Golf runs great but overboosts...Nothing seems to fix it! Please help me

golfere

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Location
sacramento
TDI
04 golf
I dont know what else this car could have (2006 BEW) ended up replacing the blown turbo with a genuine turbo i pulled out of my wrecked 2004 bew (had around 80k on it but ran great before totaled)

Actuator holds vacuum and is clean and smooth; i checked n75 control by taking the middle vacuum line and hooking up my mityvac and it holds vacuum; did the vcds output tests and seems great; car is stock and pulls hard and drives great; i log in meas blocks 11 and it shows boost spikes at 38psi:confused:


Maybe i didnt check the control valve properly? It shows 5.7% duty cycle and then goes up to 80% in the output test for VAG-COM once its done
 

Vince Waldon

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Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
i log in meas blocks 11 and it shows boost spikes at 38psi:confused:
VCDS (and the ECU for that matter) work in terms of *absolute* manifold pressure... so there's 14.7 psi (or thereabouts, depending on your altitude and local weather conditions) of atmospheric pressure included in that 38 psi reading.

In terms of your actuator: it's important that it starts and (most importantly) stops at the right vaccum readings: 3-5" to start moving and touching the stop screw at about 18". You'll need a vacuum pump with a gauge to check.. adjustments are done by turning the threaded actuator arm.
 

golfere

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Jul 6, 2017
Location
sacramento
TDI
04 golf
Ah thats a relief! im in California so about 200 altitude is normal id say

Ive found that my actuator needed to be set all the way maxed out to the top (nut is on the tip of the rod) in order to avoid anything over 38psi

When i hooked up my vacuum pump and had it cracking open around 4" and stopping at 18" it would overboost bigtime which worried me


My last idea is maybe the vanes need to be cleaned again? (I dont remember this turbo having sticky vanes as my last one did though)
 

AndyBees

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Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Not a BEW, but I experienced over boost with the ALH engine in my Vanagon. With a mild Stage 1 tune, from time to time it would spike up to 25 PSI which is max on the VDO gauge I'm using. 16 to 17 PSI should be normal for the tune.

Long story short, I installed a new replacement MAP sensor, problem solved.
 

golfere

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Location
sacramento
TDI
04 golf
Not a BEW, but I experienced over boost with the ALH engine in my Vanagon. With a mild Stage 1 tune, from time to time it would spike up to 25 PSI which is max on the VDO gauge I'm using. 16 to 17 PSI should be normal for the tune.

Long story short, I installed a new replacement MAP sensor, problem solved.

I will also look into this as being a problem; thanks Andy!
 

golfere

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Location
sacramento
TDI
04 golf
VCDS (and the ECU for that matter) work in terms of *absolute* manifold pressure... so there's 14.7 psi (or thereabouts, depending on your altitude and local weather conditions) of atmospheric pressure included in that 38 psi reading.
In terms of your actuator: it's important that it starts and (most importantly) stops at the right vaccum readings: 3-5" to start moving and touching the stop screw at about 18". You'll need a vacuum pump with a gauge to check.. adjustments are done by turning the threaded actuator arm.

How do you calculate what the actual boost is?


Right now my actuator is stopping way after 20" but it was the only way to get it not overboost so much!
 

Vince Waldon

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
How do you calculate what the actual boost is?
Google the weather station at the Sacramento Executive Airport, which will tell you the current barometric pressure in mbar.

Google "convert XXXXX.X mbar to psi" to convert that local barometric pressure in psi. (looks like it's right around 14.7 psi today :) )

Subtract that from whatever VCDS says the absolute pressure is. :)
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
..................
When i hooked up my vacuum pump and had it cracking open around 4" and stopping at 18" it would overboost bigtime which worried me
That's right where it should be and the rod moves the vanes, so if it travels smooth they're not sticking.
The actuator is fine at 4"/hg, it's a single fixed adjustment so the high number is really just a check.
I say move along to the next item of concern.
 

golfere

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Location
sacramento
TDI
04 golf
The thing is when i adjust it to where the nut is topped out and there are no more threads showing it runs at a lower overboost; could this be a sign of sticking vanes?
 

wonneber

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Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
The thing is when i adjust it to where the nut is topped out and there are no more threads showing it runs at a lower overboost; could this be a sign of sticking vanes?
Possibly.
Take the actuator off, its 2 nuts, a hose, and the clip on the arm.
There's a VW bulletin about rusting inside it. Turn it over and see what shakes out or you hear rust loose inside it.

While it's out you can work the arm going into the turbo.
I've you can move it back & forth full range for about 5 minutes to break up the carbon inside it.

If you log the requested boost and the actual the max difference should be less then 5 pounds and if its more for a few seconds (maybe 4) that will trip the over / under boost code.
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
I've never made an Actuator Arm adjustment. But, having numerous Turbos apart for cleaning, it is obvious there is an internal maximum that the Vane "sweep" can be adjusted in either direction. Internally, it will bottom out against a guide pin/roller (for a lack of a better term). The external set screw stop, is typically set where that internally nothing bottoms out.. very slightly off bottoming. For all those with paint on that screw, I've never found one that was set that allowed it to bottom internally (almost fully closed Vanes).

So, a maximum adjustment in either direction will not fully close or fully open the Vanes as a result of internal design. Also, as I understand the mechanism, considering there is no by-pass for the expanding gases, it's the directional angle of the Vanes that provides boost. Sort of like holding your finger over the end of a garden hose. When you shut down the normal flow of water to a small stream it comes out blasting............ with the optimum angle, it can apply some strong force.

I know this has been a subject of debate in several Threads. When the engine is started, the Actuator pulls the arm fully down to the set-screw, which results in almost closing the Vanes. That angle of the Vanes doesn't shoot the expanding gases onto the Turbine blades at the best angle to provide any significant boost, thus, virtually zero boost at idle (based on my boost gauge, at idle RPMs, there is a slight vacuum). As the RPMs are increased (with load), the Actuator moves the Vanes to the optimum angle increasing boost as necessary. Simply put, as demand (load on the engine) is increased, the Actuator moves the Vanes to increase boost and as load drops or maximum RPMs are reached (or before), boost will drop off. This scenario is very obvious with a dash mounted Boost Gauge.

So, it would seem to me that an over boost is not totally related to how far the Actuator Arm is adjusted up or down, but more with the free sweep of the Vanes in their normal range of operation. Thus, if there is only a momentary stop/hang/sticky of the Vanes in the scheme of things (acceleration), there can be an over-boost followed by an under-boost or visa versa.

If you have a Boost Gauge to observed, you would be amazed to see the instant response of just simply tapping the accelerator. It's really amazing. So, obviously, if there's one thing in the scheme of things not working properly, the ECU is going to catch it.

Also, as I think I previously stated, a faulty MAP sensor can play hell with boost. I put up with it for 6 months before I finally installed a new one.

Just how I see it.
 

golfere

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Location
sacramento
TDI
04 golf
Possibly.
Take the actuator off, its 2 nuts, a hose, and the clip on the arm.
There's a VW bulletin about rusting inside it. Turn it over and see what shakes out or you hear rust loose inside it.
While it's out you can work the arm going into the turbo.
I've you can move it back & forth full range for about 5 minutes to break up the carbon inside it.
If you log the requested boost and the actual the max difference should be less then 5 pounds and if its more for a few seconds (maybe 4) that will trip the over / under boost code.

I know for a fact my actuator is not rusted inside; i have the BEW model so its fairly easy to remove and replace from underneath (but it holds vacuum just fine and looks to be in new condition) so??


I will test the linkage again to confirm and i will also post some logs on here to show whats going on as those are always good


appreciate the help! stay tuned!:D
 

golfere

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Location
sacramento
TDI
04 golf
I've never made an Actuator Arm adjustment. But, having numerous Turbos apart for cleaning, it is obvious there is an internal maximum that the Vane "sweep" can be adjusted in either direction. Internally, it will bottom out against a guide pin/roller (for a lack of a better term). The external set screw stop, is typically set where that internally nothing bottoms out.. very slightly off bottoming. For all those with paint on that screw, I've never found one that was set that allowed it to bottom internally (almost fully closed Vanes).

So, a maximum adjustment in either direction will not fully close or fully open the Vanes as a result of internal design. Also, as I understand the mechanism, considering there is no by-pass for the expanding gases, it's the directional angle of the Vanes that provides boost. Sort of like holding your finger over the end of a garden hose. When you shut down the normal flow of water to a small stream it comes out blasting............ with the optimum angle, it can apply some strong force.

I know this has been a subject of debate in several Threads. When the engine is started, the Actuator pulls the arm fully down to the set-screw, which results in almost closing the Vanes. That angle of the Vanes doesn't shoot the expanding gases onto the Turbine blades at the best angle to provide any significant boost, thus, virtually zero boost at idle (based on my boost gauge, at idle RPMs, there is a slight vacuum). As the RPMs are increased (with load), the Actuator moves the Vanes to the optimum angle increasing boost as necessary. Simply put, as demand (load on the engine) is increased, the Actuator moves the Vanes to increase boost and as load drops or maximum RPMs are reached (or before), boost will drop off. This scenario is very obvious with a dash mounted Boost Gauge.

So, it would seem to me that an over boost is not totally related to how far the Actuator Arm is adjusted up or down, but more with the free sweep of the Vanes in their normal range of operation. Thus, if there is only a momentary stop/hang/sticky of the Vanes in the scheme of things (acceleration), there can be an over-boost followed by an under-boost or visa versa.

If you have a Boost Gauge to observed, you would be amazed to see the instant response of just simply tapping the accelerator. It's really amazing. So, obviously, if there's one thing in the scheme of things not working properly, the ECU is going to catch it.

Also, as I think I previously stated, a faulty MAP sensor can play hell with boost. I put up with it for 6 months before I finally installed a new one.

Just how I see it.

Good advice; I have yet to check my MAP sensor and will look into that also!
 

golfere

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Location
sacramento
TDI
04 golf
Could it be the my actuator is faulty even though it holds vacuum? Im looking at the logs as posted above and im not sure its supposed to be fluctuating so much right?
 

eddieleephd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Battle Ground, Wa
TDI
2002 jetta Wagon
It's easier to look at the logs if you post them through Malone's website.

Yes your actuator can be bad, at least the electric sensor can.

From everything I've read in the post, you're making a huge mistake not looking at the MAP and verifying it.

I have a boost/egt gauge and can see what's different between actual and reported.

If you have a bad map it could be under boosting and reporting over boosting.

If the overboost is within 100pa to 150pa of requested in the log it's within spec.

I don't adjust the actuator by a vacuum gauge except for the initial, I adjust to the logs.
Log then adjust then repeat.

Could try pulling the plug on the actuator and see what changes.
From what I've read and heard the plug is to help the engine correct the boost, that can be faulty as well.

My question is do you go into limp mode at all?

Big deal to check out the MAP sensor and ensure it is good.
You could have to get back in and adjust the actuator back if you replace it and it was the issue the whole time.

Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

Tdijarhead

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Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
So how does he test his MAP? I have an ultragauge on my car and I can read my MAP.

Is there a vcds test for it?
 

eddieleephd

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Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Battle Ground, Wa
TDI
2002 jetta Wagon
So how does he test his MAP? I have an ultragauge on my car and I can read my MAP.

Is there a vcds test for it?
I would test resistance on a known good one, even if I did it at the auto store and compare it to mine like he does in the first link below.
Pull it out and see if you see an issue.

Testing a MAP
https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5583889-1-8t-map-sensor-resistance#/topics/5583889

Map mod
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=207336

Turbo info
https://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/turbocharger-vnt-and-diesel-turbo-faq/


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Last edited:

golfere

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Location
sacramento
TDI
04 golf
It's easier to look at the logs if you post them through Malone's website.
My question is do you go into limp mode at all?
Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk
I just posted a photo also of the log; i need help understanding how to read this...does the actuator look faulty or maybe having sticky vanes?


No limp mode at all and the car really pulls if you press the pedal
Im just worried about overboost so ive been driving soft





I am looking into the MAP now; much appreciated!
 

golfere

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Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Location
sacramento
TDI
04 golf
Had the MAP checked from a local vw owner and he said its fine; He also suggested on checking the vanes and the actuator

But if the actuator holds vacuum and cycles through VCDS could it still be faulty?

The graph shows significant drops and rises with it but??
 

eddieleephd

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Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Battle Ground, Wa
TDI
2002 jetta Wagon
Yes, the actuator is a funny little Bastard.
Usually though, it's related to the turbo getting sticky.

I definitely think you need to pull the circlip and actuate the lever with your hand to feel what's going on with it.

The lever generally tells what's up when you move it.
It should move easily and freely, otherwise, it's worn or gunked up.

Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk
 

eddieleephd

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Location
Battle Ground, Wa
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2002 jetta Wagon

golfere

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Jul 6, 2017
Location
sacramento
TDI
04 golf
Yes, the actuator is a funny little Bastard.
Usually though, it's related to the turbo getting sticky.

I definitely think you need to pull the circlip and actuate the lever with your hand to feel what's going on with it.

The lever generally tells what's up when you move it.
It should move easily and freely, otherwise, it's worn or gunked up.

Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk

Will check that when i get back in town friday; thanks for the confirmation!

heres a log i had posted to malones site

http://log.malonetuning.com/chart/2...Pw6Bgw6whw64mdcOLbMONwo9TCCfCtzzDpifCjwAAAA==
 

MarkQuiz

Member
Joined
May 30, 2018
Location
Central California
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon 5spd Malone Stage 2.5
I have a 2005 BEW Jetta wagon Jetta that had an overboost issue and car goes into limp mode, I found out that my intake pipe was loose (the pipe close to the egr) locking mechanism was worned out so I replaced the pipe with a new one and it fixed my overboost issue
 

eddieleephd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Battle Ground, Wa
TDI
2002 jetta Wagon
Usually the boost log is done from 2nd to 4th and I recommend manually shifting it.

Try to pick a good on ramp that has less traffic and starting in second accelerate to redline then shift up.

I like to see 2nd at start, 3rd all the way through and what happens at the bottom of 4th.

This way I can see sticking veins and such.
What have you done about checking vacuum and the n75?

Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk
 

gforce1108

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Newburgh, NY
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04 Jetta GLS BEW, 14 Audi A7 V6 TDI, 13 Porsche Cayenne V6 TDI
I was helping a buddy with his ALH this weekend with an overboosting problem. I figured I could do the "normal" tests and let him know what he needed to order - didn't work out that way.

I did the N75 output test - good
Checked actuator with a mighty vac - open/stop at correct point and VNT nice and smooth.
Vacuum from pump better than minimum (and I replaced all vacuum lines a few years ago)
Logged a run - MAF / MAP both working, but definitely overboosted at WOT in 4th

I put a new catalytic convertor/downpipe on a few years ago and I also cleaned the intake when I did the timing belt less than 50k ago.

Read through all the non-standard causes (intake or exhaust clogging seemed to be the culprits) and decided to pull the EGR to look at intake buildup. There was about 1/4" or maybe a little more buildup. Since I had it open, I cleaned out as much as I could while vacuuming with a shop vac - quick clean on the EGR too.

Took it for another run and no more overboost... I still can't believe that it was the cause. My identical 03 wagon has the same problem, but the intake has not been cleaned in close to 200k (if the dealer cleaned it when the motor was rebuild around 100k) so that's next on my list.
 

golfere

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Location
sacramento
TDI
04 golf
I have a 2005 BEW Jetta wagon Jetta that had an overboost issue and car goes into limp mode, I found out that my intake pipe was loose (the pipe close to the egr) locking mechanism was worned out so I replaced the pipe with a new one and it fixed my overboost issue


You are saying to use the collar mount on the intake? Not sure if mine is worn out yet...
 

golfere

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Location
sacramento
TDI
04 golf
Usually the boost log is done from 2nd to 4th and I recommend manually shifting it.

Try to pick a good on ramp that has less traffic and starting in second accelerate to redline then shift up.

I like to see 2nd at start, 3rd all the way through and what happens at the bottom of 4th.

This way I can see sticking veins and such.
What have you done about checking vacuum and the n75?

Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk


Well i took the car up on the lift and removed actuator and found that the very top of the lever sticks!! How long would it take to remove the turbo from under the car? I have sprayed with oven cleaner recently on a tdi and had decent results but on mine id like to know its been done right you know?

Will also update logs and post as you said! thanks!
 

golfere

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Location
sacramento
TDI
04 golf
I was helping a buddy with his ALH this weekend with an overboosting problem. I figured I could do the "normal" tests and let him know what he needed to order - didn't work out that way.

I did the N75 output test - good
Checked actuator with a mighty vac - open/stop at correct point and VNT nice and smooth.
Vacuum from pump better than minimum (and I replaced all vacuum lines a few years ago)
Logged a run - MAF / MAP both working, but definitely overboosted at WOT in 4th

I put a new catalytic convertor/downpipe on a few years ago and I also cleaned the intake when I did the timing belt less than 50k ago.

Read through all the non-standard causes (intake or exhaust clogging seemed to be the culprits) and decided to pull the EGR to look at intake buildup. There was about 1/4" or maybe a little more buildup. Since I had it open, I cleaned out as much as I could while vacuuming with a shop vac - quick clean on the EGR too.

Took it for another run and no more overboost... I still can't believe that it was the cause. My identical 03 wagon has the same problem, but the intake has not been cleaned in close to 200k (if the dealer cleaned it when the motor was rebuild around 100k) so that's next on my list.

I had my intake manifold and egr cleaned less than 1k miles so its not that :/
 

eddieleephd

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Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Battle Ground, Wa
TDI
2002 jetta Wagon
It takes about an hour longer to remove and replace the turbo than if you remove the intake manifold due to having to work around it and torque it down.

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