CP3 fuel pump upgrade thread

Lead_Sled

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Location
Youngsville, Lou-Z-ana
TDI
99.5 Jetta TDI
Quick question. I recently read a message that I’m in doubt about.

Does retrofitting a cp3 pump on a CJAA eliminate the need of installing a 2 micron filter?
 

Tuheeden

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2022
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2013 & 2014 Jetta sportwagon
Quick question. I recently read a message that I’m in doubt about.

Does retrofitting a cp3 pump on a CJAA eliminate the need of installing a 2 micron filter?
Here is a thread with more details: https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.ph...mon-rail-vw-alive.375803/page-29#post-5686297
The relevant line is: the 2 micron tech kit filtered the fuel before going to the injectors, and the return fuel, that way if the fuel pump failed all the chips/flakes/dust were contained and not reintroduced to the fuel tank

So putting in a CP3 eliminates the "need" for the 2micron filter because a CP3 failure will not normally introduce metal particles into the high pressure rail that then contaminated the entire fuel system.

Hope that helps
 

Lead_Sled

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Location
Youngsville, Lou-Z-ana
TDI
99.5 Jetta TDI
That looks like a good answer to me. Guess I’ll just do the cp3 conversion and continue with my stock filter system. And looking around, I found a Wix/Napa Gold filter rated at 2 microns. Part number 33037/3037 respectively.
 

ksing44

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Location
Southeast PA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
Here is a thread with more details: https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.ph...mon-rail-vw-alive.375803/page-29#post-5686297
The relevant line is: the 2 micron tech kit filtered the fuel before going to the injectors, and the return fuel, that way if the fuel pump failed all the chips/flakes/dust were contained and not reintroduced to the fuel tank

So putting in a CP3 eliminates the "need" for the 2micron filter because a CP3 failure will not normally introduce metal particles into the high pressure rail that then contaminated the entire fuel system.

Hope that helps
I have a 2 micron filter with my CP3, but it was repurposed as a polishing filter in between the OEM filter and the CP3 HPFP. The inventor of the system, "2micron", explained that it was good to have the cleanest possible fuel going through the pump. I suspect it might not be needed with the more robust CP3 pump and I've thought about removing the extra filter, but so far it's still on my car and everything seems to be working just fine.
 

CKRATDI

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2022
Location
Kansas
TDI
2014 B7 Passat TDI CKRA Se limited Edition Sport- DSG-full deletes
Guys I got a question about the factory cp4 pump on my 14 ckra nms passat. My car has the original pump and 110k miles on it. I want to replace it before It could go out, especially because it will save me money compared to buying new injectors and cleaning the whole fuel system and tank. So I'd like to replace it before this happens but I can't decide if I should get an OEM cp4 or spend around twice as much to do the cp3 upgrade. I know the cp3 is more reliable and a better pump, but is there something wrong in design with the cp4 pumps? I don't want to put in a new cp4 and then it goes out after 50k miles. Mine has made it 110k miles, but I've always used good fuel with lubricity additive in it, or maybe I'm just lucky. I don't know which to choose a new cp4 or cp3, is the cp4 really that bad to where I shouldn't use it at all? Or were failures because of bad fuel or improper fuel filter changes without priming causing premature damage? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I don't want put in a cp4 without any confidence in it lasting awhile
 

Tuheeden

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2022
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2013 & 2014 Jetta sportwagon
Guys I got a question about the factory cp4 pump on my 14 ckra nms passat. My car has the original pump and 110k miles on it. I want to replace it before It could go out, especially because it will save me money compared to buying new injectors and cleaning the whole fuel system and tank. So I'd like to replace it before this happens but I can't decide if I should get an OEM cp4 or spend around twice as much to do the cp3 upgrade. I know the cp3 is more reliable and a better pump, but is there something wrong in design with the cp4 pumps? I don't want to put in a new cp4 and then it goes out after 50k miles. Mine has made it 110k miles, but I've always used good fuel with lubricity additive in it, or maybe I'm just lucky. I don't know which to choose a new cp4 or cp3, is the cp4 really that bad to where I shouldn't use it at all? Or were failures because of bad fuel or improper fuel filter changes without priming causing premature damage? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I don't want put in a cp4 without any confidence in it lasting awhile
Well the CP4 design, if it fails, releases metal through the whole fuel system. 2Micron on this forum years ago devised a filter system that would catch the particles on both the low and high pressure side. However he also discovered a way to use a CP3 pump. This solution used the existing fuel filter and the design of the CP3 separates the high and low pressure chambers (besides also having 3 pistons, the CP4 has one..) so if the CP3 fails it does not contaminate the fuel system. He stopped making the fuel filtering system in favor of a better pump design.

So, if you never want to chance a fuel pump failure, the CP3 is a nice addition. Car usually starts quicker and some people report a 1 or 2 mpg improvement.
However if you change your fuel filter every 20k and keep an eye out for any metal, and most people run an additive like EDT (everyday Diesel treatment.. probably the best value), the CP4 can go a good long time ( I have heard of 300k).
I don't know that I would proactively change it if you have no signs. The single piston runs on a cam love and under high friction situations it can twist (there is nothing keeping it from twisting inside the pump) and thus stop rolling. So a good working pump may be better than an unknown new one.
I have 4 TDIs and I have put a CP3 in all of them when I did the first timing belt service. No tune needed. However mine are all CJA or CBE engines so keep that in mind.
 

CKRATDI

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2022
Location
Kansas
TDI
2014 B7 Passat TDI CKRA Se limited Edition Sport- DSG-full deletes
Thank you so much for the reply that's quite helpful! I've been using the hot shots EDT every fill up and anti gel in the winter since the car was low miles. Will I slowly start getting warning seeing metal flakes or is this something that can just grenade on me? I'm worried about taking it on a 24 hour round trip. Don't know it I should change the pump first or not. And I haven't found any kits for the ckra cp3 yet. Just for the other engine codes. Whitbread performance innovations said if I bring them my car they can finish developing the modified coolant neck that's needed to clear the cp3 on the ckra nms passat but I'd have to drive 15 hours to get to them
 

calimustang

Veteran Member
Joined
May 17, 2010
Location
Central FL
TDI
2011 JSW DSG (buyback, RIP), 2014 JSW TDI, 2015 Passat TDI, 2013 Jetta TDI.
will cp3 be free to you if Whitbread performance successfully develops the design from your car? I recall he offered it.
 

Tuheeden

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2022
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2013 & 2014 Jetta sportwagon
Thank you so much for the reply that's quite helpful! I've been using the hot shots EDT every fill up and anti gel in the winter since the car was low miles. Will I slowly start getting warning seeing metal flakes or is this something that can just grenade on me? I'm worried about taking it on a 24 hour round trip. Don't know it I should change the pump first or not. And I haven't found any kits for the ckra cp3 yet. Just for the other engine codes. Whitbread performance innovations said if I bring them my car they can finish developing the modified coolant neck that's needed to clear the cp3 on the ckra nms passat but I'd have to drive 15 hours to get to them
Since the screen is clean, your probably just fine. The pumps fail very rapidly, like in a matter of days so there unless you notice something and just get lucky, they are hard to catch.
However the CKRA does not seem to have the failure rate of the CBEA-CJAA so I would just keep driving it and it will likely be fine (especially since your using an additive). The fact that there is no filter or CP3 kits might mean that it's just not a big problem.
I wouldn't even change it at this point.
However if Whitbread offered to do one he might give you a great price so that he can sell that kit to hundreds of others! You would be famous!! Lol
 

CKRATDI

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2022
Location
Kansas
TDI
2014 B7 Passat TDI CKRA Se limited Edition Sport- DSG-full deletes
will cp3 be free to you if Whitbread performance successfully develops the design from your car? I recall he offered it.
From what they've said so far it would just be free labor. So I probably won't do it unless it's free, because all that driving isn't worth just free labor when a cp3 swap is something I can have done myself in a day if I had everything I needed. But it's tough because I can't find anyone who's got one. Darkiside developments claims to have one that would work but they're fully rebuilt cp3 was like 1400$ or something ridiculous. And I'm not fully confident that what they say they got will work. I know they do great work I bought they're 3" downpipe but they don't have a listing specific to my car on the website they're just verbally saying they got one and I don't really want to risk it especially with the high price it's hard to justify the swap. But if I can get this done for 1k or less in parts then it'll be worth not worrying about the cp4
 

CKRATDI

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2022
Location
Kansas
TDI
2014 B7 Passat TDI CKRA Se limited Edition Sport- DSG-full deletes
Since the screen is clean, your probably just fine. The pumps fail very rapidly, like in a matter of days so there unless you notice something and just get lucky, they are hard to catch.
However the CKRA does not seem to have the failure rate of the CBEA-CJAA so I would just keep driving it and it will likely be fine (especially since your using an additive). The fact that there is no filter or CP3 kits might mean that it's just not a big problem.
I wouldn't even change it at this point.
However if Whitbread offered to do one he might give you a great price so that he can sell that kit to hundreds of others! You would be famous!! Lol
Thats true lol. I don't know much about whitbread or if they could tune my car if needed while it's there? Malone claims I might need a tune adjustment to run that pump. I'm mainly wanted to switch the pump because I want to take this car to high miles and I don't want to worry about it. I'm also wanting to install a garret ball bearing gtb2060vklr or something similar on the car. My stock turbo blew and I ended up ordering a cheap new turbo in a pinch from a guy that I later seen bad reviews about on the forums. The turbo was from China and I had to use it because financially I had no choice but now I just want to get rid of it and put a garret on. Not wanting alot of power but wouldn't mind a slightly larger turbo because the passat has a smaller faster spooling turbo and it's constantly running 20 to 28psi at really low rpms and It's nice sometimes but for daily driving I'd rather not have to run my turbo like that unless I was really getting on it. Running full boost just accelerating like normal I don't like for some reason
 

calimustang

Veteran Member
Joined
May 17, 2010
Location
Central FL
TDI
2011 JSW DSG (buyback, RIP), 2014 JSW TDI, 2015 Passat TDI, 2013 Jetta TDI.
Ugh….. never…. Buy…. Anything from China aka Chinesium lol

Best to go with xman turbos with warranty about 2-3 years?, much more affordable and he beefied them up. Such as CR170 stuffed with 52mm billet impeller for CJAA. He has 2 different “daily driver” turbos for CKRA as far as I recall.

Almost stock version:


Beefied up version:

 

calimustang

Veteran Member
Joined
May 17, 2010
Location
Central FL
TDI
2011 JSW DSG (buyback, RIP), 2014 JSW TDI, 2015 Passat TDI, 2013 Jetta TDI.
From what they've said so far it would just be free labor. So I probably won't do it unless it's free, because all that driving isn't worth just free labor when a cp3 swap is something I can have done myself in a day if I had everything I needed. But it's tough because I can't find anyone who's got one. Darkiside developments claims to have one that would work but they're fully rebuilt cp3 was like 1400$ or something ridiculous. And I'm not fully confident that what they say they got will work. I know they do great work I bought they're 3" downpipe but they don't have a listing specific to my car on the website they're just verbally saying they got one and I don't really want to risk it especially with the high price it's hard to justify the swap. But if I can get this done for 1k or less in parts then it'll be worth not worrying about the cp4
Hmm did you try to ask him for free cp3 and labor?
 

CKRATDI

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2022
Location
Kansas
TDI
2014 B7 Passat TDI CKRA Se limited Edition Sport- DSG-full deletes
Ugh….. never…. Buy…. Anything from China aka Chinesium lol
Best to go with xman turbos with warranty about 2-3 years?, much more affordable and he beefied them up. Such as CR170 stuffed with 52mm billet impeller for CJAA. He has 2 different “daily driver” turbos for CKRA as far as I recall.
Almost stock version:
Beefied up version:
 

CKRATDI

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2022
Location
Kansas
TDI
2014 B7 Passat TDI CKRA Se limited Edition Sport- DSG-full deletes
What do you think about the gottuned turbos? They've got a garret 2060vklr ball bearing turbo on a ckra manifold. Fully rebuilt and billet wheel
 

calimustang

Veteran Member
Joined
May 17, 2010
Location
Central FL
TDI
2011 JSW DSG (buyback, RIP), 2014 JSW TDI, 2015 Passat TDI, 2013 Jetta TDI.
That looks nice. Tons of power. You need to have CP3 in order to support that turbo. Rebuilt Xman turbo for the ckra wouldnt need Cp3 upgrade.
 

CKRATDI

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2022
Location
Kansas
TDI
2014 B7 Passat TDI CKRA Se limited Edition Sport- DSG-full deletes
Darkside Developments has a cp3 kit with the coolant pipe that's needed to fit a cp3 pump on the ckra nms passat.
 

panchinho

Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Location
Tampa, FL.
TDI
2012 Jetta SportWagen TDI
Thank you so much for the reply that's quite helpful! I've been using the hot shots EDT every fill up and anti gel in the winter since the car was low miles. Will I slowly start getting warning seeing metal flakes or is this something that can just grenade on me? I'm worried about taking it on a 24 hour round trip. Don't know it I should change the pump first or not. And I haven't found any kits for the ckra cp3 yet. Just for the other engine codes. Whitbread performance innovations said if I bring them my car they can finish developing the modified coolant neck that's needed to clear the cp3 on the ckra nms passat but I'd have to drive 15 hours to get to them
You can get a kit from Fisher Motorworks that is compatible with the CKRA engine. A benefit of this kit is that it's based on a CP3 Bosch pump for BWWs, so it's easily sourced in the U.S., unlike the other CP3 kits whose pump is from Europe that are rebuilt. I picked up a band new one for $640.00 that has a lifetime warranty from FCP Euro (there was a promotion). If you get a CP3 from Europe, you'll have to send it to Europe if there is a warranty issue. With the Bosch BMW CP3, that's not the case. It's a North American pump.

Here's the URL: https://fishermotorworks.square.sit...true&sa=false&sbp=false&q=false&category_id=2

Fisher Motorworks also has a video on how to configure the pump and and install it. It doesn't cover a full install, but it should give you an idea of what to do.

Video URL:

I bought the kit for a CJAA and am going to install in the next week or two. Another benefit is the fuel line does not have to bent as much with the BMW CP3 given that the inlet is in close to the same position as on the CP4 pump, which is not the case with the CP3s from Europe.
 

T1MMBOJONES

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2020
Location
Milwaukee
TDI
03 ALH 01M wagon
You can get a kit from Fisher Motorworks that is compatible with the CKRA engine. A benefit of this kit is that it's based on a CP3 Bosch pump for BWWs, so it's easily sourced in the U.S., unlike the other CP3 kits whose pump is from Europe that are rebuilt. I picked up a band new one for $640.00 that has a lifetime warranty from FCP Euro (there was a promotion). If you get a CP3 from Europe, you'll have to send it to Europe if there is a warranty issue. With the Bosch BMW CP3, that's not the case. It's a North American pump.

Here's the URL: https://fishermotorworks.square.sit...true&sa=false&sbp=false&q=false&category_id=2

Fisher Motorworks also has a video on how to configure the pump and and install it. It doesn't cover a full install, but it should give you an idea of what to do.

Video URL:

I bought the kit for a CJAA and am going to install in the next week or two. Another benefit is the fuel line does not have to bent as much with the BMW CP3 given that the inlet is in close to the same position as on the CP4 pump, which is not the case with the CP3s from Europe.
i like that adaptor plate better than whitbreads. not sure how im just hearing about this kit, my cp3 looks way nicer though basically looks new, most the kits with painted pumps the paint chips and they just look "used" plus i feel it stands out. mine would never catch your attention looks like its factory. anyone know why the bmw cp3 does not have the grill looking thing on it or what that is even?
 

panchinho

Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Location
Tampa, FL.
TDI
2012 Jetta SportWagen TDI
If I am not mistaken, the "grill" thingy is for cooling the built-in auxiliary pump. The BMW pump does not have once, so the VW auxiliary pump is not deleted. The auxiliary pump is deleted when using the CP3 pump sourced from Europe that is offered with the other CP3 kits.

The one from Fisher appears easier to install. The pump is mounted to the adapter, and then the adapter is attached to the engine bracket by bolts that are inserted from the other side of the bracket, which does not require as much space, which is not the case with adapter that have studs to mount the pump, so it might not be necessary to remove the EGR.

Also, some other CP3 kits have the bolts that mount the adapter to the engine brakes that go in from the pump side and then have nuts fastened to them on the side where the timing belt is. If one of those nuts backs out, it will not be good. The FMW one has the the bolts go in from where the timing belt is and are threaded into the adapter itself. If a bolt backs out, the timing cover should prevent it from fully backing out and wreaking havoc. It's well thought out.

The only think I don't like about the FMW kit is that OEM hose clamps (N90686701) are not included. They are inexpensive, result in an OE look, and are better functionally.

For me, the best thing about this option is not having to source a pump from Europe and have to send it back in case of a warranty issue. Also, you can get that Bosch BMW CP3 brand new for quite a bit less than what a used rebuilt CP3 from Europe costs, not including the cost of shipping. FCP also has a lifetime warranty, so it was a no brainer for me.
 
Last edited:

Tdimrtwo

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2018
Location
North Texas
TDI
03 Jetta wagon, 15 GSW, 02 Beetle
I really want to do the CP3 conversion, but I’m not exactly sure where to start. Does Andrew (2micron?) offer a cp3 conversion kit? A google search shows several vendors that say they carry VW CP4 to CP3 kits (ID Parts, whitbread, darkside, etc.), are they all pretty much the same? Also, I don’t see anything saying which precise CP3 pump can be used. Are they all the same? I believe that one video suggested that there may be different sized shafts, different pressures and flow rates on different pumps. Is there a “white paper” that gives a good outline of the steps involved?
 

panchinho

Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Location
Tampa, FL.
TDI
2012 Jetta SportWagen TDI
I really want to do the CP3 conversion, but I’m not exactly sure where to start. Does Andrew (2micron?) offer a cp3 conversion kit? A google search shows several vendors that say they carry VW CP4 to CP3 kits (ID Parts, whitbread, darkside, etc.), are they all pretty much the same? Also, I don’t see anything saying which precise CP3 pump can be used. Are they all the same? I believe that one video suggested that there may be different sized shafts, different pressures and flow rates on different pumps. Is there a “white paper” that gives a good outline of the steps involved?
Hello. This thread is dedicated to that topic. All the information you will need is in it. I'd opt for a kit that uses a pump that is available in the U.S. Most, if not all, of the other kits require a CP3 pump that is available in Europe only, and most are rebuilt.

Also, some of the venders cited in this thread are no longer in business, so you'll have to research which of them is still in business.

Check out the post I made on Wednesday at 2:29 PM.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
I have a 2 micron filter with my CP3, but it was repurposed as a polishing filter in between the OEM filter and the CP3 HPFP. The inventor of the system, "2micron", explained that it was good to have the cleanest possible fuel going through the pump. I suspect it might not be needed with the more robust CP3 pump and I've thought about removing the extra filter, but so far it's still on my car and everything seems to be working just fine.
I don't even know what the change interval on that extra filter is. I should probably change mine next time I do the fuel filter as well.
 

calimustang

Veteran Member
Joined
May 17, 2010
Location
Central FL
TDI
2011 JSW DSG (buyback, RIP), 2014 JSW TDI, 2015 Passat TDI, 2013 Jetta TDI.
I don't even know what the change interval on that extra filter is. I should probably change mine next time I do the fuel filter as well.
from what I was told and seen on JUNKbook (Facebook if you will) they said intervals are 1 year or every 50k miles-ish?
 
Top