The "What did you do to your B4 today" thread...

yea. $511 for the fuse box and afew other more minor parts(not sure how much they cost) and 7.2 hrs @$118/hr. Also the service advisor sent me a pic of a red multi wire plug that goes into the fuse box that is melted a little where the green and white wires connect to the fuse box. He said there is corrosion in the fuse box that probably caused the melting. So he said the tech cant push it back into the fuse box. So now I cant drive it.

Ripoff

98fire said:

yea. $511 for the fuse box and afew other more minor parts(not sure how much they cost) and 7.2 hrs @$118/hr. Also the service advisor sent me a pic of a red multi wire plug that goes into the fuse box that is melted a little where the green and white wires connect to the fuse box. He said there is corrosion in the fuse box that probably caused the melting. So he said the tech cant push it back into the fuse box. So now I cant drive it.

Click to expand...

If you didn't consent in writing to 7 hours of diagnostic work I would challenge them on it. That is an obscene amount of time to spend figuring out what's wrong unless you have the customers explicit consent.

98fire said:

yea. $511 for the fuse box and afew other more minor parts(not sure how much they cost) and 7.2 hrs @$118/hr. Also the service advisor sent me a pic of a red multi wire plug that goes into the fuse box that is melted a little where the green and white wires connect to the fuse box. He said there is corrosion in the fuse box that probably caused the melting. So he said the tech cant push it back into the fuse box. So now I cant drive it.

Click to expand...

The damaged connector is H1, H2 or J. Those are the red connectors at the fuse box.

I don't know about you but I couldn't stomach a repair bill of that magnitude for that sort of work since I could do it myself and most likely have the parts the dealership is replacing as spares tucked away.

It's your call but If you have another vehicle to drive and can get it home you could probably accumulate the parts you need to repair it for significantly less cost. Then again if you're not inclined to do that sort of work that probably answers your question right there.

Steve

not totaly inclined yet but am getting motivated. Any suggestions on info like a manual or other directions to guide me?

98fire said:

not totaly inclined yet but am getting motivated. Any suggestions on info like a manual or other directions to guide me?

Click to expand...

I responded to your other post, but a good wiring schematic is here.

That price is INSANE for that work. The fusebox is easy to remove and deal with since it's all plug-n-play.

98fire said:

not totaly inclined yet but am getting motivated. Any suggestions on info like a manual or other directions to guide me?

Click to expand...

You'll want to review this:

http://www.a2resource.com/electrical/CE2.html

Which basically captures what you'll be working on in the car. It's not terribly difficult but you'll want to get the list of things they were going to replace besides the fuse box, that will have the part numbers of the things you might need besides the fuse box.

Replacing the fuse / relay panel is not difficult, the connectors only go into one position, you can't install them in the wrong place by design. Also, the color codes help you identify what you're working on.

Any of the connectors that have melted will likely need to be replaced, which will mean releasing the wires from the melted connector, which can be a little difficult and tedious but with the correct tools it can be done. Or you can just cut the connector apart too if it's melted too badly.

Good luck

Steve

edit: Ha...Abacus already posted the A2resource link...

Great minds think alike.

LET THERE BE LIGHT - a preview

The big box arrived in the mail tonight:



$86 for ~$400 glass German angel eye lights.

ECS Tuning is where I bought them; here is the manufacturer's site.



Very purdy.



The matched Hella FF75 fogs and driving light boxes in the first pic have been sitting and waiting to be installed for a while.

Edit: the general appearance and dimensions of the Hellas, fogs and driving both:



They will be installed, I believe, as per this very rough diagram:



Driving lights in the stock fog location, with a bezel to cover around it + the ugly stock clear reflector. Fog lights in the far corners of the scoop, with a bezel that wraps around the back of it to keep Ohioan road salt off the Hella mounting bracket (reviews say the brackets do very poorly in the winter).

I would love feedback on this intended placement.


(Note: this is all preparatory, this weekend is still the Big Game hunt for the oil leaks. )

Passat B4 FK Angel Eyes - further initial thoughts

For a bit more data:

My phone isn't turning the image over, but on both lights it says glass lenses, plastic housing:



"Do the haloes light up/how?" Two small bulbs per ring it appears:



Finally, where was this manufactured? All language on the lights in English, nothing on box, packaging, or lights with country of origin. Based on the heavy weight, relatively good looking sealant around the glass edges, and lack of plastic flashing (leftover from crappy manufacturing molds), signs point to European. Based on the flash lines on the lamp housing itself shown below, I am a bit worried...

From a different product page ( http://www.fk-shop.de/en/Exterior-Tuning/Door-handles/chrome-Door-handle-covers-fit-for-Mazda-2-Typ-DE-chrome.html) on their site:

FK has its own tool for ABS injection molded parts.

Click to expand...

They also mention a 6 month warranty for their FK brand (http://www.fk-shop.de/en/Tuning/Our-Warranty/):

We sell original FK Automotive products with a minimum warranty of 6 months.

Click to expand...

... maybe it is made in Germany?

EDIT: I took the direct approach/oh god why am I still awake:



I will report back any findings

A sample photo of the internals, maybe other folks can weigh in on the apparent level of quality here:

Thanks Steve Addy. That is a pretty cool diagram. The parts they said i need are the fuse box 2 connectors and a load reduction relay. Good call on getting the part number. I'll do that.

Hey mrbrefast. I'm guessing those are pretty cool lights ya got there. Up here in Alaska they really come in handy. Someday- probably a few winters from now I'll add some to my ride. Speaking of my ride (it sounds a bit impersonal) is it common for tdi clubbers to have names for their cars? My dodge 12 valve was Butkus and my 94 yota was mouse. This new passat - I don't know, the only thing that comes to mind right now is a neurologically deficient theme. (not quiet lol, but deffinitley an inner chuckel). Maybe I should hold off on naming it till I'm more accuainted.

As a rule I don't give inanimate objects names, despite them behaving like living beings at times.

wire trace

So without knowing for sure, I think the dealership in the price they quoted is including (beside the fuse box) a new connector and some wire. If this is the wire for J #1, does that mean I need to run new wire from that point back to the other end of it? And if so is that tough to do? There is also a load reduction relay involved and is that complicated? So now after they pulled the connector they say they cant get it back in because of the melting and corrosion that has occured. I just think that if it came out - why wont it go back in? And scence they pulled it out and now my headlights dont work at all should they be responible to make them work again? Originally they said I could have it back thursday night and now I cant get it back till monday at the earliest. So I went in there Thursday night and asked to have the ignition switch that came off when they did the factory recall and told me I couldnt have it so I asked to look at it and they said it was alredy packaged up to send back to whoever that was involved with the recall. Is that usual not to show a customer the removed part and to already have it packaged up for shipping a matter of hours after removing it not considering that the customer might like to at least see it? So now I have to do something to get at least the headlights operative to at least be able to drive it. Is it reasonable for me to insist that they make the headlights work without charging me before they give it back to me?

FK is made in China or Taiwan. There are plenty of reviews on those lights.

98fire, when you get the car back, drop the fuse panel and check it out. If you're lucky, only the plug will need to be replaced. There's a slide lock that needs to be slid to one side to remove, then lock the plugs into the panel.

It's a rats nest behind that panel, with a lot of plugs that aren't used. It may be a good idea to start taping those off, prior to disconnecting anything, so you don't get confused when reassembly starts.

-Todd

Abacus said:

Great minds think alike.

Click to expand...

I know Jason who put that site together and it really is a reference that's used by the entire world of VW enthusiasts. I have a tab open in my browser to A2resource CE2 electrics all the time, I use it that much and go back to it that often.

It's done a lot to demystify the realm of electrics in the vw community.

98fire said:

So without knowing for sure, I think the dealership in the price they quoted is including (beside the fuse box) a new connector and some wire. If this is the wire for J #1, does that mean I need to run new wire from that point back to the other end of it? And if so is that tough to do? There is also a load reduction relay involved and is that complicated? So now after they pulled the connector they say they cant get it back in because of the melting and corrosion that has occured. I just think that if it came out - why wont it go back in? And scence they pulled it out and now my headlights dont work at all should they be responible to make them work again? Originally they said I could have it back thursday night and now I cant get it back till monday at the earliest. So I went in there Thursday night and asked to have the ignition switch that came off when they did the factory recall and told me I couldnt have it so I asked to look at it and they said it was alredy packaged up to send back to whoever that was involved with the recall. Is that usual not to show a customer the removed part and to already have it packaged up for shipping a matter of hours after removing it not considering that the customer might like to at least see it? So now I have to do something to get at least the headlights operative to at least be able to drive it. Is it reasonable for me to insist that they make the headlights work without charging me before they give it back to me?

Click to expand...

ToddA1 is correct, rats nest back in there but it's not impossible to work with it. When ever I get involved in electrics I tend to reorganize everything back there and sort it out so it will be easier if I have to get back in there in the future.

Hopefully you will only need a few colored connectors and not any wiring or terminal ends.

Also agree with ToddA1, if you have no experience back there I'd pull the driver seat out, drop the knee bar on the driver side and begin marking unused connectors with masking tape so you know those don't go anywhere.

First thing to do though is assess the situation when the car gets home. Get the fuse box down and take a look at the problem on the back.

And finally, don't just assume that it was corrosion that caused the problem you experienced. Look for any home made wiring under hood or behind dash that might suggest someone did something they shouldn't have or wired around a problem or did some 'custom' work. You don't want to go to the effort of fixing this to have it happen again right after it's all done.

Good luck!

Steve

But now you know one of the reasons we tell people to avoid the dealership. No, I don't think you can say they're on the hook since you had problems with it initially. Yes, you're getting the song and dance on the ignition switch and now have to wonder if it was even changed.

It's just a few of the reasons most of us work on our own cars.

I found the problem with dealerships these days is they have mostly young mechanics who haven't worked on a B4 before. They do not know the standard B4 problems. Better off doing stuff yourself or get help from another enthusiast.

Unfortunately, that's mechanics in general. It's unfair to group all of them together, but the sad truth is they're out there to make money.

Last year I bought a 97 B4 in pretty sad shape. In the car was a lot of the original paperwork from the original owner, (since new) which I still have.

For some reason, the owner took the car to Midas on 01/24/09 and they sold him everything cat back for a total of $778.39! Mind you, the car is 2 years old... no clue why this wouldn't have been covered under warranty. Honestly, it looks like the stock exhaust system.... who knows if anything was replaced.

-Todd

Um, your math is off. I think you meant 1/24/99.

Yes, it is unfair that we tend to lump unrelated people together, but I think it is human nature.

I bought a B4V with 308K on it from the second owner, who had it 11 years and put 180,000 miles on it. In that time she only had it serviced at select garages and dealerships. During her ownership she spent over $24,000 on the car and it still had 8 fault codes existing when I bought it. The final straw was when a dealership told her she needed a new ECU for $1,600. I replaced the hose inside and that corrected the code. Most of the codes were due to past shoddy work by dealers and garages. My father owns it now and it's a strong runner that hasn't had a code pop since I bought it.

Well, now I feel like an ass... It is '09 meaning the stock parts were replaced after 12 years.

-Todd

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

I had a garage custom make my 2.25" cat-back exhaust for $240 but then I have no mufflers.

I want those lights! So tired of dull plastic lenses (even after polishing them)

Hey everyone. I certianly appreciate all the input helping me sort through all this. It's a steep learning curve. In the circuit diagram I am curious if any one knows where the H1 #1 position slot wire for the headlights goes because I think that's what I'm up against.

98fire said:

Hey everyone. I certianly appreciate all the input helping me sort through all this. It's a steep learning curve. In the circuit diagram I am curious if any one knows where the H1 #1 position slot wire for the headlights goes because I think that's what I'm up against.

Click to expand...

H1/1 (H1/2 also) goes from the red connector at the fuse box directly to the ignition switch. H1/1 is large gauge red with black stripe and H1/2 is large gauge red. Steve

Oil cooler o-ring and oil filter housing-to-block gasket replacement, part 1

FordGuy100 said:

I want those lights! So tired of dull plastic lenses (even after polishing them)

Click to expand...

I will be doing a careful comparison of before and after lighting options with photos and measurements of light beam pattern and distance, eventually. One thing worth considering if your stock lights still have functional beam aiming adjustments (unlike my driver's side), get another set of the high beam bulbs and file off the tabs - and they fit without a problem in the low beam emplacements. So long as you aim them down a bit, you will have *excellent* light and not blind anyone.

Maybe next weekend shall I do the above light work on my car, we shall see... because THIS weekend, by popular request...

tdidieselbobny said:

Ok-pull it up on ramps(or put it on jackstands if no ramps) and chock the wheels.You NEED to find the source of that leak-I would re-check the turbo supply line ,oil cooler seal,is the oil filter tight enough? Hate to see you put all the time into the interior only to have the engine crap out from no oil......

Click to expand...

... I am doing this:



Hunting the remaining source(s) of the prodigious oil leaks from my car.

Based on this sort of spray pattern which is a new development amongst the oily mess...



... our family friend mechanic and I were able to determine it is something along or on the oil filter housing - the rest of the engine is oily and/or drippy because of air pressure + oil pressure mucking it all up. I don't even want to talk about all the times I thought I had found The Leak, cleaned it up... and found it was just accumulated oil which was dripping, not a source.

So after 22 or 23 minutes of varying RPM driving with BG 109 (per Lug Nut's post, in this thread), I drained the oil and let it drip for a while. The old drain plug is on the left with a crush washer reused an unknown number of times (another possible leak point); the brand new magnetic plug is on the right:



For the benefit of others who do this for the first time, a photo of the filter housing pipe coming through the oil cooler. You will need a 27mm deep socket to get that slim nut as well as a 1/2" drive swivel adaptor. You will then need a 3/8" internal pipe wrench, to use its elliptical pattern movement within the pipe to loosen it (rather than potentially damaging threads by gripping the pipe with pliers).

I don't want to talk about how many times I went to the hardware store today, to get other adapters or tools unexpectedly.

Anyways, the aforementioned photo:



... now removed and next to the internal pipe wrench (for your referential edification), it is very clean because constant oil immersion, and appears to have been tightened enough to avoid leaks itself:



So after a lot of fighting to get this far, I had the oil cooler off and could pull the old gasket. And it was the old gasket - I believe it could very well be the original one, because though it wasn't cracked, the rubber material was harder than plastic, extremely compressed, and was in the right physical location for a lot of the oil spray originating in the engine.

Right side is the old gasket, sorry for any lack of clarity:



Then... I got to start fighting with the goddamned allan bolts holding the oil filter housing to the block. The top one was easiest for me, because I removed the vacuum pump and several wires, and then I loosened the plastic tube going to the CCV puck.

Wat:



I have driven the car 350 or so miles since rebuilding the heater core + soundproofing the interior, and those miles were with a goddamned acorn in the lines.

My initial reaction was unbecoming someone who has trained to be a pastor.

My secondary reaction was "wow, my car is even more stupidly reliable than I thought - is this some kind of elite level of bio-diesel?"

Nevertheless, I got the top bolt out tonight, and then just had a hell of a time with the lower two. Partially for a lack of the right swivel for my ratchet, which I went out and got, then came home and called it a night.

The night closes with the oil cooler detached and (as far as I have been able to inspect in a visual or tactile way, free from dents or holes) and 1/3 of the oil filter housing unbolted:



Tomorrow shall see me fight the last two bolts, then scrape the stock gasket off the head and install the embossed metal replacement, then rebuild the hole thing.

... and test drive it, and hope and pray the ecological disaster oil leaks are gone.

Part II of this post to follow tomorrow.

mrbrefast said:

Tomorrow shall see me fight the last two bolts, then scrape the stock gasket off the head and install the embossed metal replacement, then rebuild the hole thing.

... and test drive it, and hope and pray the ecological disaster oil leaks are gone.

Part II of this post to follow tomorrow.

Click to expand...

The gasket shouldn't be any problem at all, it should also be a metal gasket like the replacement you bought new.

Nice acorn!

Steve

I know that oil drain plug gasket was new last February when I changed the oil after breaking in the new cam & lifters because I always use new ones and keep a dozen on hand.

Are you sure the oil filter mating surface is ok? In two pictures above it looks like there is a blemish in it.

Bomgaar's (local Farm type store) was having a 17% off everything that fit in their paper bag sale so a few friends and I popped out to see if there was anything we needed.

I had forgotten from my last visit that they had several different sizes of PS that you don't see in other venues. The last time I was here I just grabbed the 80 oz jug that I typically get but today I opted for the gallon container of concentrated stuff. Look at how many gallons that size treats!!



Here's the dilution rate for the concentrate:



And if the gallon isn't enough for you there's always the 2.5 gallon size. That one treats 3750 gallons!

Oil cooler o-ring and oil filter housing-to-block gasket replacement, part 2

Abacus said:

I know that oil drain plug gasket was new last February when I changed the oil...

Click to expand...

Good point - though technically reused once, when I did the Maryland oil change @ 10000 miles!

OK so today was a far less stressful day because I got the right size (3/8") swivel instead of half-assing things with a 1/2" swivel and being mad that it was tough to maneuver.

After successfully removing the filter housing unit, I was glad to see that the metal edges were very clean and free from marring:




The stock metal gasket was stuck on the head, of course, amidst the mess around it:



... but once I got it off, I was still surprised at how PERFECTLY flat it was at this point. Yes, 20 years on the car, I know... but flat enough to be mistaken for being manufactured that way:



So much work over the past two days to fight to get these stupid pieces (front) and replace them with their counterparts (rear):



A severe cleansing of, well, everything ensured. The filter housing looks brand new:



I even found the secret decoder ring manufacturer's stamp behind the vacuum pump which tells of the year it was actually produced:



The view of the oil cooler from the bottom shows (Sharpie for emphasis of its location) a notch or ding somehow, but one seemingly incapable of any leaks:



But the top is in excellent shape:



SO.

Refilled with oil, put in the MOA additive which came with the BG109 I bought on Ebay and ran through yesterday, test drive. Test drive up to 4300 RPM up a few very steep hills in lower gears, 55 or 60 mph in higher gears, a lot of starting and stopping - I tried to do a mix of things over 30 miles of test driving.

Got home, put it back up on the ramps and:

1) the oil filter area was *sparkling* clean still, not a drop or a drip or a EXXON-VALDEZ of oil anywhere (where there were multiple before). It is still not clear to me which gasket, the oil cooler and/or the filter housing, was so very bad - but between 1 and 2 of the BAD oil leaks has been fixed!!!

2) This:



Many thanks to Abacus for his help all throughout this via phone or messenger - one instance being his informing me that the above CV joint is immediately below the turbo and its oil feed line (the likely culprit for the remaining leak) and above that is the valve cover gasket, which he helped me replace in person back in February. This seems to be a strong indicator that the remaining leak is said turbo feed line.

The night closed with me installing wiring loom on the electrical for trailer I built back in May, and then bedding it down into winterized storage mode (plywood walls detached and covered, pretty much):



The saga continues - I may try and install the new FK angel eyes later this week for testing purposes. For certain, I will be grabbing degreaser from work and cleaning the engine bay to help look for other leak points.

Sealed sunroof glass to frame. It came loose on the thruway. Thankfully it didn't go for a flight. Cleaned it up good, gorilla glue setting currently. Will have to see how it works.