'01 Audi A4 1.8T quattro TDI Conversion

GoremanX

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2001 Audi A4 Avant quattro w/BHW TDI & 01E 6-speed
Those engine parts look great. You should have a very strong capable engine once finished. I'm curious to see the performance of your turbo, might be a good all around turbo. I have the gtb2260 on my Passat, but it surges pretty decently below 2500 rpms when I get on it too hard.
I'm still not convinced I chose the right turbo. Sometimes I have buyer's remorse. I had originally asked for a GTB2260VK, but then a bunch of members piped in with their own opinions ("that's way too much turbo", "that might be a bit much to run with your setup", "that turbo should work great for your setup", "what's a turbo?"). I ended up changing my order at the 11th hour for a GTB1756VK. I guess I'll find out eventually if I chose right.

Project is stalled right now. I'm really pissed off. While assembling the head, one of the so-called "reusable" cam cap bolts that's sold by Bora Parts and advocated by Franko6 ended up snapping off in the head. I was tightening it for the second time (first time was for pre-assembly), and it broke right off at the threads, deep inside the head. I've been trying to get the broken piece out for 2 days now, without success. It's infuriating as hell.

Those bolts are crap. The threads don't match up properly with the threads in the head, and they don't have have the necessary humps to properly align the caps. And because they're not stretch bolts, they snap without warning. To add insult to injury, they cost about the same as OEM bolts. Now I'm completely stuck on a build because of those damn things, and I risk damaging the head to get the broken bolt out.

Lesson learned...
 

LSSBoy

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Mascouche, Québec
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ALH
I just read the whole thread. Im planning on the same build ! Sorry for you broken bolt. Cant wait to see your progress im gonna follow your thread. Je suis de st lin, rivd nord de montréal, tu parle sûrement français !
 

GoremanX

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Oui, avec un nom comme François, j'espère être capable de parler Français :) j'ai beaucoup de famille à Terrebonne, Montréal et Repentigny.

Update on my current situation: Threads at the broken bolt are ruined. Gotta drill out the hole and put in a heli-coil. None available in the right size locally, so I had to order a kit from Amazon. I'm extremely frustrated.
 
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Ifixit

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97 B4 Passat GLX TDI Wagon & 99 Golf & 05 Passat 4motion Manual & 04 Audi A4 Avant
Oooo sorry to hear that.. I have used those bolts quite a few times without issue.. they are 12.9 made by THE and usually stronger than the stretch bolts.. I assume you were using the correct torque specs for the non TTY bolts?
Also I use Timesert inserts for all glow plug and other aluminum thread repairs.. much more durable and permanent than heli coil.. Ive done alot of botched glow plug removal repairs :)
 

GoremanX

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Oooo sorry to hear that.. I have used those bolts quite a few times without issue.. they are 12.9 made by THE and usually stronger than the stretch bolts.. I assume you were using the correct torque specs for the non TTY bolts?
After using those "reusable" bolts, I've found damage to all my cam caps. The one that broke off snapped at 10 ft-lb, which is WAY below the final tightening value. Just to clarify, it BROKE OFF, it didn't strip the aluminum threads. That tells me the bolt was defective.

Regardless, just looking at those "reusable" bolts, I can spot many reasons why they're bad and should not be used in place of OEM bolts. They provide zero benefits, and many potential problems (like damaging the cam caps, and not properly aligning the cam caps, for 2 quick examples). You can reuse the OEM bolts just fine if you don't TTY them. You just need to torque them to a specific value instead. Regardless, I'll tighten my new OEM cam cap bolts to OEM specifications, and I'll just replace them if they ever need to come off. It's a whole lot cheaper than potentially destroying the engine with one of those "reusable" bolts that isn't meant for that job.

Also I use Timesert inserts for all glow plug and other aluminum thread repairs.. much more durable and permanent than heli coil.. Ive done alot of botched glow plug removal repairs :)
Can't use a time-sert in these bolt holes. Time-serts have a beveled lip that prevents them from going in any deeper than the rim of the hole (where you counter-sink). The threads in these bolt holes have to start about 3/4" inside the bore. Plus, I needed about 30mm of threads. I was able to do that by stacking 4 heli-coils (28mm total). You can't stack time-serts, and the longest one they make in an M6 is 19mm.

Also, I've never, ever, ever actually seen a heli-coil strip out of aluminum. Heli-coils tend to result in threads that are much stronger than the base aluminum, and the new aluminum threads that hold the heli-coil in place are larger and stronger than the old ones. I inserted mine with red loctite.

Back when I worked at a race shop, it was common practice to drill out the threads in an aluminum V8 head and replace them all with heli-coils when building a brand new engine. This resulted in stronger threads.
 

Ifixit

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Yep, ive done the helicoil stack before too.. sounds like the head is all back together then?
 

GoremanX

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2001 Audi A4 Avant quattro w/BHW TDI & 01E 6-speed
Indeed, and looking great:



The bottom left cam cap bolt in the picture was the one that snapped. It's a crucial one for properly aligning the cam cap to the edge of the head so the tandem pump gasket can seal properly.

Been working on getting the rest of the engine back together now.
 

GoremanX

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2001 Audi A4 Avant quattro w/BHW TDI & 01E 6-speed
HAHAHA! Haaa! Ha.. haha...

..ha...

Joke's on me!

So I was cleaning out the intake manifold to install it on the engine. There was so much soot buildup in the runners, I couldn't even get a pinkie in there. It was nasty. Managed to get it ALL cleaned out beautifully by burning it off with propane and compressed air. Worked flawlessly (I wore a breathing mask and a face shield).

There were some oil spots left on the outside, and the inside was still pitch black and kinda rough, so I dunked the intake manifold into a bucket of degreaser. Meant to leave it in there overnight and finish cleaning it up in the morning.

Life happened, I got distracted, and I left the manifold in the degreaser for THREE DAYS! By the time I remembered to take it out, its surface was a nasty shade of gray and all sealing surfaces were deeply pitted. The insides of the runners have a bunch of glued-on sandy stuff (aluminum oxide) that's really hard to brush off, but I'm sure it would work its way into the engine if I left it there. I'd call it pretty much ruined...

Of course, since this is a BHW intake manifold, there's precious few of them in North America. I ordered a used intake manifold from across the pond. Hopefully it'll get here soon.
 

GoremanX

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le genre d'oublie qui coûte cher hehe ! mon intake de ALH aussi était bouchée ben dur. je rentrais à peine un doigt
At least they're plentiful in Europe :) $68, shipped for a clean one.

This time I won't leave it in the degreaser...
 

GoremanX

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2001 Audi A4 Avant quattro w/BHW TDI & 01E 6-speed
I just noticed there's no oil sensor in the pan, which is different from my 1.8T. I also can't see any oil temperature sensor anywhere else on the engine, unless I haven't been looking right. I do see an oil pressure switch on the oil filter adapter.

Is there a way to read oil temperature via OBD2? If not, I'd like to install an oil temp gauge (along with oil pressure and EGT).
 

mtushmoo

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97 Passat. 99 A6 avant in process. Parting '96 Passat. Parting '01 Passat Wagon.
My 2.8 liter had an oil temp sensor that looked like a 13mm headed bolt with a nail sticking out of the top.
 

GoremanX

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Getting really close now, it's very exciting. I was having an issue with fitting the EGR cooler because the VNT actuator was in the way:



But that's been resolved now. Tomorrow I'm going to get the turbo oil line modified, because the one X-Man sent me can't possibly fit my application.

A few things I still need to solve, maybe you guys can give me some insight:

- do I need a TDI gauge cluster? I realize my 1.8T gauge cluster doesn't have a glow plug light, the oil temp gauge won't work and the RPM redline is wrong. But none of those things bother me. I'd rather keep my gauge cluster. It has no immobilizer, and the center display was replaced just a couple years ago, still looks brand new.

- do I need the accelerator pedal from the Passat? Or will the one in my A4 work ok? I think they're both the same part number, but I remember reading somewhere that the TDI pedal has a different range or something...

- still need to acquire proper axles. All my earlier musings on the subject were completely wrong and should be ignored. My transmission has 130mm TDI flanges, which means I need TDI axles from a longitudinal B5.5 application. These are axles with tripod joints on the inboard side, which allow for greater lateral engine movement without loading the joints (those great TDI vibes). Only place I could find them is in Europe, for about $155 each (including core) + $124 shipping cost (!!!) for a total of $431.86... yikes.

- still haven't even looked at wiring all this up to my A4. Is there a reference somewhere that shows what modifications need to be made to the wiring at the ECU box to make all of this work? I'm having a really hard time figuring out the track wiring diagrams in the Bentley manuals for each of these cars (2005 Passat TDI and 2001 A4 1.8T). I need to take what used to go to these junction blocks:



and adapt it to these junctions blocks:



Nowhere in the official wiring diagrams can I find a handy reference that says "Orange block, pin 1: function X" and so on.
 
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Mikkijayne

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I've always made those reference tables myself from the wiring diagrams. The Passat and A4 should be virtually the same connections, just with some differences between gas and diesel.

The way I do them is to print out the wiring diagrams for both cars and then make a spreadsheet for each of the five connectors along with wire colours for both, then go through the diagrams a page at a time identifying each wire. Its fairly time consuming, but a good way of visualising whats going on. There are a bunch of wires in there for sensors, speed sender, reverse lights etc that aren't on the engine diagrams so you usually need lighting and cluster diagrams too. I have them for Euro models, but that may be misleading for US versions. You're welcome to them if you need them though.

The fuel pump relay in the 1.8T is used for the glow plugs in the TDI. The TDI has a separate relay for the fuel pump mounted above the central electrics block. A few other sensor wires are different too. Rad fan control may also be different.

Does the Passat not have the oil condition sensor in the sump like I presume the A4 does? Everything 2000-ish onwards has those here so surprised if the Passat doesn't. Thats what gives you the oil temp value and oil level warning.
 

GoremanX

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Thanks, that's very helpful. After poring over those wiring diagrams again, I did find references to those wiring blocks (ie. T15: white block in electronics plenum is where the accelerator wiring is found). I just have to leaf through each page manually to find them.

No, the BHW has no in-sump sensor. I was very surprised too. There's an impression on the pan where that sensor should be, and even some tapped holes for the bolts, but no hole drilled for the sensor. So I guess this means there's no purpose for the oil level check in the dash display, or the oil temp gauge in the cluster. I did find a spot to screw in a different kind of oil temperature sensor in the oil filter adapter, but it's blocked off by the dip stick tube. That port comes with a plug in it from the factory. I may try to find another way to add that temp sensor by teeing off from the turbo oil feed port.
 

Mikkijayne

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Did the A4 have the in-sump sensor? If yes then no point trying to fit a conventional one as the cluster won't have the wiring for it - it will be expecting the in-sump one. Alas the two types are not compatible.

Conceivably it would be possible to liberate the sensor wiring from the 1.8T harness and graft it in to the TDI one, and then drill TDI sump for the sensor.
 

K1Cowboy

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Did the A4 have the in-sump sensor? If yes then no point trying to fit a conventional one as the cluster won't have the wiring for it - it will be expecting the in-sump one. Alas the two types are not compatible.

Conceivably it would be possible to liberate the sensor wiring from the 1.8T harness and graft it in to the TDI one, and then drill TDI sump for the sensor.
Some A4's came with the sump sensor/ oil temp switch in the pan. I bought a 1.8T pan with the hole in it and mounted it to my AFN.
 

GoremanX

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2001 Audi A4 Avant quattro w/BHW TDI & 01E 6-speed
Did the A4 have the in-sump sensor? If yes then no point trying to fit a conventional one as the cluster won't have the wiring for it - it will be expecting the in-sump one. Alas the two types are not compatible.

Conceivably it would be possible to liberate the sensor wiring from the 1.8T harness and graft it in to the TDI one, and then drill TDI sump for the sensor.
Yes, my A4 has the in-sump sensor... and it went bad a few months ago :( I've had an inop oil temp gauge, and this in my display:
ever since. Drives me nuts. Especially when some other warning comes up (low fuel, low windshield washer fluid) and the display starts blinking between the two. The windshield washer warning is especially annoying because it's animated, so making it blink to the oil sensor warning is like adding insult to injury.

Some A4's came with the sump sensor/ oil temp switch in the pan. I bought a 1.8T pan with the hole in it and mounted it to my AFN.
I was tempted to try fitting my 1.8T oil pan to the BHW for just that reason, but the logistics of doing that in the middle of swapping an engine in a car I need to drive daily just got too complicated.

I may revisit this when both engines are out. I like having the oil temperature gauge because it gives a better indication of engine operating temperature than the coolant temp gauge (which is conditioned and always remains pegged at about 185f, regardless of actual coolant temperature).
 
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GoremanX

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2001 Audi A4 Avant quattro w/BHW TDI & 01E 6-speed
Got done putting together a spreadsheet for the wiring diagram. Most of the wires are a 1:1 match, so that's helpful. I did come across some weirdness, though. For reference, my A4 has an AWM-code 1.8T.

a) where's the RPM signal wire on the BHW harness? I didn't see it anywhere in the wiring diagram, but I did find it in the Audi diagram.

b) I've got 1 wire on the BHW diagram that seems to end at a plug... and then goes nowhere. It's a red/green wire in the 10th position on the orange connector (T10e/10) circled in red in the following diagram:


c) I've got a green/brown wire on the Audi diagram that also seems to go nowhere. It just ends at the connector, with no reference to any other track or diagram. It's at position 1 on the red connector (T15m/1) circled in red on the following diagram:


d) There's a wire on the BHW harness that appears to go to... the rear window defogger switch?!? after going through something called the Idle Boost circuit of the instrument panel wiring harness. I can find no matching circuit on the Audi side, and no explanation for what "Idle Boost" is supposed to mean... circled in red in the diagram below:


e) There's something on the BHW harness called the Ignition Switch and Starting Interlock Relay. I can find no corresponding circuit on the Audi side. This sounds like something that might prevent the engine from starting, whatever it is.

If someone has insight on these issues, I'd really appreciate it.
 

ta79pr

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I did a TDI swap into a TT (BEW). Granted the TT is more of a golf, i.e. VW, than your A4, but I did have similar cluster issues as the TT cluster is pure Audi. For whatever its worth, here are my two cents:
"a) where's the RPM signal wire on the BHW harness? I didn't see it anywhere in the wiring diagram, but I did find it in the Audi diagram."
The cluster just gets this off the k-line. The engine ECU gets it from G28 and (for the EDC16 BEW) it goes to ECU pin T60/58 & T60/43.
"b) I've got 1 wire on the BHW diagram that seems to end at a plug... and then goes nowhere. It's a red/green wire in the 10th position on the orange connector (T10e/10) circled in red in the following diagram:"
The 1.8t has a relay in the engine bay that powers the injectors it is in that black square plastic thing near your firewall. There of course is no corresponding circuit for the TDI. However, I think you will find that feed through the T14(i?) connector near the battery. pin5 ro/li, goes to fuse S232a.
"c) I've got a green/brown wire on the Audi diagram that also seems to go nowhere. It just ends at the connector, with no reference to any other track or diagram. It's at position 1 on the red connector (T15m/1) circled in red on the following diagram:"
I cant help with this one, pin 74 on my J220 1.8t diagram is null. But I believe almost everything with the red plenum connector has to do with the climatronic system (E87). There is a reference on audizine to T15m/1 but they say it goes to ABS… (http://www.audizine.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-428506-p-6.html).

"d) There's a wire on the BHW harness that appears to go to... the rear window defogger switch?!? after going through something called the Idle Boost circuit of the instrument panel wiring harness. I can find no matching circuit on the Audi side, and no explanation for what "Idle Boost" is supposed to mean... circled in red in the diagram below:"

I cant quite make it out in your pic, what is that pin number for the J248, T94/??.

"e) There's something on the BHW harness called the Ignition Switch and Starting Interlock Relay. I can find no corresponding circuit on the Audi side. This sounds like something that might prevent the engine from starting, whatever it is."

This sounds like an automatic v. manual issue. There is some discussion on that here: (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=350214).
Regarding the oil level sensor, my Audi cluster was never happy until I installed one in the TDI engine. I could never figure out a way to "code it out". I did however wire up a sensor and fill the hollow part of the sensor with oil and permatex it up and zip tied it behind the battery. That kept the cluster happy until I was able to source and finally install an oil pan with the sensor hole. At that point coding the cluster to be a TDI with a flexible maintenance interval was simple.
 

GoremanX

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Wow, the forum has been hard to use these last couple days...

I did a TDI swap into a TT (BEW). Granted the TT is more of a golf, i.e. VW, than your A4, but I did have similar cluster issues as the TT cluster is pure Audi. For whatever its worth, here are my two cents:
Oh wow, a BEW TDI into a TT? That's awesome! What a fun car that would be to drive.

"a) where's the RPM signal wire on the BHW harness? I didn't see it anywhere in the wiring diagram, but I did find it in the Audi diagram."
The cluster just gets this off the k-line. The engine ECU gets it from G28 and (for the EDC16 BEW) it goes to ECU pin T60/58 & T60/43.
That was my original thought as well. But on the AWM wiring diagram, there's a wire that comes from position 37 on the ECM and connects directly to circuit A45 on the instrument panel wiring harness (11th position on the blue gauge cluster connector). Circuit A45 is referred to as "Wire connection (RPM signal), in instrument panel wiring harness". So far, this is the only wire on the black connector that I can't match up to anything on the BHW harness.

"d) There's a wire on the BHW harness that appears to go to... the rear window defogger switch?!? after going through something called the Idle Boost circuit of the instrument panel wiring harness. I can find no matching circuit on the Audi side, and no explanation for what "Idle Boost" is supposed to mean... circled in red in the diagram below:"
I cant quite make it out in your pic, what is that pin number for the J248, T94/??.
T94/85 is what it says on the diagram. This one confuses me a lot. Connector T15e (orange) appears to have a lot of random, unrelated circuits.

Regarding the oil level sensor, my Audi cluster was never happy until I installed one in the TDI engine. I could never figure out a way to "code it out". I did however wire up a sensor and fill the hollow part of the sensor with oil and permatex it up and zip tied it behind the battery. That kept the cluster happy until I was able to source and finally install an oil pan with the sensor hole. At that point coding the cluster to be a TDI with a flexible maintenance interval was simple.
Based on what I've found, the oil level/temp sensor hooks up directly into the gauge cluster through the brown connector (T10) without going through the ECM first. So getting this working should be easy enough. What's annoying is that 1.8T oil pans have a hole for the turbo oil return, but the BHW has the oil return in the block. So do I drill a hole in the bottom of my BHW pan for the sensor? Or do I get a 1.8T pan and block off the oil return hole? What a conundrum! I'm leaning towards drilling my BHW pan.

Luckily, having the gauge cluster 100% functional isn't necessary to getting the engine running. There's no immobilizer on my car, never has been. I can drive it around without the gauge cluster connected at all and it runs fine. I did it for weeks while getting the LCD replaced 2 years ago. From what I'm seeing in my spreadsheet, there's very few modifications needed to get the engine running. The fuel pump relay wire needs to move from T10e(orange)/3 to T10m(black)/8, but that's about it. The rest (cruise control, gauge cluster) is details.
 

Mikkijayne

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I think the red/green is the supply for the glow plug relay. Thats currently the fuel pump relay in the A4. You need to swap the relay with the TDI one and possibly need to hook up the +ve and -ve coil connections. -ve is probably red/blue I think.

The 'idle boost' is exactly that - when a high current electrical thing is turned on the ECU knows about it and bumps the idle speed a little to give the alternator some more kick. You can just ignore it.

The starting interlock thing is probably connected to the clutch switch. I'd just wire it out.
 

K1Cowboy

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2000 Audi S4 AFN TDI
I have the T15 Green/Brown wire labeled as EDL. Electronic Diff Lock, only installed in 01+ cars. Mine did not have it being a 2000. Never hooked the wire up to anything, no issues.

I have the T15 Black and yellow wire saying it runs from the AC control head to the ECU, i forget what i connected it to, if anything at all.
 
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GoremanX

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Thanks everyone! I think that solves all the wires. This is much more straightforward than I expected. Once I've confirmed all the necessary changes after the swap, I'll post the spreadsheet I made.

Now I have another issue, the accelerator pedal. According to my AWM wiring diagram, there were 2 wiring schemes for my model year:



At the top of the wiring diagram are 2x G185/G79 units (TP sender/sensor). Vehicle build date determines which one is present. Both appear to be identical, but the order of the wires is different. According to my car's build date (May 2000), I'd have the one on the left. But the Passat that the ECU is coming from uses the wiring scheme on the right.

So... do I take the accelerator pedal from the Passat? Or do I change the order of the wires on my A4's pedal? I'm only assuming that the signal generated by each pedal is the same, I could be wrong about that. Switching pedals is straightforward enough, but I don't want a kick-down switch (which is found on the Passat's pedal).
 

GoremanX

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oops, I didn't realize the "kick-down switch" is really just a completely pointless mechanical spring with no electrical function... I can just swap the rubber bumper in its place and use it in my A4. No issues there.
 

K1Cowboy

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I used a B5.5 passat TDI pedal. It bolts right up. The resistance values are different on a gaser pedal IIRC or it doesn't have the same amount of travel.
 

GoremanX

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2001 Audi A4 Avant quattro w/BHW TDI & 01E 6-speed
TD Tuning asked me an interesting question. Which type of glow plugs should I be going with? I currently have 5v steel plugs in there, so I assume the recall was done on this engine once upon a time. But the type of glow plugs I use will determine which glow plug program gets loaded to the ECM.

What's the latest consensus on glow plugs? Keeping in mind -40 degree weather does happen here...
 

GoremanX

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Yep, project still alive. Decided to go with ceramic plugs. Consensus seems to be that they work better in cold weather, and the newest parts don't have the swelling problem that early ones did.

Now I'm stalled on the most unlikely obstacle... TUNING! I can't get in touch with a tuner to get my ECU flashed with an appropriate tune. I emailed TD Tuning multiple times, and no-one's replying (been over a month since they last replied). I sent multiple emails to Malone Tuning, and no-one ever replies. It's incredibly aggravating that no-one wants my money... kinda reminds me of the way many forum vendors have treated me. The engine is all built and ready to go, this is a stupid thing to be stuck on.
 

GoremanX

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Darn, wish I'd known about that earlier. I finally got a hold of Andrew Rodriguez at Malone Tuning and have been dealing with him.
 
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