Talk me into / out of this: AHU in 51 chev pickup

J.P.

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Black 05 b5.5V/6spd w/274k miles (daily). Silver 02 Golf/5spd w/240k miles (fun 1). Mint Tornado Red 01 Golf/5spd w/440k (ALH still perfect!!!).
So there is a gentleman selling an AHU mated to a Toyota W series 5 spd not too far away. I have a 51 chev 1/2 ton that is not getting much use anymore because it needs some updates. I have a 85 jag XJ6 IFS sitting in the garage ready to install, and will need to pull the motor when I do that work. The AHU for sale has me thinking.....
My 02 golf has been essentially trouble free for 220k, love the torque and the fuel economy. With mods, the golf currently has about the same torque as the engine in the truck (chev v6 w/ 5spd), and the golf is really fun to drive. The truck weighs 3500lbs, and will probably be 4k lbs when in use (gear hauler). Pretty lousy aerodynamics, big tires.
If I had a fuel efficient and fun gear hauler it would get a lot more use.
What do you think??
JP
 

J.P.

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Black 05 b5.5V/6spd w/274k miles (daily). Silver 02 Golf/5spd w/240k miles (fun 1). Mint Tornado Red 01 Golf/5spd w/440k (ALH still perfect!!!).
More info

With the carbed v6, the truck gets around 21mpg highway, around 17 for mixed driving. I tend to take the VW instead of the truck when I drive to the mtb trailhead because of the economy.
I told myself that if I put the IFS on and could get FE in the high 20s I would use the truck more. Original plan was to put a later model fuel injected 4.3l V6 or a 4.8l LS in to *attempt* to achieve that. If I could get FE in the 30s it would become my summer daily driver.
I've studied tons of the swap threads (and learned a ton from all of you), with the desire to swap a tdi into a eurovan. If I swapped the truck, it *could* give me what I was after - a fun, fuel efficient gear hauler.
I see the Eurovan guys getting in the 30s with vehicles of similar size. My aerodynamics are probably worse (big rounded stepside fenders, etc). My rear tires are big (255/70-15s). Rear axle is a 10 bolt posi with 4:10 gears. Current trans has a 0.7 OD gear (borg warner planetary gear OD). The W series likely has 0.85 OD gear.
The engine trans package has AHU, acme adapter, clutch and slave cyl, toyota W series (W55 or 56), ECU. The seller is not real familiar with tdis (he bought for a swap into a model A pickup, sounds like he got overwhelmed with the electrics, then went gas) so he is fuzzy on the ECU, IP, and turbo he has. He did say he has both manual and electric IPs.
JP
 

jmodge

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2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh
If you are interested, I have a complete, untitled, operable, rusty, 4wd, 1985 K5 Jimmy 6.2 that would slide under that pickup. $600, pm me if interested. Oh, by the way, I say “don’t do it, put a 4wd with a 6.2 under it”
 

J.P.

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Location
Northern MI
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Black 05 b5.5V/6spd w/274k miles (daily). Silver 02 Golf/5spd w/240k miles (fun 1). Mint Tornado Red 01 Golf/5spd w/440k (ALH still perfect!!!).
Interesting! But not the direction I want to go. 2WD with IFS it will be.

I'm building out my list of pros and cons for the swap. I welcome the opinions of the knowledgeable ones on the forum too!

PROS
Truck becomes diesel with an engine I know, trust.
I get a tdi adventure vehicle w/o the expense of a eurovan and swap.
I think I can fit a fully dressed ALH or AHU in there and not have to change accessory locations, or use different belts, keeping it simple.
Truck gets lighter, gets much better fuel economy.
There is plenty of room for a big FMIC.


CONS
Truck gets more complicated
Some parts to make the swap will be expensive (tdi to trans adapter, starter, etc).
I will need to change timing belts based on age, not mileage
it will hurt the value of the truck

QUESTIONS
best gearing for the tdi in a truck with these aerodynamics and weight?
ALH / 1Z / AHU?
What level of tune / mods would I need for acceptable engine / truck match?
mechanical or electric? (I followed what jaysonspaceman did with his VNT mtdi build with interest)
Toyota W series trans up to it? Use my trans?
 

ManicMechanic

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Saint Cloud, Florida
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03 Golf, 00 Golf, 02 Beetle
While the 6.2 gm might be hated by some it might be a good engine for what your trying. My sister has one with over 300k on it. It's in a 2 wheel drive 82 chevy pickup. It'll run all day at 80mph and get 23 mpg. No to bad for a brick.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
We have a member here that has an AHU in a similar vintage Studebaker pickup, with a manual gearbox from an S10. It actually runs pretty good.
 

vtpsd

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Location
Vermont
TDI
03 jsw TDI, audi 90 AHU swap
I would use an ALH over and AHU. More of them around, and a better engine all around. Swapping difficulty is the same between each.
 

J.P.

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Aug 14, 2007
Location
Northern MI
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Black 05 b5.5V/6spd w/274k miles (daily). Silver 02 Golf/5spd w/240k miles (fun 1). Mint Tornado Red 01 Golf/5spd w/440k (ALH still perfect!!!).
Thanks for the responses. I don't know 6.2s well enough to be able to make a determination if the engine is solid or not on basic inspection. A tdi weighs half as much and is pretty straightforward (at least I understand what it takes) to make as much or more power.
I need to determine if the Toyota W trans / Acme adapter bits is worth the purchase. Anybody have an idea of what a *hardly used* setup like that is worth? (Acme TDI adapter, machined flywheel, pressure plate w/ disk, starter, slave cyl, W55 or W56 trans with shifter).
My trans has decent gears for a tdi swap. However the Toyota W trans has a closer spread between 3/4/5 but a 0.85 OD (mine is 0.7)
I also see that user CF-FZD is shredding toyota transmissions behind his ALH in a F100 :( http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=5324371&postcount=61
If I keep my trans (saginaw 4sp w/ BW R10 tailhousing) and use this adapter, it may cost more than the Acme W56 option http://gastodiesel.tdconversions.com/adapter/ $1125!
Anyone know if there are other options for going this route (tdi to chev smallblock bellhousing?)?
 

PickleRick

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Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
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05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
I would keep the Toyota transmission, even if it's 4wd go to the local junk yard and get a 2wd one and unload yours on Craigslist.

Depending on tire size and how much committing you do on the free way you may not like the 4:10 gears

With 40%overdrive and 33 inch tires on my last diesel swapped 4x4 i really wished i had 3:73 gears as it was my daily driver and ended up on the freeway just about every weekend back then.

I have not heard many complain about the strength of Toyotas w series transmissions. They came in some supras as well as 4 runners and mini trucks. Soms of those mini trucks were 1 ton uhauls or rvs. Some had turbo engines on them and plenty of lifted, loaded, big tire rigs out there abusing them without issue.

The lack of dowels in the acme adapter kit can lead to alignment issues which eat input shaft bearings.

A combination of too light a flywheel on a diesel and racing type unsprung clutch can also cause issues.

People have been adding extra heavy 30 plus lbs flywheels to their yotas for years, finding one aftermarket wont be an issue.

If reusing that acme adapter id see how out of round it is and add dowels after correcting it.

If that k5 has an overdrive transmission and solid front axle id jump all over that deal if you were local.
 
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J.P.

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Location
Northern MI
TDI
Black 05 b5.5V/6spd w/274k miles (daily). Silver 02 Golf/5spd w/240k miles (fun 1). Mint Tornado Red 01 Golf/5spd w/440k (ALH still perfect!!!).
With 40%overdrive and 33 inch tires on my last diesel swapped 4x4 i really wished i had 3:73 gears as it was my daily driver and ended up on the freeway just about every weekend back then.
What vehicle, and what engine / trans / axle did you have in it?

I've got a Saginaw w/ 0.7 final, but good to know about the Toyota Transmissions. Thanks for the info about the flywheel!
 

PickleRick

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05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
4bd2t 3.9 isuzu and a ford 4 speed rts top loader found in 85 to 87 f150 and full size bronco. Factory land cruiser 4:10 axles.. 67 fj40

The gear spread was too spaced out for a diesel.

The 1.9 will be a little happier above 3k than the big isuzu but not by much. Gearing is everything in a diesel swap. It can make or break the swap. The gear spacing in the tranny can also make it a chore to drive if you're leaving the torque band on each shift. Unless its light weight i dont like 4 speeds for diesels, on a sbc its less of an issue but it makes an already slow diesel engine worse. Tow up a hill with a v10 f250 vs the same year 7.3 on the 4 speed 4r100, the 7.3 better get a running start
 
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J.P.

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Northern MI
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Black 05 b5.5V/6spd w/274k miles (daily). Silver 02 Golf/5spd w/240k miles (fun 1). Mint Tornado Red 01 Golf/5spd w/440k (ALH still perfect!!!).
Excellent info. Thanks!

My 5 gears are very similar to the O2J in my TDI. The spacing between 4 & 5 is taller (more like having 0.658 5th in the O2J) so I could keep my trans if I can live with the complexity of the dash knob and solenoid for OD.

Looks like there are good gearing options with the Borg Warner T5 and NV3500 that were behind the 4.3l V6, and the Toyota W series transmissions.

I measured up the ALH and it will drop in with no modifications to alternator, A/C, PS pump locations. Plenty of room for an AFN manifold and bigger turbo if I want. So it looks like it will require oil cooler relocation to accomodate motor mounts, and cooling lines / coolant glowplug relocation on the back of the engine.

Regarding power - it looks like with a stage 3 or 4 tune, nozzles, FMIC, and bigger turbo I can exceed the HP and TQ of the V6. I want a target of 240-250 TQ around 2000 rpm

Now to figure out the electrical complexity of doing the swap in a vehicle with almost no electronics. And start estimating the cost of the swap.
 

J.P.

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Aug 14, 2007
Location
Northern MI
TDI
Black 05 b5.5V/6spd w/274k miles (daily). Silver 02 Golf/5spd w/240k miles (fun 1). Mint Tornado Red 01 Golf/5spd w/440k (ALH still perfect!!!).
What motor mount isolators are you rear wheel drive TDI swappers using? Is the vibration with your isolators similar to a stock TDI, or more vibration?
 

PickleRick

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Greenville sc
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05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Obviously the liquid mounts wil absorb the most vibration.
My 4bd1t and 4bd2t engines have WAY more vibration than a tdi, i used solid mounts and never had issues. In one swap i used the factory Toyota land cruiser mounts, the other i used the factory Isuzu NPR truck mounts. 700+ pound 3.9 liter engines. 1t is DI the 2t is IDI. I had to idle them up from 800 to about 1000 to make idle less rough but that was a turn of a screw. These motors are similar to a Cummins 4bt
These were both lifted front and rear leaf spring vehicles with knobby mud tires. Liquid mounts would have been a waste. On a rat rod or off road rig you wouldn't miss the comfort of liquid mounts as many diesel vehicles dont use them factory anyway.
If I'm building a daily driver that i want comfort in (audi allroad for example) im using the liquid mounts.
Im still tooling around with a tdi boat conversion, id like to use liquid mounts in it but i need to verify it wont add too much flex. Too much flex from the mounts will eat my gimball u joints.
Im not up to speed on the mods needed to get 175ish hp and 250 ish tq on an alh but id assume at that point you'd need head studs, maybe rods? Just something to research.
Its been a while since i looked. I needed 300ft lbs torque range and started buying up the bhw motors as they only needed a tune and balance shaft delete to be reliable and put out v6 or even small v8 power (305)
 
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[486]

Top Post Dawg
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Mar 1, 2014
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MN
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02 golf ALH
What motor mount isolators are you rear wheel drive TDI swappers using? Is the vibration with your isolators similar to a stock TDI, or more vibration?
you can usually fit a lot more flywheel mass into any adapter bellhousing, with more rotating inertia the TDI actually runs very smooth

kind of like the 4bt bread vans with chevy pattern flywheel housings are nasty shakers, because they've got a tiny amount of rotating mass relative to what you're asking out of them
 

J.P.

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Northern MI
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Black 05 b5.5V/6spd w/274k miles (daily). Silver 02 Golf/5spd w/240k miles (fun 1). Mint Tornado Red 01 Golf/5spd w/440k (ALH still perfect!!!).
If I'm building a daily driver that i want comfort in (audi allroad for example) im using the liquid mounts.
Liquid mounts it will be! This is not a rat rod. I should load up some pics.
Found some BMW ones that will make fabbing mounts easy.

Im not up to speed on the mods needed to get 175ish hp and 250 ish tq on an alh but id assume at that point you'd need head studs, maybe rods? Just something to research.
Its been a while since i looked. I needed 300ft lbs torque range and started buying up the bhw motors as they only needed a tune and balance shaft delete to be reliable and put out v6 or even small v8 power
Good tip on the BHW. It may be a cheaper alternative. I just know the ALH/AHU really well and my research indicates right around 170hp as the threshold for not needing to do the bottom end (head studs yes).
 

J.P.

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Location
Northern MI
TDI
Black 05 b5.5V/6spd w/274k miles (daily). Silver 02 Golf/5spd w/240k miles (fun 1). Mint Tornado Red 01 Golf/5spd w/440k (ALH still perfect!!!).
you can usually fit a lot more flywheel mass into any adapter bellhousing, with more rotating inertia the TDI actually runs very smooth
Thx for the tip. I've seen some other references to a heavier flywheel. Should make my selection for a v8 pattern adapter easy.
 

curtis75

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London, ON
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none, yet
Liquid mounts are tuned to a specific frequency/amplitude and can do multiple things. Some are designed for idle, some for highway etc. Depending on what mount you get it might do nothing for you or make it worse. I would say try to get fluid mounts from a 4cyl diesel RWD, if you are going to pursue them. FWD typically hangs the powertrain from the mounts and has to react axle torque, and deals with a lot more suspension inputs.
 

evguy1

Vendor
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Feb 8, 2014
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Erington, BC, Canada
TDI
2000 Jeep Cherokee TDI, 2008 Jeep JKU TDI
Thx for the tip. I've seen some other references to a heavier flywheel. Should make my selection for a v8 pattern adapter easy.
I now have some high mass flywheels for the Chevy, Jeep and Toyota.
Not on my website yet but in stock.
 

RoundHouse

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May 23, 2001
Location
Ga USA
I used to have a 95 4runner that I swapped In a 1KZT 3 liter turbo diesel from a European 4 runner

I bought the drivetrain in Europe and it had a five speed R151 maybe I’m not exactly sure

The gear ratios were perfect
Although I did have to swap the axle gears to a more diesel friendly ratio

Either that or install larger tires
You could cram some taller tires under the Stepside fenders pretty easy
 

J.P.

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Northern MI
TDI
Black 05 b5.5V/6spd w/274k miles (daily). Silver 02 Golf/5spd w/240k miles (fun 1). Mint Tornado Red 01 Golf/5spd w/440k (ALH still perfect!!!).
Thx for the info! Do you have specs and pricing on the high mass flywheels.



I now have some high mass flywheels for the Chevy, Jeep and Toyota.
Not on my website yet but in stock.
 

J.P.

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Location
Northern MI
TDI
Black 05 b5.5V/6spd w/274k miles (daily). Silver 02 Golf/5spd w/240k miles (fun 1). Mint Tornado Red 01 Golf/5spd w/440k (ALH still perfect!!!).
I need to find out what the toyota and ranger tdi swappers are using for mounts. I looked at a BHW passat today. I liked the simplicity of the BHW mount setup. Didn't get measurements but that engine does look like a viable option.





Liquid mounts are tuned to a specific frequency/amplitude and can do multiple things. Some are designed for idle, some for highway etc. Depending on what mount you get it might do nothing for you or make it worse. I would say try to get fluid mounts from a 4cyl diesel RWD, if you are going to pursue them. FWD typically hangs the powertrain from the mounts and has to react axle torque, and deals with a lot more suspension inputs.
 

PickleRick

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Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
If you're using the BHW engine id use the factory BHW liquid mounts. The factory BHW mated transmission mounts are solid.

If your donor car has leaky mounts replace with oem.
 

evguy1

Vendor
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Feb 8, 2014
Location
Erington, BC, Canada
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2000 Jeep Cherokee TDI, 2008 Jeep JKU TDI
How long does it take to add em to the website ?

I have a new website under construction which will be easier to navigate and I did not want to go to the work of updating the old site. The new site is almost ready, just waiting on me to take new (better) pictures of all my stuff. I have a lot going on here with a complete reno of the shop/office and getting one shop bay ready to rent out now that I'm downsizing.
If you need a flywheel you can email me, they are all sitting here.
 

RoundHouse

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May 23, 2001
Location
Ga USA
I have a new website under construction which will be easier to navigate and I did not want to go to the work of updating the old site. The new site is almost ready, just waiting on me to take new (better) pictures of all my stuff. I have a lot going on here with a complete reno of the shop/office and getting one shop bay ready to rent out now that I'm downsizing.
If you need a flywheel you can email me, they are all sitting here.


Be nice too if you can find a place locally that can do the 360 degree photo for the site

A guy I know that works at a place that sells industrial compressors and stuff just got the turntable and software and it’s very cool to be able to mouse over the pic and rotate it 360
 

J.P.

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Location
Northern MI
TDI
Black 05 b5.5V/6spd w/274k miles (daily). Silver 02 Golf/5spd w/240k miles (fun 1). Mint Tornado Red 01 Golf/5spd w/440k (ALH still perfect!!!).
Thanks for the info!

The GM wheel is 42lbs 163 tooth to work with my pre 86 adapter. The flywheel is $360us + shipping.
Its a steel wheel, not cast iron.
 
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