Changed TB, won't start

Ok so tonight I finally had time to change the TB so I got after it. The job wasn't too bad, used the DIY in the FAQ section and it helped a bunch. I put everything to TDC and locked it in place except the fuel pump but I was very careful to make sure it did not move. My fuel line pinchers kept popping off so I got a lot of air in the lines. I looked at the procedure and made sure the fuel filter was full and loosened each injector line on til it sprayed but still no luck. Is it possible that if the fuel pump timing is one notch off it won't fire at all? Or am I missing something completely? All my marks lined up with the new TB on, turned over by hand nothing hit anything, can't figure out why it won't start. Does anyone else know where I should look next or maybe is it still air in the lines?

If you're 100% sure the hole for the pump was lined up perfect then it should be ok and not out, more likely to have missed something puting it back together, very common. I would double check all the connections of everything you disturbed or unplugged.

Seatman said:

If you're 100% sure the hole for the pump was lined up perfect then it should be ok and not out, more likely to have missed something puting it back together, very common. I would double check all the connections of everything you disturbed or unplugged.

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I can't say I am 100% sure, I am fairly certain it never moved when I had the cam and crank locked down. Say it moved one notch would it still fire? After the new TB was installed TDC lined up perfectly. There really isn't much you unplug but I will triple check again.

I think if it moved a tooth it could well put it way out of range because if it's already slightly out one way or the other and then was moved that extra tooth I would've thought that could put it to far out to fire.

I'm pretty sure the pump cannot stay in the correct position without being pinned. You'll find that when pinned correctly there is significant pre-load on the drive pulley. If you didn't pin it and simply slipped the belt over chances are good that your injection timing is way out.

Mako said:

I'm pretty sure the pump cannot stay in the correct position without being pinned. You'll find that when pinned correctly there is significant pre-load on the drive pulley. If you didn't pin it and simply slipped the belt over chances are good that your injection timing is way out.

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Took the words right out of my keyboard...

After you manually turned the engine over twice, with the camshaft locked and crank at TDC, did you at least use an inspection mirror to check whether the hole for the pump pin was properly lined up? (And are you sure you're looking in the right place? It should be in line with the raised projection on the pump that's just behind the fuel inlet...)

Yuri

Mako said:

I'm pretty sure the pump cannot stay in the correct position without being pinned. You'll find that when pinned correctly there is significant pre-load on the drive pulley. If you didn't pin it and simply slipped the belt over chances are good that your injection timing is way out.

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Exactly.
And why wouldn't you lock the IP? Even if you didn't have the locking pin, lots of other things work just fine for that. Seems like asking for trouble since the IP wants to move.
And make sure you get the correct locking hole, not the "sucker" hole, as mentioned. That's one of the most common errors.

ymz said:

Took the words right out of my keyboard...

After you manually turned the engine over twice, with the camshaft locked and crank at TDC, did you at least use an inspection mirror to check whether the hole for the pump pin was properly lined up? (And are you sure you're looking in the right place? It should be in line with the raised projection on the pump that's just behind the fuel inlet...)

Yuri

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Yes I checked that but the way you guys make it seem it must've moved. Do I have to release the tension to put it back in timing or you think I can adjust it with just loosening the bolts and turning slightly?

jettawreck said:

Exactly.
And why wouldn't you lock the IP? Even if you didn't have the locking pin, lots of other things work just fine for that. Seems like asking for trouble since the IP wants to move.
And make sure you get the correct locking hole, not the "sucker" hole, as mentioned. That's one of the most common errors.

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I don't know it was stupid. Notice how it says "newbie" under my name. I am very mechanically inclined BUT this is my first time ever working on a diesel that isn't a truck.

Bakeme521 said:

Yes I checked that but the way you guys make it seem it must've moved. Do I have to release the tension to put it back in timing or you think I can adjust it with just loosening the bolts and turning slightly?

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I'm sure you should go back thru the steps like in the original install. Release the tensioner, loosen cam sprocket, crank at TDC, lock the cam and IP (with bolts loose and center slots) this time and retension TB. Tighten up the can sprocket pulley bolt and hand rotate to check interference for good measure.

paramedick said:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=819788

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Wow, thank you so much. I don't know how I didn't find that last night when I was searching. Thanks again.

Bakeme521 said:

I don't know it was stupid. Notice how it says "newbie" under my name. I am very mechanically inclined BUT this is my first time ever working on a diesel that isn't a truck.

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Yes, I understand. But the TB change is such an important step that it's imperative to follow all the steps, as you found out. At least the IP out of time cann't cause any damage, like having the cam/crank out of time.
My first solo TB didn't exactly go w/o a hitch either.

jettawreck said:

I'm sure you should go back thru the steps like in the original install. Release the tensioner, loosen cam sprocket, crank at TDC, lock the cam and IP (with bolts loose and center slots) this time and retension TB. Tighten up the can sprocket pulley bolt and hand rotate to check interference for good measure.

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Yeah I am going to follow that thread posted to the t, I'll report back later. Hopefully it will be back running.

Bakeme521 said:

Wow, thank you so much. I don't know how I didn't find that last night when I was searching. Thanks again.

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The thread paramedic linked is written by a top guru. Very good! Follow those steps and you will be up and running.

I also could not get my ALH to start after changing the timing belt today. I actually got it to start once and it ran, but would not start again.
I finally moved the injection pump sprocket a very small amount and it started perfectly.
It takes very little change from perfect position to make it unable to start.

I ended up moving the sprocket just until the new bolts covered the wear marks from the previous bolts.

another note-
It's not necessary to disconnect the fuel filter supply / return lines, in order to do a timing belt job- they can remain connected. Even if the lines are disconnected and it's thought that air got into the system, so long as the injector hard lines were not opened, the engine will typically start and run for several seconds if everything else is correct.

It was the timing on the injection pump, it was way off like you guys said. Still working on a few other things and we will see if it will start.

And it's alive! Thank you guys for all your help. It also seems like that clicking noise I thought was the fuel pump is the upper roller for the timing belt. The bearing is in bad shape and is kind of lose. And also the bolt that holds it on is secured to the IP so if it were making the noise putting a screwdriver on the IP and listening you would hear the bearing metal noise also. I have a new one on order and still need to work on the AC. Will report back with progress, thanks again guys.

Bakeme521 said:

And it's alive! Thank you guys for all your help. It also seems like that clicking noise I thought was the fuel pump is the upper roller for the timing belt. The bearing is in bad shape and is kind of lose. And also the bolt that holds it on is secured to the IP so if it were making the noise putting a screwdriver on the IP and listening you would hear the bearing metal noise also. I have a new one on order and still need to work on the AC. Will report back with progress, thanks again guys.

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Glad to see its running!
Now you can see why its always recommended to replace everything in the system path when its TB replacement time. Belt, all idler rollers, WP, bolts, etc.

jettawreck said:

Glad to see its running!
Now you can see why its always recommended to replace everything in the system path when its TB replacement time. Belt, all idler rollers, WP, bolts, etc.

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Yeah you are right about that. I actually thought the rollers came with the kit from ecs but I was wrong. They are getting changed now though for sure. I'll check back again on the weekend, hopefully I will have more good news.