Using rear fog light as second brake light

BruhahaX

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I just did this mod and it works great, now I have 5 brake lights versus 3 brake lights. Not too much brighter as I had my buddy drive behind me and check to make sure im not blinding others with this mod, just more eye catching. I highly recommend this mod, it took me 10 minutes and $4 dollars as I had most of the materials laying around.

Second brake light install
 

gern_blanston

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Very cool mod. I'm trying to figger out how to set up a diode so that I can run just the rear fog on the left with the fog switch and still get both rear fogs to come on with the brake lights.
 

PackRat

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1998 A3 Jetta TDI
I did the same thing. I did some observations with the brakes applied and it was no brighter than the brake lamp. I find that 4 brake lamps will be more useful to me than a rear fog lamp.
 

BawlsyTDI

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jetta, someday a getta, 2001, baltic green
Originally posted by gern_blanston:
Very cool mod. I'm trying to figger out how to set up a diode so that I can run just the rear fog on the left with the fog switch and still get both rear fogs to come on with the brake lights.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you tap into the rear light wire, you can run a switch to the fog and another from the brake to the fog. Switch one on, and you get rear fogs, switch it off and the other on, you get brake lights.
 

gern_blanston

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Yeah, but I want both fogs to come on when I hit the brakes, but only the left one (and not the left brake light) to come on when I turn on the rear fog. It's only legal to have one rear fog on the driver's side in Oregon. A diode should do the trick so that the rear fog switch will light the left rear fog but not the left brake light. Anybody know what diode to use and where to find one?
 

avusblue

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Minneapolis
I did this mod too, its very easy (took 10 mins) and makes a big difference in lighting. VW should just sell the cars this way in the US!
 

JettaJake

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'03 GLS 5spd
Is set-up essentially the same on an A4 Jetta? If it is, I'm there! -- definitely a cool, simple mod.

Bawlsy, caravaning with you to Mass last month, I thought you had a bad light back there


JJ
 

BruhahaX

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This setup will work on the A4 Golf/Jetta and I think the B5 Passat as well.
 

MOGolf

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If you made use of the search function, you'd find all the information. This was hashed over nearly 2 years ago.

If you tap into the rear light wire, you can run a switch to the fog and another from the brake to the fog. Switch one on, and you get rear fogs, switch it off and the other on, you get brake lights.
This would get you a flashing glow plug light, an inoperative cruise control, and all brake lights on when you turned on the fog light.

As I said above, use the search function and you'll find how at least one person did wire their's to have the fogs as fogs and brakes.

As for the claim that "only the left" is allowed for a fog light, I would like to see a link to a government site saying that. There are foreign makes that have fog lights on both sides and I am not aware of them being banned from the streets of Oregon.
 

gern_blanston

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Tried search, and didn't find anything useful. I'll post if I figger out how to do it.
 

BawlsyTDI

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BTW, when I tapped into my cars rear light wire at the back of the car, I got no CEL's or Flashing GP's. As long as only one switch is on at a time, you should not have any problems. Since I have yet to try it, time will tell weither switches will work or not
 

MITBeta

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2001 Jetta TDI, 2004 Sprinter CDI Passenger (Mid/High), former: 1996 Passat TDI Variant
I was going to mention that BRBarian used a relay to produce a multi-function rear brake/fog light... but MOGolf already posted the link...
 

MOGolf

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Finding those links made for good practise in using the new search feature. I still had to go through many pages of results to pick them out. I hope I picked out the best ones with the information needed.
 

Michael Moore

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2004 Phaeton W12, 2015 Golf Highline (gas)
Oh boy - another thread about modifying lighting at the rear of the car.

I have some concerns about whether or not it is a good idea to do this. Please keep an open mind, this is just my opinion, and I'm posting it to share it with you and give you some food for thought, not to shove it down your throat.

One of the few good things that has come out of all the government regulation of the automobile industry in the last 30 years has been standardization of some key specifications for external appearance of what you could call "warning lights" (brake lights, turn signals, clearance lights, etc.) on all vehicles.

The specs themselves are very lengthy, and I won't repeat them here, but suffice to say that the reason you get the same "warning signal" - by this I mean the same colour of the warning light, same position of the light, same range of visibility of the light, and same intensity of the light - on all cars out there is because all of the above mentioned items are very precisely spec'ed out.

If we, as owners, change the apperance of these lights that are used by others, (we don't look at our own external warning lights), we risk causing all sorts of safety problems on the road. First is increased reaction time from other drivers, as they try to figure out what the "different" light signal means. In addition, we can cause vision difficulties for others (think about older drivers whose eyes might not recover so rapidly from the increased light intensity, particularily if they have been sitting behind your car at a traffic light for a while).

Fog light lenses are designed to send an intense and narrowly focused beam of light straight back behind the car. Brake light lenses are designed to spread out a more diffused beam of light, while still meeting an international spec for light intensity radiated straight back. If you consider that the bulb in the fog light is at least twice as bright as a brake light, and all that light is concentrated in one direction... well, you get the idea.

My own feeling is that when we modify our cars (and I really like modifying my car), we need to consider which modifications might have a negative impact on other motorists we share the road with. Although at first glance, the idea of increasing the intensity of the brake lights might sound like a good idea, when you think about the negative safety impact this modification has, it kind of loses its attractivness. Or, to put it another way, the kid with the blue turn signals on his Honda thinks the look is sharp, but the hundreds of drivers who look at his turn signal every day and have to take the extra time to figure out what that visual signal means are probably less impressed.

Like I said at the beginning, I'm only posting this to give those who are considering the mod some food for thought, I'm not dissing those who have done it, and I certainly am not trying to start a flame war.

Michael
 

Tom Servo

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Michael brings up a point that I pondered before doing the brake-light mod. With a standard light bulb it is rather bright.

In my case, I happened to have two white LED bulbs laying around that fit the socket. They were originally for the turn signals but were a) too dim and b) caused the turn signals to flash rapidly. SO... Being too dim for the main brake lights, I put them in the fog light positions. With the focusing, they are no brighter than the incadescent brake lights, a little bit redder and illuminate as quickly as the LED bar light. The focusing seems to make them shine brighest just where a tailgater might be behind me!


(this raises the question on how safe having lights that illuminate at two different speeds are for brake signals, but heck if the bar light can be LED and light fast, why not some more brake lights?)
 

Variant TDI

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Michael does have a good point.

Which begs this question.

Why do US spec Jetta Variants use the Rear Foglight position as their turn signals? Why would the Jetta Variant be the only VW that has red turn signals? Why not use the Euro Tail lights with the Amber position?
 

gern_blanston

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Golf, '03, Silver
The rear fogs use the same bulbs as the brake lights, and they seem to have the same brightness.
To agree with Mr. Moore, most people in the US probably don't recognize a rear fog if they see one. I'm still waiting for someone to pull up beside me on a foggy night and tell me one of my tail lights is out because I have my rear fog on.
 

Variant TDI

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As was mentioned earlier, the rear fog position in the brakelights has a different reflector than a brake light. They may have the same wattage and color (similar to my High and Low beams...) but they certainly don't throw the same light.
 

PackRat

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1998 A3 Jetta TDI
Fog light lenses are designed to send an intense and narrowly focused beam of light straight back behind the car. Brake light lenses are designed to spread out a more diffused beam of light, while still meeting an international spec for light intensity radiated straight back. If you consider that the bulb in the fog light is at least twice as bright as a brake light, and all that light is concentrated in one direction... well, you get the idea.
I must disagree. I have found that the rear fog pattern to be NO different than the brake pattern. I wired mine up thinking the inner lamps would be brighter than the outer lamps. They are not. The beam is as diffuse as the brake lamp. It's my opinion that the rear fog lamp is designed as nothing more than a bright tail lamp. The bulb in the fog lamp is NOT twice as bright as the brake lamp, it's the same 21 watt filament.

There's PLENTY of cars out there with 4 rear facing brake lamps. The Lexus GS series sedans, in fact, use the Euro-market rear fog lamps AS brake lamps.
 

avusblue

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Location
Minneapolis
I'm with PackRat. All 4 of my rear brake lights (2 stock plus 2 fog) really appear to be the same brightness, diffusion, and "throw" -- whether viewed straight-on or at an angle. They really look like they could have been just wired as brake lights from the factory. Nothing confusing about it. (BTW, my car is a 2003 Puebla built A4 Jetta sedan).

I think its a great mod -- more light should better alert the half-asleep tailgater behind me in stop-and-go traffic.
 

natebg

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Michael does have a good point.

Which begs this question.

Why do US spec Jetta Variants use the Rear Foglight position as their turn signals? Why would the Jetta Variant be the only VW that has red turn signals? Why not use the Euro Tail lights with the Amber position?
I have wondered this myself, and will probably be changing this on my car once I get it to rear fog in rear fog position and amber turn signals...,

should be here later this week...was at port last week...
 

Michael Moore

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AvusBlue:

Interesting point you raise about all 4 lights on the back of your Jetta looking the same. Perhaps there are two different bulbs that can be fitted into the foglight position on the Jetta - one being a normal brake light bulb, the other being what is used for a rear fog? I'm honestly not sure about this, because I have a Golf and not a Jetta. I do know (from spending half each year in Europe) that when a Jetta that is fitted with an OEM rear fog light has that light turned on, it is REALLY bright, as it needs to be so you see the car in the fog.

The other possibility - and again, I am not sure of this, just speculating - is that perhaps there are different part numbers for the lens assemblies on the rear of the Jetta and/or Golf, depending on whether or not the car is a European or North American spec. Might be that the cars fitted with the factory rear foglight have a different type of lens pattern in the foglight section of the lens.

In any case, I'm happy to hear that the mod worked out well on your car, and all the lights at the back look the same. If you have accomplished all that, thus increasing the illumination area of the tail light lens when the brakes are applied, you have made a very useful modification.

I installed a single foglight in the back of my (Canadian spec) Golf - the sucker sure is bright when I turn it on - I will have to check what kind of bulb is in there and compare it to the brake light bulb next time I have that end of the car apart.

Michael
 

Stirer

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Pittsburgh, PA
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Jetta 2003 Platinum Gray GLS
I hate to digress on this topic, but I tried the addition of wiring to add the second set of brake lights (euro spec fog light position) to my 2003 Jetta. I had trouble shutting the car off when the brake pedal was pressed. When in reverse and brake pedal depressed, ingition acts like it is in the "run" position. Anyone else run into this problem??
 

BruhahaX

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2014 JSW
Interesting problem, I have had all but good luck with my wiring(2002 Golf) though. Im going to do this install on a 2003 Golf in the near future...maybe this is something too look for after im done.
 

avusblue

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May 30, 2002
Location
Minneapolis
Well, I just used Sylvania 7506 bulbs (P21W) as per the excellent writeup in the "how2" section at http://www.vwmkiv.com/. The bulbs looked identical to the OEM originals in the other positions of the carrier. This is just the "jumper wire" method within the bulb carrier, not affecting any wiring or circuitry within the car.

Good luck to those doing this mod. I can't really see how it could have a downside or create any side effects.


Dave
 

Variant TDI

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SS, MD.
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2002 Golf Variant, Reflex Silver
One side effect that this does have is... 84 Watts of rear brake lights, vs. the Stock 42 Watts.

Since I don't have a wiring diagram to see the wire gauge for the rear clusters... I can't say that you're going to melt them... but I certainly can say that you're passing alot more current through those wires than was originally designed for.
 
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