First impression of a fixed 3.0L TDI Gen 2

Mythdoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Touareg, 2015 Q5, 2015 Golf
Why is it that Bird67 has the burden of proof of producing the evidence? Do you honestly believe that this burden should be on individual owners....

No one should be guessing about anything. VAG's position should have been documented.... Why would they agree to that? ....You want Bird67 to spend a thousand dollars to prove VAG should now give him the %500 they agreed to IF he can prove as substantial reduction in performance.
Fine, I thought you guys really wanted to be taken seriously, get some redress, and would understand that just talking and moaning wouldn’t do it. Okay, stay in your world of shoulda, woulda, and coulda. It really doesn’t matter what I honestly believe, so I’ll let you guys enjoy your pity party.
 

bird67

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Location
Snowy North
TDI
2014 Touareg TDI*
Fine, I thought you guys really wanted to be taken seriously, get some redress, and would understand that just talking and moaning wouldn’t do it. Okay, stay in your world of shoulda, woulda, and coulda. It really doesn’t matter what I honestly believe, so I’ll let you guys enjoy your pity party.
Saying “I’m taking my toys and going home” doesn’t really do much to support your argument. In fact, there is much that is true about what you are saying - that to the extent post-“fix” owners can validate their experiences scientifically, it is more likely to be persuasive.

But there are two problems with that. First, there is no to whom to be persuasive. The legal case has run its course, and no amount of complaining by owners at this late stage is going to change anything. So to whom, then, to be persuasive? How about to a forum of self-selecting persons with similar interests? Like, an on-line forum? You’ve been a frequent poster of late, on this self-selecting forum, letting us all know your views. To which are you welcome, and about which you are welcome to share. Your arguments are valid. It is the condescending way in which you present them (...”moaning”...”pity party”...) that raises ire here.

Second, there is more to vehicle enjoyment than raw data. The fastest road car may be a Hemi Challenger, for example, but that’s not a vehicle I would choose to own. The highest mileage vehicle may be a Prius, but that’s not a vehicle I would choose to own, either. Read any new car review in a paper or e-magazine format and, beyond the raw numbers, you will find plenty of subjective commentary. Some of us choose our vehicles because of a subjective combination of attributes. Change those attributes, even in ways they cannot be measured, and we like the vehicles less. So, for me, hearing subjective commentary post-“fix” is enormously helpful, because it helps me determine whether getting the last “fix” payment is worth the change in driving experience. It’s neither “moaning” nor a “pity party” to share all experiences, not just fan-boy boosterism, on a forum designed for sharing.

It would be too bad if you chose to vacate the forum. After all, just as you say why should we care what you honestly believe, why should you care what others think about what you have to say? Stay, continue to share, no need to be thin-skinned. We are, after all, dealing with a decidedly first-world problem that is a nice distraction from sh*t that really matters.
 

az7000'

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI (gone), 2014 Passat TDI (gone), 2014 Touareg TDI (Amazing!)
A month into our fix and I don't see a big change, maybe a bit louder, and she rolls down the hills better! I'll hand calculate a tank and post back. We still have the $699 in a "trust" to decide if we need a Kerma tune or just spend it for fun!
From Flagstaff (7000') to Phx (1600') and back with some city driving in the middle. Cruise on the highway at 83-84 where possible and some full footed acceleration tests hand calculated out at 25.95 mpg over 400 miles. Not too bad but it may have been better before the fix, I don't remember. I'm still lobbying the wife for a tune....
 

MBQ

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 4Dr DSG
I just got my Cayenne fixed. Not much of a difference driving wise except some downshift of the transmission all the time on D-mode compared to pre-fix. But the difference of the diesel version and the gas version was not THAT great to start with. (Got a 2018 cayenne gas loaner)

Looks like the Q7 fix got the short end of the stick.
 
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FixedTouareg

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Location
California
TDI
2015 Touareg
2015 Touareg, only 16k miles. Post fix sound is definitely louder, has a little diesel growl sound when you first accelerate from stop. Surprisingly, it actually feels the same off the line, when it shifts into 2nd it doesnt run away the same way as prefix, but still feels strong like a diesel. Contemplating trading it in and being done with it.

The new estimated MPG is 20/29, while before fix I think it was 21/29. Had to fight to get my free tank of fuel and the service boy got diesel fuel all over his hands and the steering wheel smelled like diesel.... thanks bud! Tranny braking seems less, and the cold start shifting seems to favor the high rpms-- must have been that "warm up strategy" revision they said. I think they most definitely turned up the EGR a lot, will most likely stick with propel diesel hpr, cetane 75 and 34% less particulate matter-- hopefully keep the recirculated exhaust gas much cleaner. Been using opti lube lubricate formula with it also. If they turned up the EGR I am worried long term about the valves getting caked up with soot, especially since it is a short tripper.

In 16k miles prefix the long term fuel mileage was 19.1 mpg, 95% city driving with a lot of idling.
 
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OmniGLH

Active member
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Location
Chicago
TDI
Porsche Cayenne Diesel
The first few reports of folks complaining of noise, low power, etc. I honestly took as essentially drama queens or folks that are just naturally unhappy.

But I've seen enough between here and on Rennlist (Cayenne diesels) to make me think that perhaps there are issues with dealers not doing it properly?

Honestly there's almost ZERO difference with my '14 Cayenne post-fix, other than a different shift pattern when cold. When fully up to operating temp there's really no discernible difference. Any difference I *do* notice *could* be placebo.. I sense it because I'm looking for it.

Maybe it's worth figuring out where everyone is from... and pairing up for some test drives. Somebody with a "no difference" car go take a ride with someone who says "OMG it's terrible" and vice-versa?
 

Owain@malonetuning

Associate Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Location
Vancouver
TDI
PD jetta wagon
I'd be curious to know if anyones spoken to Malone tuning re "fixing" the fix? When I last spoke to their rep some time ago here in Canada, I interpreted his comments to mean they can not alter any of the ecu map which concerns engine emissions. So does this mean that they are limited in undoing what Audi has done to the ecu code? Based on what I'm reading, hopefully not.
No intention of letting the dealer touch my 15' Q5 (CPO'ed till 2021'), but still would be nice to know what options are out there.
We've been tuning these vehicles pretty well daily since the updates were announced. Increased DEF consumption is a minimal price to pay and the best way to reduce emissions, seems there's a lot more to it and people have been complaining about TCM behavior, noticeable mileage drops, and poor response on tip-in. If software is changed considerably and fault tables are moved around, faults are changed, and sensors are changed, you cannot revert to the old software since it won't work with the newer parts and adaptations made to other modules. More power and injection mapping fixes everything but DEF consumption, which is inexpensive. There's always the option of installing a rawtek exhaust too.
 
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psd1

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Location
OR
TDI
2006 Jetta 2013 Passat SE 6Man
From Flagstaff (7000') to Phx (1600') and back with some city driving in the middle. Cruise on the highway at 83-84 where possible and some full footed acceleration tests hand calculated out at 25.95 mpg over 400 miles. Not too bad but it may have been better before the fix, I don't remember. I'm still lobbying the wife for a tune....
Your mileage sounds spot on (actually better than I would have expected) for the type of driving you are describing.
 

FixedTouareg

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Location
California
TDI
2015 Touareg
I actually like the vehicle better now. It has a longer warranty, free adblue, vw and Bosch are giving me 10k. Performance is basically the same. The car is cleaner now, which is a good thing too.
Maybe Audi vehicles are seeing more performance loss because the had more torque, 428ft lbs vs Touareg 406 ft lbs? Are the higher mileage vehicles having the problems? Maybe the EGR system is more caked up, meaning the EGR cooler isn't cooling the recirculated gases as much, showing a loss of power when the EGR gets turned up?
 

dunerking

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Saugus,Ca
TDI
04 Jetta TDI
The first few reports of folks complaining of noise, low power, etc. I honestly took as essentially drama queens or folks that are just naturally unhappy.

But I've seen enough between here and on Rennlist (Cayenne diesels) to make me think that perhaps there are issues with dealers not doing it properly?

Honestly there's almost ZERO difference with my '14 Cayenne post-fix, other than a different shift pattern when cold. When fully up to operating temp there's really no discernible difference. Any difference I *do* notice *could* be placebo.. I sense it because I'm looking for it.

Maybe it's worth figuring out where everyone is from... and pairing up for some test drives. Somebody with a "no difference" car go take a ride with someone who says "OMG it's terrible" and vice-versa?
I feel just about the same with our 13 Cayenne except for when I go thru a corner(somewhat spirited driving) and about half way thru the corner I put my foot into the gas pedal and there is a significant delay before acceleration happens. This is the noticeable difference because I've taken these same corners for 1.5 years before fix and I never experienced this lag...maybe had I sunk my foot to the floor it would've kicked in it I've never had to do that in the past. Otherwise MPG or performance hasn't been changed greatly... can't complain about Adblue consumption yet..
 

TouaregCryer

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2017
Location
Orlando, FL
TDI
2013 Touareg Lux
I took my 2013 Touareg TDI for the emissions"fix" day before yesterday, after all the approval paperwork was done. The dealer kept it overnight, saying the "fix" typically took 5 to 6 hours. Picked it up yesterday, and the only thing I noticed (at first) was that the car seemed to try to pull away in too high a gear, and suddenly lurched down to a lower one. That was the only time that particular event occurred. Drove it home - about 6 miles - with no problems. To test the "spunk", I lead-footed it at a stoplight and it took off like a scalded cat. NO loss of acceleration pickup. So far, so good.

But today I drove across town for an appointment, and for the first mile or so, the car lurched badly every two blocks or so. Sometimes it felt like the tranny was going nuts, other times it felt as though the motor was cutting out and cutting back in rapidly. The "lurch" would go on for 6 to 10 lurches, and then smooth out. After about 8 or 9 episodes of lurching, the rest of the drive across town went smoothly.

But after the appointment, same thing: numerous episodes of lurching, finally smoothing out after a mile or so (10 to 15 city blocks).

Previously - before the emissions "fix", I'd had several episodes of the engine simply quitting for two or three seconds, then coming back to life. I took it to the dealer, but of course he couldn't duplicate the problem so nothing was done. I'd hoped that perhaps the "fix" might take care of the problem. (It didn't. I also had one "cut-out" on the way home, between lurching episodes described above.)

VWgoa did sent me the penalty money - $7366 in my case - and assures that the Bosch penalty check - $1,500 - in "in the mail". That satisfies me...NOT!

I'll be on the phone with the dealer tomorrow. The "fix" is UNSAT!
 

TouaregCryer

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2017
Location
Orlando, FL
TDI
2013 Touareg Lux
For some reason a longer post I wrote hasn't "taken", so I'll respond here with my own "first impression".

I had my 2013 Touareg TDI undergo the emissions "fix" day before yesterday. The dealer's service writer told me the car had been thoroughly test driven by a technician, and all worked out "A-Okay". Having driven it home and to a cross-town appointment today, I have to wonder... did the mechanic just back it out of the bay and drive it over to the car wash?

In fact, the car is "lurching" badly. At various times - usually every few city blocks or so - with my foot steady on the accelerator, either the tranny is going nuts or the engine cuts in and out. The effect is the "lurching" one might experience in a car running out of gas.

After a few episodes of such lurching, it seemed to smooth out okay. But after leaving it parked while I kept my appointment in town, during the early stages of the drive back home the lurching returned... and then smoothed out again after a few "episodes".

In this case, the "fix" is UNSAT!

The car is useless in this condition. I'll be having a "conversation" with the service department of my dealer tomorrow. Somehow, I had a feeling that something like this would happen. I really do wonder it they can bring the car back to its original condition before the "fix", and wonder if "the fix is in". Cheat once? Maybe cheat twice. I'm very discouraged.
 

TouaregCryer

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2017
Location
Orlando, FL
TDI
2013 Touareg Lux
To "FixedTouareg": believe it or not, I have only 9,400 miles on my 2013. I'm retired, and my wife does most of the driving and errand-running in her Lexus. My own driving has been in 200 mile chunks between Orlando (my home) and Live Oak in N. Florida. No problems at all. Same with fairly regular driving around town, but not often enough to pile up the miles.

It's a great pity. I LOVE my Touareg! I'm a big guy - 6' 4", 215 lbs - and it's perfect for me. It took off like a scalded cat, and the range and 30mpg ratings were accurate. Honestly, I just want my Treg back!
 
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FixedTouareg

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Location
California
TDI
2015 Touareg
You could be chasing around problems on that for awhile, fighting with vw to throw parts, fluids, and service at it in hopes it solves the problem. Vacuum leak, low transmission fluid level, maybe your down pipe into the dpf didn't have a good seal, who knows.

Makes me wonder what else they changed in 2015, because mine runs like a top. They also didn't do anything to mine except a software update, no parts.

Have you had the fuel filter changed yet? Even though you are low miles your fuel filter has been in for a long time, and you said you had a couple stalling events prefix?
 
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lord diesel

Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Location
Calgary
TDI
2000' Jetta TDi, 2016' Audi Q5 TDI
We've been tuning these vehicles pretty well daily since the updates were announced. Increased DEF consumption is a minimal price to pay and the best way to reduce emissions, seems there's a lot more to it and people have been complaining about TCM behavior, noticeable mileage drops, and poor response on tip-in. If software is changed considerably and fault tables are moved around, faults are changed, and sensors are changed, you cannot revert to the old software since it won't work with the newer parts and adaptations made to other modules. More power and injection mapping fixes everything but DEF consumption, which is inexpensive. There's always the option of installing a rawtek exhaust too.
Let's assume hypothetically that I wish to revert to stock code on a 2015 or 2016. Would that not be feasible given (per my understanding), that in these two models years we're dealing only with a software change by VAG (so no hardware/sensor or adaptation changes)?
Secondly, and just to be clear, your saying that your power gains post tune are similar or the same on a emision fixed 3.0L tdi vs. a virgin 3.0L.?
 

TouaregCryer

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2017
Location
Orlando, FL
TDI
2013 Touareg Lux
To FixedTouareg: fuel filter... excellent suggestion! I drove a Chevy 1 ton dually diesel back when I lived in "the woods" on the Suwannee River a few years back, and the only problem I ever had with it turned out to be the fuel filter.

That was a long time ago and I'd forgotten, but now that you mention it... the symptoms are identical! GREAT suggestion! Taking her in tomorrow.
 

flargabarg

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
TDI
2011 Touareg Lux TDI
Might start with just a transmission reset. It might be learning the new mapping and not doing a great job of it.
 

TouaregCryer

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2017
Location
Orlando, FL
TDI
2013 Touareg Lux
Will Do

To FixedTouareg: I'll definitely keep you posted. I took the car in today, and had a conversation with the dealer's diesel tech. He "lit up" when I suggested the filter as the possible problem, and observed that despite the low mileage, the car was 4 1/2 years old. Maybe not time for a change, but close in terms of time versus mileage.

Also, my last fuel fill up was at a rural filling station near Live Oak in N. Florida, and who knows how old their holding tank is and what condition it's in, so I'm having the dealership drain the tank and refill it (in accordance with the "emissions deal").

There was no lurching on the way to the dealership this morning, reminding me what a delight that car is to drive. No matter what, I'm keep at it until I get my Touareg back!
 

OmniGLH

Active member
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Location
Chicago
TDI
Porsche Cayenne Diesel
How many miles did you put on it?

Mine felt a little funny when I first picked it up. Per my dealer (and consensus in the Rennlist thread) is it takes a solid 500 miles before things clear up.
 

TouaregCryer

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2017
Location
Orlando, FL
TDI
2013 Touareg Lux
How Many Miles

Only 9,350 miles. Because almost all of my driving is in town, it'd take me a very long time indeed to reach 500 miles. I do occasionally make the 200 mile trip from Orlando to Live Oak (400 mile round trip), but won't be doing that until I'm sure the problem is resolved. I do have AAA, but... ;- )
 
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MBQ

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 4Dr DSG
Drove my fixed A8L back from the dealer today.

Driving wise, not much of a difference from pre-fix.
 

psd1

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Location
OR
TDI
2006 Jetta 2013 Passat SE 6Man
Drove my fixed A8L back from the dealer today.

Driving wise, not much of a difference from pre-fix.
Any issues at the dealership? How long did you wait? Any bucking or wheezing? Get your tank filled?
 

MBQ

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 4Dr DSG
Any issues at the dealership? How long did you wait? Any bucking or wheezing? Get your tank filled?
Well I sent the car in for a CEL issue six days before the bridge warranty expires which was Jan. 2nd. The dealer replaced the fuel injector for the CEL issue. The emission fix was done by Jan. 4th, I believe. They refilled a full tank of Adblue but forgot to refill the diesel tank. I mentioned it to the service manager and he apologized and got that done, too.

I had a dangerous safety issue with my other A8 when I visited a national park. The floating bolt of the left rear brake got broken and the brake fluid hose was ripped open. Both braking pads were gone. Almost all the fluid bled dry. I drove the car back town 600 miles away with little braking force on Christmas day. Very scary I’d say, but I survived. I will never do this stunt ever again and I don’t want anybody to do the same as I did. This is a very rare situation for any car brand. Audi asked me some questions since it’s got aftermarket braking pads but in the end they decided to cover it under warranty. I don’t think they want any exposure on the problem. I was told after they replace the whole left rear braking system they’ll do the emission fix.

I also have a Q5 which had central and right air-conditioning vent issue and it’s covered under warranty. The dealer is waiting for the software to arrive to do the emission fix. Hope it’s also acceptable as the A8.

So I milked very hard on the bridge warranty at the last minute and even my service manager was joking about it. Their service is outstanding and I’ll give all the emission fix business to them.
 

mbcracken

Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2017
Location
Fall City, WA
TDI
Audi Q5
...
I also have a Q5 which had central and right air-conditioning vent issue and it’s covered under warranty. The dealer is waiting for the software to arrive to do the emission fix. Hope it’s also acceptable as the A8.
...
We have a 2015 Q5 TDi (Jan 25th is the emission appt)...but your comment about the vent issue caught my eye. Sometimes we notice a major difference in the air temps coming out of the two central vents. Usually the left one is warm and the right one is cool. Does anyone know the recall or TSB#? Appreciate any help that folks can provide.

Cheers,
Mike
 

BarryT82

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Location
Charleston, WV
TDI
‘12 JSW TDI
I don’t ever feel air coming out of the center vents. The check engine light came on in my wife’s TDI today for the NOx sensor.
 
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