most Mark IV complaints rarely seem to stem from point of origin.

LNXGUY · Feb 27, 2014

35mphgolf said:
So after reading a wiki - the 2004-05s were the PD engine, where they received direct injection. Does this mean these cars have carbon build up issues?

All TDI's are 'direct injection'.. As for the PD's, I'd stay away from the BRM in the MKV cars, but obviously the BEW in the MKIV's isn't much of a concern with me

Great power as well with just a tune compared to an ALH. FE is definitely better on the ALH cars, I would guess 3-4MPG better on average.

IndigoBlueWagon · Feb 27, 2014

I'm partial to rotary pump cars, but a BEW with an upgraded turbo, tune, and exhaust (and maybe an upgraded intercooler) is going to make 150+ WHP with minimal sacrifices in economy or durability. I'm a big fan of the MKIV platform and love my ALH, but I wouldn't necessarily run away from a BEW.

WardB · Feb 27, 2014

When VW went with 'unit injectors' (cam operated injectors mounted within the injector assembly), I read from a non-automotive source that they were going 'in-house' to avoid cost of r&r or buying common rail technology.

At that time, common rail diesel fuel delivery was widely (universally?) considered as the system of choice. VW also avoided development of newer that VE injection pumps. Diesel guys (naturally outside this board) look at a PD (jet pump) with a VE IP and wonder that happened to German technology?

Today, VW is using CR for fuel delivery.

35mphgolf · Feb 28, 2014

Good night y'all didn't hold back! Sweet as!

Well I've worked it out with the guy and I'm picking it up next Friday! Can't say I'm super stoked - it means I have to sell my '04 BMW ZHP. I know most people (including myself) would call that crazy, but long term is we're trying to save as much money as possible to buy a bunch of land. I know I could've got a $900 beater but I love driving too much to do that to myself... I also miss diesel

I had a 2011 Golf TDI DSG for a bit, but ended up trading it for a Golf R (VW bought it back under lemon law - http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5874113-My-Lemon-R-build-thread&highlight=lemon+build), and I've been loving the last year and a half in the ZHP.

Thanks all for the input. After all the research and checking the availability - I'm gettin' an 05 Golf TDI 5sp with 78,000 miles for $10.4k. I thought it was a great deal. The interior and exterior are in super duper condition. Well maintained too!

Perfectreign · Feb 28, 2014

dieseldorf said:
However, these cars are getting tired and rusty by this point in time and that may be a turn off for many.

Rusty? Ha!

I've only used my wipers today for the second time since I bought the 2000 back in July!

To the OP, I decided on an ALH engine for the pure simplicity. I wanted a high mileage fairly reliable and comfortable commuter car. My only complaint thus far is with the noise in the cabin at normal highway speeds (75-85mPH). I will be looking at some sound deadening process in the next year.

30_Yr_Dsl_Veteran · Feb 28, 2014

I am inclined to believe: the newer the better!

Curious Chris · Mar 1, 2014

I vote for the 1999.5-2003 ALH with 5 speed manual transmision. The ALH engine is cheap to upgrade and I have 254,000 miles on mine.

Stay away from the automatic transmissions in this year range as they were the achille's heal. Put a Relay 109 in your glove box as VW never quite figured out how to keep it from failing and when it fails the car will not start. Ask me how I know......

35mphgolf · Mar 1, 2014

From what I read ALH is preferable, but that's just not an option - no availability that match my requirements (lower mileage and 5 speed, well maintained and in good condition). And from what I've read, its not like the BEW engine ISN'T reliable, it's just not AS reliable: but it's still friggin reliable.

Besides, it has more power, and thats far more important to me than a 2-4 MPG gain. Yeah you can tune an ALH, you can also tune a BEW and you're still going to be making more power: so that argument is moot.

On Friday I'll be picking up the one I mentioned in post #18

I'm gettin' an 05 Golf TDI 5sp with 78,000 miles for $10.4k. I thought it was a great deal. The interior and exterior are in super duper condition. Well maintained too!

IndigoBlueWagon · Mar 1, 2014

Both ALH and BEWs can be modified to the 200 HP range without a lot of difficulty. The BEW will get in the 150 HP range for less money than an ALH, but after that the ALH is less expensive because higher flowing injectors for the PDs are expensive.

Either way, the BEW is a good engine.

35mphgolf · Mar 2, 2014

uh oh - so I see a 2002 Jetta GLS Wagon 5sp with 105,000 miles for $1500 less than what I'd be paying for the BEW Golf... (Golf=$10,000 Jetta=$8,500)

Is the PD really that much more fun to drive than the ALH?

In a conundrum here - cause either way: I'll be picking up one either of these two vehicles on Friday!

nicklockard · Mar 2, 2014

35mphgolf said:
Good night y'all didn't hold back! Sweet as!

Well I've worked it out with the guy and I'm picking it up next Friday! Can't say I'm super stoked - it means I have to sell my '04 BMW ZHP. I know most people (including myself) would call that crazy, but long term is we're trying to save as much money as possible to buy a bunch of land. I know I could've got a $900 beater but I love driving too much to do that to myself... I also miss diesel I had a 2011 Golf TDI DSG for a bit, but ended up trading it for a Golf R (VW bought it back under lemon law - http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5874113-My-Lemon-R-build-thread&highlight=lemon+build), and I've been loving the last year and a half in the ZHP.

Thanks all for the input. After all the research and checking the availability - I'm gettin' an 05 Golf TDI 5sp with 78,000 miles for $10.4k. I thought it was a great deal. The interior and exterior are in super duper condition. Well maintained too!

Oof! It pains me that folks like you are paying 10K for a nearly 10 year old car with obsolete components, but I will also say that you will probably be happy with it. A brand new Versa, Yaris, or a lightly used Fit would cost less to own and operate, but you will get the yummy torque of a Tdi.

nicklockard · Mar 2, 2014

35mphgolf said:
uh oh - so I see a 2002 Jetta GLS Wagon 5sp with 105,000 miles for $1500 less than what I'd be paying for the BEW Golf... (Golf=$10,000 Jetta=$8,500)

Is the PD really that much more fun to drive than the ALH?

In a conundrum here - cause either way: I'll be picking up one either of these two vehicles on Friday!

No, the ALH is more fun to drive (torquier) but the PD is more refined.

LNXGUY · Mar 2, 2014

nicklockard said:
No, the ALH is more fun to drive (torquier) but the PD is more refined.

In stock form they are both slow as balls.. The PD actually makes more torque, lol.

IndigoBlueWagon · Mar 3, 2014

At the age and price you're looking at it's more important to consider condition an care the car's received than which engine you get. Either can be neglected and cost a lot to bring back into condition. I have a rule of thumb that most older TDIs require about $2K in catch-up maintenance and repairs to be brought up to 100%. Timing belt service, suspension, bushings, brakes perhaps, tires, and usually some surprise repair like a camshaft in the PD or turbo in the ALH. At the prices you're paying I would expect the car to be perfect, but I bet they're not.

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