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VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas Discussions area for A5/MkV Jetta/Golf (2005/2006 PD and 2009 CR).

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Old December 19th, 2011, 16:48   #1
DZL_Damon
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Default Apparent intercooler icing issue (x2), dealer no help. Whats the suggestions?

Got a knock on my buildings door at work from the woman I performed her 40k mile maintenance on last week for her 09 JSW TDi. She didn't seem happy.... car would not start.

I tried starting it. Acted like battery was dead, cranked 1/2 a rev, then stopped with all lights going out. Felt like when I hydrolocked my Jeep and had to blow water out of the spark plug holes.

Anyway, I thought I had heard of this intercooler icing issue. I offered her my car since I was paranoid somehow this was my fault. Tried to start my car.... same thing. At least I was off the hook for messing up her car, but now I have 2 TDi's to get running.

Dropped her belly pan and saw lots of oily watery liquid on the belly pan right under the intercooler that was NOT there last week when I did the maintenance. Removed her intercooler and found evidence of water/oil, but it had been sucked up already. A few drops came out, but most of it was elsewhere. We kept trying.... engine came to a stand still and would not rotate anymore. Wait for 1 minute and it would rotate another revolution or so... I'm assuming it was hydrolocked and the water was bleeding past the valves, or worst: past the rings into the oil sump!

Anyway. Got hers going, and started working on mine.... Dealership was called and was told since I was at 47,000 miles that this was not a warranty item! Apparently I have to take care of this myself. Any tricks? I already have pipe insulation on the lower section of the grill. This infuriates me that the dealership thinks that an engine full of water is not a power train item? Apparently I must throw a rod before they care? Any tips to make that happen?

Seriously, any tips to help the icing issue. I am NOT buying a part from VW to fix their own design flaw. This is the only intercooled turbo diesel I've experienced this with!!
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Old December 19th, 2011, 20:44   #2
Mike in Anchorage
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How's your temps and humidity been. This seems to occur around the time when it's slightly above freezing and humid. 4C rain is prone to causing it. I'm certain there are threads from just before Thanksgiving last year with the same issues. I wish I could help more, but I haven't experienced it.
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Old December 20th, 2011, 03:32   #3
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Warm the evening before (above freezing). 7*F the next morning on our drive in to work. During work, temps worked back up to 40*F and that's when it happened.

Similar styled weather when this happened to me last week. Below freezing on my way to work, then got above freezing when I went to start it for my ride home.
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Old December 20th, 2011, 05:10   #4
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DZL: Had same symptoms last night when I was leaving work in Boston. Car finally turned over after 15 minutes... Spoke with VW Service Manager @ Seacoast VW in Portsmouth, NH. He had several similar calls earlier on Monday. Apparently there is a kit available to remedy, but it's on back order from VW. In the meantime, there's a temporary 'fix' (disconnecting intake hose to intercooler). Dealer took me right in this AM. Hope this helps...
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Old December 20th, 2011, 05:31   #5
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Is forcing your engine to start the smart thing to do under these circumstances? Isn't the risk of serious damage very real?
The CR start-up is SO instantaneous (I think about low-oil pressure issues...there's a PD here with 250k+ miles...claims his cam life was extended because of very infrequent start-up), if mine ever fails to start, I think I would be hesitant to force the issue.
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Old December 20th, 2011, 05:36   #6
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I had 2 hard starts yesterday in my Golf, first thing in the AM when it was 20 F and leaving work. Turned over easily, but sputtered and stumbled for several seconds. Required a little throttle to keep it going, then, ran perfectly smoothly. Same thing happened at the end of the day, but the car never was below freezing during the day. Today, it was 44 F in the AM and no issues. Don't know if this was IC related. Is there any consensus on whether all CR owners in northern climates should get the IC "fix"?
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Old December 20th, 2011, 06:48   #7
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Is there anything we can do to avoid this in the known bad conditions? Like a WOT blast, say down an on-ramp or something? Clean stuff out before shutdown? Or does it really not matter what we do?
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Old December 20th, 2011, 08:58   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tightlines View Post
In the meantime, there's a temporary 'fix' (disconnecting intake hose before the air box). Dealer took me right in this AM. Hope this helps...
Corrected, disconnecting anything to the IC will result in multiple codes and MIL to be tossed (loss of boost)
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Old December 20th, 2011, 09:00   #9
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BTW sounds like VW is forcing you to bend a rod and have them replace everything under warranty!

How could VW wave off any warranty claim due to hydrolocking with this known TSB and lack of action on their part.

BTW contacting Baranger VW in Rochester NH might be worth a shot, they installed my TSB IC kit after I reported this issue at my 10K and 30K. Kit was installed at 45K as it was finnally available as a TSB.
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Old December 20th, 2011, 09:13   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjdio View Post
Is there anything we can do to avoid this in the known bad conditions? Like a WOT blast, say down an on-ramp or something? Clean stuff out before shutdown? Or does it really not matter what we do?

Blocking off the IC with piping might help a bit, but OP states he still has issues. If the IC can't get below freezing ice can't form.

Other end of the spectrum, Idling a bit before shut down might help warm up the IC to melt a bit of the ice, but not sure.

Deleting EGR is always an option but not a cheap one.
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Old December 20th, 2011, 10:20   #11
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Hard to tell who should get the 'fix' and who shouldn't. I'm of the opinion that everyone should get it as its a known issue with a known 'solution.' Limiting installation of the cold weather IC kit only to those who live in cold climates does not make much sense to me. What about all those other people who live in climates slightly more mild yet spend a lot of time during the winter in colder climates... i.e. ski season.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=302863
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Old December 21st, 2011, 08:34   #12
Rather Be Biking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjdio View Post
Is there anything we can do to avoid this in the known bad conditions? Like a WOT blast, say down an on-ramp or something? Clean stuff out before shutdown? Or does it really not matter what we do?
Yes. Block off your lower grill with foam pipe insulation when the weather is below freezing. I had a few of these hydrolock situations, all during the same freeze thaw cycles you describe. That was back in 2009. I've blocked the lower grill since then and have not had a problem. Finally got the new IC kit installed this October. Blocking the lower grill blocks some freezing air to the intercooler, but leaves it cool enough, at least when the temp is below 40F, to do its job. The engine also warms up quicker. I'll probably put them back in this year, but right now I'm testing the IC kit for effectiveness.
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Old December 21st, 2011, 08:38   #13
Nickofari
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Add me to the list of those suffering a no-start condition. It has become an annual event for me now (3rd year in a row) when temps fluctuate - humid/cold/rain/etc.
Called dealer in Manchester, NH who said there were 3 TDIs in the shop having the intercooler and hoses drained. He didn't mention a "kit" from VW to fix this. Does anyone have a part # or other reference?
Any way to remedy this at home (w/out) flatbed to VW?
Thanks.
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Old December 21st, 2011, 09:41   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rather Be Biking View Post
Yes. Block off your lower grill with foam pipe insulation when the weather is below freezing. I had a few of these hydrolock situations, all during the same freeze thaw cycles you describe. That was back in 2009. I've blocked the lower grill since then and have not had a problem. Finally got the new IC kit installed this October. Blocking the lower grill blocks some freezing air to the intercooler, but leaves it cool enough, at least when the temp is below 40F, to do its job. The engine also warms up quicker. I'll probably put them back in this year, but right now I'm testing the IC kit for effectiveness.

My lower grill was blocked off for about a week before this happened

Today is day 3 of VWoA not having any phones that work !!!!!!!!

I did remove both her's and my intercooler hose AFTER we started having issues. A few drops came out, but I think the majority of the fluid already was sucked into the engine at that point.

To make matters worse: Now I have a frothy mixture under my oil fill cap, and so does she. I'm guessing what happened was this: We crank and get about 1 revolution.... 30 seconds later, that pressure that built in the cylinder finally bled out (past the rings, into the crankcase) and allowed us to rotate the engine 1 or 2 more times. Repeat


By the end of it, it finally turned over fast just like it should. I had to crank and hold about 30 seconds until 1 cylinder caught, then 2 or 3, then rough idle and it cleared up. I assume the long cranking was due to the little bit of water in the cylinders were absorbing the heat of compression and evaporating off. Then the temps got high enough to start combustion.

I guess I have to look into how hard it is to pull glow plugs/injectors, crank to blow out the fluid, then try again. Putting water in my oil is by NO means acceptable!!
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Old December 21st, 2011, 10:03   #15
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I have had this 2x on my 09.

First time was less than 3 months since purchacing it brand new.
Second time was the following year.

Both times the weather had been below freezing, but with slushy road conditions that prevented any chance giving the car a good run.

No issuses last year running with a non fuctioning exhaust flap, keeping fingers crossed for this year.

Was wondering if it would be a possible fix, to tune out the lp egr under below freezing conditions.
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