Major TDi Electrical Issues!!!!!! Please HELP!

OK, about a week and a half ago my 99 Beetle was starting to have hard starts. By the end of last week my battery was dead! Came home charged it fully, and the B ran fine for 2 days, then it wouldn't start again!! Got a new Battery on Mon., Yest. when I was leaving work car would not start and I had to get a jump! So I think I've narrowed it down, it's not the battery and it's not the alt., or I be on the side of the highway!
Something is killing my battery while I'm in work! There are no lights on or anything idiotic like that!! I'm seriously in need of some help!!! Has anyone experienced this?!?!?
Any help would be much appreciated!!!!!!!!
Thanks, J

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Life is too short, drive a TDI for a long time!?!?
'67 13 Window Deluxe
'99 Beetle TDI GLS

A voltmeter should show some low readings when parked, I would think.

Your car is under warranty? Take it to the dealer and let them sort it out.

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D.O.C.I. Doctor of Compression Ignition

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No more elctrical warranty, 34,500 miles!
Sorry I didn't mention that!

Maybe there is a loose or corroded connection to the generator. Maybe the ground strap from the battery too. This tsb is a little old but probably applicable: http://tech.vw.com/pdf/27-97-03.pdf

Karl,
Thanks a lot for trying to help, I checked all connections and cables, being that the car only has 35K everything still "looks new". I'm going to try that tsb application you provided, but I don't think that'll be it!!
Anyone else got ideas, suggestions, etc....

Thanks, Freds ROX!
J

J, are u certain that the alternator is OK? Most cars will run for days, even weeks, without a working alternator. The simplest check is with a voltmeter. When the engine is OFF, you should measure about +12 to +12.7 VDC. at the battery. When the engine is running, you should see about +13 to +14 or a bit higher VDC at the battery. That would indicate that the alternator is working and recharging the battery. If you measure more than +15 VDC. at the battery with the engine on, then you have likely got a voltage regulator problem.
Hope this helps.

Thanks for the tip cw!
I'm taking my DMM home from work today and I'm going to check some readings, I have the bentley and its got the correct reading listed!!

Thanks, I'll keep y'all updated on this deal, sucky deal!

J

Batteries can devolop internal shorts between cells and drain themselves dry even without any external power draw.

-mickey

Mick
I've went through 2 batteries in a week, unless the new one was junk, I don't think this can be the case!

Thanks for the insight though!

HELP!

either way, the battery is discharging when motor is off, or it's not charging.

test voltage across battery posts with motor running. Should be 14.8 +/- volts. If it's low, it's not charging. Then check voltage directly off the alternator with motor running. (Careful not to electrocute self) Just probe from big red "hot" terminal to ground with voltmeter. Should be 15 volts or so.

If that didn't work, check the field wires for power (the other smaller wires running into the alternator). If you have power to the field, but not coming out at the 'hot' post, the alternator is bad.

Assuming that the red ign light (battery charging) light is working normally and goes out when the engine fires, have a look for the obvious first. Something could be left on without you knowing. Favorites are interior (dome) and trunk lights- be prepared to climb into the trunk and slowly close the lid, (have somone handy to let you out!) and the glove box lights, (don't try climbing in here) These leaks are only small but can be significant. As the others say look for around 12v with ign off and just less than 15v with the engine running across the battery terminals.

It's rare for an battery to fail in under 5 years.

Good luck!

[This message has been edited by Brodie (edited August 03, 2000).]

Locate the code number for the radio. be prepared to unlock it after this test.
Remove one of the battery cables from its terminal. Use the AMPERE setting of the borrowed multi meter. Connect one lead of the meter to the battery post and the other to the removed cable. Any current flow will show up this way. It is the current flow which will eventually cause the loss of voltage potential. A voltage check alone is not a valid indication of an electrical load.

If you don,t have an ampmeter use a 12 volt test light between one of the cables and bat. then pull fuses one at a time till the light goes out. This should show whats on when the car is off.. Don,t forget to turn the door lights off since one of the doors will open to get to the fuses. also there may be fuses under the hood. glow plugs come to mind

If you don,t have an ampmeter use a 12 volt test light between one of the cables and bat. then pull fuses one at a time till the light goes out. This should show whats on when the car is off.. Don,t forget to turn the door lights off since one of the doors will open to get to the fuses. also there may be fuses under the hood. glow plugs come to mind.

Jonathan,

I agree, the voltmeter across the battery is just a crude "is it or isn't it" charging test. I thought the ohms test would only be valid if you knew exactly what was left on with the ignition switched off. These could be the clock, the alternator and maybe some other systems on a tdi. Do you know if this is right? Also do you know if using this test can affect the airbag?

[This message has been edited by Brodie (edited August 03, 2000).]

all,
I haven't tried any of this yet, I got a call yest. at work from my friend asking me to go to the Pearl Jam show at the beach with her! Didn't have anytime! I am printing this now and I'm prob. going to try it on Mon. b/c I'm going to a resort on the bay this weekend!! Not in my car!!!!!!!!

Thanks everyone, I will record all of my readings and post my results!

J

I meant amps not ohms!

Be carefull of that current test. Make sure your meter can handle it. There are normally two different connections on the meter for low current applications, re: ma's and for 10 amp testing. Note that on most meters the small setting is fused, the 10 amp connection is not. This system will draw 32 amps just for the glowplugs when activated, it's enough to melt your meter into a molten mass if it is unable to handle that kind of juice. A better alternative is an inductive pickup for checking draw during operation. So long as you do not turn the ignition on you will be ok.(If the glowplugs are not on all the time) A battery at rest in the car that reads 12.2 volts dc will be considered fully discharged. Normally anything over 14.7 volts during vehicle operation is considered overcharge, but I have seen some high voltages with the TDI. Also an overcharge will be occompanied by a bubbling battery, there will be evidence of fluid loss. The TSB's list something with the Radio that if improperly coded can drain the battery, check them out. Good Luck.

OK Guys, here are my findings:

Motor running, across battery posts=12.29 VDC

Motor NOT running ac. posts= 9-10 VDC

Didn't have time to pull out the ramps and get to that Alt. to test, but it looks like that is what's bad, huh????


Is it the Alt.??

How hard would it be to replace by myself????


Any advice would be GREEEEAAAAATTT!!
Tony T.

In the interim you can charge your battery every night with an automatic battery charger. Charging voltage is approximately 14 volts +/- a few tenths of a volt.

Sounds like the voltage regulator or alternator. In newer cars the voltage regulator is an integral part of the alternator. I don't know for our TDI alternator.

Yes, the voltage regulator is part of the alternator, and cannot be relaced separately. I know this, because for a time, I thought that my "high" system voltage was due to a faulty regulator. I was looking into replacing my alternator, but it turns out that the OEM batteries are crap instead.

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Ric Woodruff

One Damn Good Biermeister

1998 Jetta TDI Sport

Can somebody help him out with a spec from the Bentley manual? I don't have mine with me at work. (I really should keep it here!) 12.29 volts AT IDLE might be acceptable.

J: What is the voltage when you rev the engine up to 2000 rpms?

Your "motor off" battery voltage is definitely low. Take the car to one of those big chain auto parts stores, like Pep Boys or someplace, and see if they can wheel their battery tester out to the car and put a load test on the battery. They should also be able to test your charging system. I don't know for sure, but I suspect your battery is faulty. If you're getting over 12 volts at idle I see no reason why the battery should be discharged. I think it's shorted out and is draining itself overnight.

-mickey

p.s. Yes, I know that you have a new battery. Trust me: New ones can be shorted out, too. It happens more often than you think.

[This message has been edited by mickey (edited August 08, 2000).]

I was looking in my Bentley and it seems that the regulator can be removed from the alt from the rear............


Anyways, what are y'all suggestions??
I really don't need to be paying some dealer 2-300 bux for an alt. fix!!!!

Can I do it myself??
Should I replace the Regulator if I can??

Should I get ripped off at the dealer?!?!!?


Howard Z, yes, that is what I have been doing, and when I get to work I pop the hood and take off the B+ terminal an the Battery!!

P.I.T.A.!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks All!!!!!!!!!!

If the volage regulator is a replaceable part, then by all means, go for it. You will have to get one from a source, but a part like that might be generic enough to be available from a good aftermarket source rather than a dealer's high price.

Follow all the precautions and all that. Good luck!

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Always interested in steep & deep.
Ski resorts closed! Break out the cameras and fly rod ...

9-10v with engine off is way too low. The battery is flat or kaput. You should be seeing around 13v. A healthy, but flat battery should imediately persuade the alternator to charge at its highest rate, so you should be seeing 14.6 or close volts. So 12.29v with the engine running is very low. I think the battery and current leaks can be eliminated, it must be a charging problem.

Ealy alternators (70s) had separate voltage regulators but as others have said these days it's intergral. It is possible to buy limited parts for alternators but in practice it would be best to have a specialist auto-electrician check the alternator charge rate (this should only cost a few dollars) and if it's faulty replace it with a quality aftermarket unit. Check all the earth connections first though.

Unlike the old dynamos, alternators can charge at tick over and I believe their maximum is achieved at not much above tick over. Don't ask me why this should be!

And WHY does an alternator puke at 35,000 miles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have 270,000 miles on my Camry Alternator!!! This better not be indicative of things to come.
Claude

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TDIsmokin
Claude

I am an elitist. I drive a TDI!!

Here ye here ye,

I went by Autozone today and the guy there says it's the alternator. I checked vwparts.com and a Volt. reg. is $73 and a alt. is $480!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think I'll take it to an Elec tech and get them to test the alt. to see if it's that or the reg.(it is removable), other than that, I don't know?!?!!? $480 sure does suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!

J: take the alternator to a shop that rebuilds them in house. You could save a lot of money that way.