MK4 ALH timing belt

Hi there, I have a couple questions

1. How hard is a timing belt to do, I'm semi confident in my mechanical skills but I'm too scare to try it since a mistake here means RIP camshaft.

I've watched some youtube videos to get a bead on what needs to be done
On average whats the labor charge on a timing belt if I take it too a shop with all the needed parts/belts (not sure if I should get off ol'rock auto or FCP for the warranty, PN's would be appreciated)

2. based off what I've see the serpentine belt seems within my wheelhouse, it seems to be pretty easy, any recommendations on where to get a kit?

Maybe if there's anyone in Socal. help doing the work would be appreciated, if not due to covid no sweat

1. Hard is relative. Depends on your comfort level with taking things apart.
This job does require some specialty tools. Some people fabricate their own but...they tend
to have a really high comfort level.
2. TB is a whole 3 level-ups from serp belt.
idparts.com
cascadegerman.com
metalmanparts.com
...there are more respected vendors besides these, but these guys all have kits
to make it easy to shop.
If you read these instructions 3 or 4 times, you'll probably do fine:
http://pics2.tdiclub.com/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf
Cost for a shop to do it should be no more than $800
But hear me now and believe me later, nobody should work on your TDI unless they are
Jimmy Hendrix-level-experienced with the TDI. That's why there's a list of trusted mechanics here.
Getting shorter all the time, sadly.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=130044

Just what STDOUBT said plus the fact that most shops may not warranty their job/repairs if you bring your own replacement parts.
TB is not that hard but requires time, patience and a lot of knowledge so read those instructions few times and see if you're up for it.
Good kuck

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If you take it to someone else DO NOT BRING THE PARTS. Let them take the risk of being wrong; you will have no warranty if there is a problem with YOUR parts and THEY do the work. It is what it is.

As far as difficulty, if you've never done one before then it's an all-day (and a long day) job. I can do it in about 5 hours now, but I've done a few and thus I'm not constantly referring to this or that because I know the sequence and what has to be done when, and in addition I have figured out how to make a few things easier. I do still keep a table with the various torque specs for the bolts in question at hand. Several of them are one-time use, must-replace fasteners as well.

You do need a handful of special tools, specifically a cam lock plate is not optional and the proper tool to get the cam sprocket off is really not optional either, nor is a counter-hold tool for that sprocket. Trying to cheat the procedure is asking for serious trouble -- don't. And as with any engine work a torque wrench isn't optional either. The correct tool for the valve cover bolts makes life much easier; there are two in the back that, without it, are very hard to get out (and back in at the correct torque.)

There's one correct way to do the belt in terms of setting the tension and maintaining the timing relationships and a whole lot of wrong ways. Any of the wrong ways is asking for a catastrophic failure and at minimum severe valve and lifter damage; the worst case if a collision occurs and a valve head fractures and falls off can be a destroyed engine.

The serpentine belt is trivial to do from the bottom; if the belly pan is off you can change one of those in a few minutes on ramps. The timing belt is a LOT more complicated.

What Genesis said up there ^^^^^

I might add, proper tools for the job as has been mentioned, is extremely important. And, do you have a place to do the work? Do you have a safe place to work? Do you have the proper floor jack(s) and jack stands? Keep in mind, when you have finished the job and ready to start the engine, you'll need VCDS to set the timing...... (VCDS is a tool)

As Genesis stated, sequence is important in making the job go smooth, going in and finishing up. It use to take me 12 hours by myself and 12 hours with someone helping me. I can now do an ALH TB job in about 8 yours (getting older).

I'm not a shop......... I do a few jobs for folks I know and their friends! I've been charging $350 labor since 2008 and have never botched a job.

AndyBees said:

What Genesis said up there ^^^^^

I might add, proper tools for the job as has been mentioned, is extremely important. And, do you have a place to do the work? Do you have a safe place to work? Do you have the proper floor jack(s) and jack stands? Keep in mind, when you have finished the job and ready to start the engine, you'll need VCDS to set the timing...... (VCDS is a tool)

As Genesis stated, sequence is important in making the job go smooth, going in and finishing up. It use to take me 12 hours by myself and 12 hours with someone helping me. I can now do an ALH TB job in about 8 yours (getting older).

I'm not a shop......... I do a few jobs for folks I know and their friends! I've been charging $350 labor since 2008 and have never botched a job.

Click to expand...

I have all of the metalnerd timing belt tools I got them from a tdi club member , I bought them thinking maybe I could take a stab at it; the only thing I don't have yet is VCDS.
Im most likely going to order that pretty soon.

I've been watching videos and reading the haynes and Bentley manuals but I'm not too confident since it took me 3 days to do front shocks, skid plate I'm only a light wrench.

STDOUBT said:

1. Hard is relative. Depends on your comfort level with taking things apart.
This job does require some specialty tools. Some people fabricate their own but...they tend
to have a really high comfort level.
2. TB is a whole 3 level-ups from serp belt.
idparts.com
cascadegerman.com
metalmanparts.com
...there are more respected vendors besides these, but these guys all have kits
to make it easy to shop.
If you read these instructions 3 or 4 times, you'll probably do fine:
http://pics2.tdiclub.com/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf
Cost for a shop to do it should be no more than $800
But hear me now and believe me later, nobody should work on your TDI unless they are
Jimmy Hendrix-level-experienced with the TDI. That's why there's a list of trusted mechanics here.
Getting shorter all the time, sadly.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=130044

Click to expand...

Ive looked there and I wanted a solid baseline on how much it should be, I think timing belt is needed( I'm at 199k)but I'm not sure what else is needed yet, as in water pump etc. I have a new engine mount to install but in parts I'm looking at 300 so it may be worth it to get a shop to do it rather than myself just for piece of mind.

I try to do everything I can such as filters, oil, trans flushes but the timing belts makes me a little uneasy, since what can happen.

No shame in recognizing your limitations. Quite the contrary.
I have not done my own TB yet, but the cumulative experiences of other wrenching on my own,
along with reading many stories about TB replacement here, I'll be tackling it when the time comes.
Just please make sure your guy is a TDI guy, and don't be afraid to as questions like "are you going to make sure and replace every torque-to-yield bolt, all rollers and BTW, what brand of water pump do you use?" Ask who's kit maybe.
Everything needed is listed here (for example):
https://www.idparts.com/timing-belt-kit-alh-038109119m-p-449.html
Scroll down on that page for the list of items.
EDIT: Like I said, $800ish should cover the whole kit plus labor. Probably be less.

Fairly common consent on the forum is that along with the belt itself, all rollers and roller pins, water pump, and tensioner also get replaced. There are other components to keep in mind, I think most commonly the cam sprocket which should be inspected for cracks and replaced if necessary.

I did the TB on my ‘03 Jetta (not mine anymore) using the instructions referenced by STDOUBT in reply #2. It was the first time I had attempted a repair so involved. From that experience, here’s what I found to be challenging, in order from most to least difficult:

1. Unfamiliarity. I didn’t actually understand the function of a timing belt. So I had to do some book learning on top of learning the specific R&R process for the engine. Working up the courage to commit to doing the job was the hardest part. I was never going to learn how to do it until I actually did it. Ultimately I figured that the worst thing that could happen by tearing into it but not being able to finish the job was that I’d have to eat a slice of humble pie and trailer the car to a shop. I decided I would be okay with that. I also had to trust that the information I got from the forum was good, and if followed to the letter would produce a good result.

2. Getting the right tools and equipment, much of which I didn’t have. It added to the cost of the repair and I didn’t have cash to throw around. I had to overcome enough doubt in my ability to do the job to commit money to tools. Even then, it was a mix of buying and borrowing things to get the job done.

3. Actually doing the work. With the instructions and people on the forum who were very willing to help, actually doing the work was pretty straightforward. I took it step by step and just made for darn sure I understood what I was doing before I did it, and what the result should be afterwards. I got hung up on a couple things but with help from the forum I sorted them out. From my experience doing it I believe it’s very hard to make an irreversible mistake.

The TB on that Jetta is now about 50K into its service life. Gotta admit it was scary as hell starting it up for the first time. It would’ve been so much more confidence inspiring to have had someone with me who’d done the job before. With some careful attention to detail, it’s not necessary (but definitely a bonus).

wildn, if you decide to tackle the TB on your own I have the needed special tools and
VCDS to adjust timing when you're done. You need to be to good with torquing, etc.
I've only had to do my TB once so far so I'm hardly an expert.

You may be better off taking it to AG Autowerks (www.agautowerks.com) in Ventura.
I haven't tried them but they should be able to work on a TDI.
Maybe someone who has taken their TDI there can fill us in.

Befor you attempt replacement of the TB on any TDI ...You must have access to CVDS. Don't event think of jumping into the TB without this "tool".

Always (and I do mean ALWAYS) use a check list.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/503/72041aaTDC_Verification.jpg

You can fine tune the timing with any OBDII device that will read MB 000, field 2.

If you set the IP Sprocket dead center in the three slots, the Timing will be almost spot on. I've never had one to fail to start after a TB job. And, I've never had one with the Timing out side the graph. If it starts, it is highly likely it will run pretty darn good. So, if you don't have VCDS, take it to the nearest source....

The first timing belt I did, I was in the graph but right near the edge.

The second one I did I got very, very anal about everything being bang-on. And it was dead-balls on the centerline.

So have been the rest I've done. Now as i turns out of it's my car I prefer it about halfway above the centerline in the top half as you get a bit more pep that way, but if you pay attention to what you're doing it will be very, very close if not dead-balls right up the middle.

Do you absolutely need VCDS? Yes. But if you do the job right will it be bang on, and thus be a matter of being able to set it where you want it instead of exactly in the middle? Also yes.

flee said:

wildn, if you decide to tackle the TB on your own I have the needed special tools and
VCDS to adjust timing when you're done. You need to be to good with torquing, etc.
I've only had to do my TB once so far so I'm hardly an expert.

You may be better off taking it to AG Autowerks (www.agautowerks.com) in Ventura.
I haven't tried them but they should be able to work on a TDI.
Maybe someone who has taken their TDI there can fill us in.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info I'm looking for a place, I've found two places semi local(top shop auto in SB and thousand oaks precision auto) off the recommended list.

I'm leaning towards a having shop do it for the piece of mind, otherwise I'll psych myself out like i did when I installed my shocks and struts, i had 2 shops double check it before i started driving on them.

wildn said:

Thanks for the info I'm looking for a place, I've found two places semi local(top shop auto in SB and thousand oaks precision auto) off the recommended list.

I'm leaning towards a having shop do it for the piece of mind, otherwise I'll psych myself out like i did when I installed my shocks and struts, i had 2 shops double check it before i started driving on them.

Click to expand...

This has been said a thousand times on this forum, but make tripley certain that wherever you take it has the proper tools and does it the proper way. Your average mechanic will be 100% certain that they can do it the same way they do all kinds of cars, but they are wrong.

Read my thread "Scary situation". The fellow who I thought was a seasoned TDI mechanic for my timing belt change was not. Do yourself a favor and find a recommenced TDI mechanic from this site.

BobnOH said:

You can fine tune the timing with any OBDII device that will read MB 000, field 2.

Click to expand...

Just to add to this, there's a graph in the Bently manual that shows the two values you get from field two and where they cross should be between the top and bottom lines.

I think the graph is in the forum pictures but do not recall exactly how to find it.

I was concerned when I did my 1st belt change.

Took me over 12 hours iIrc.

Remember, once the belt is tensioned, cam gear tight, and pump bolts tight to turn the engine over with a breaker bar on the -crankshaft- two full revolutions.
Do not use the cam or pump to turn it.