Subframe alignment

Had my car in for a wheel alignment and found out that my sub-frame is out of alignment. Les Schwab does not do that full body alignment so I may have to go to the dealer. In that car has 200k miles and we drive it do Mexico not surprised.

Question: If I where to use one of the Sub-frame kits like this:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-034moto...3B7bbfvO6Zh4jVMT33lUi6BvTCKxzD_ff0aApEi8P8HAQ
would it move the sub-frame back in alignment or would I still have to go to the dealer to have it adjusted?

Those aren't alignment pins. These are: https://vw.snapon.com/SpecialToolsDetail.aspx?itemId=33890008

You'll want to replace the bolts as well. Has the car been wrecked or hit a curb or something really hard? Usually the subframes do not shift. What's the whole story?

Buy Tyrolsport deadset kit.
And all new bolts.
It's very typical for the subframes to shift on these cars.

Whatever you do, you will need a qualified alignment shop (which may or may not include your local dealer) to adjust the alignment.

New bolts are specified in the service manual. not a bad idea.

Just so I understand:

If I purchase a kit with bolts either Tyrolsport deadset kit or the one I linked to; I would still need to get the sub-frame aligned at a shop that would do this?

Currently took it to a tire shop (Les Schwab) and they do not adjust the sub-frame as part of their alignment. The thought the dealer could do it or maybe body shop.

Car has not been in an accident. Car has 200k miles on it and had the DMF replaced (not sure if they dropped the sub-frame to get auto tranny out). We also drive it to Mexico every winter and on cobble stone roads that beat the sh*t out of the car. From what I have read this stretches the bolts and can cause play in the sub-frame.

I was hoping that the above kits would force the sub-frame into alignment so that I would not have to take it to the dealer.

N.CaTDI said:

Just so I understand:

If I purchase a kit with bolts either Tyrolsport deadset kit or the one I linked to; I would still need to get the sub-frame aligned at a shop that would do this?

Currently took it to a tire shop (Les Schwab) and they do not adjust the sub-frame as part of their alignment. The thought the dealer could do it or maybe body shop.

Car has not been in an accident. Car has 200k miles on it and had the DMF replaced (not sure if they dropped the sub-frame to get auto tranny out). We also drive it to Mexico every winter and on cobble stone roads that beat the sh*t out of the car. From what I have read this stretches the bolts and can cause play in the sub-frame.

I was hoping that the above kits would force the sub-frame into alignment so that I would not have to take it to the dealer.

Click to expand...

the Tyrolsport deadset kit fixes the subframe alignment. Have you even researched the kit?

xjay1337 said:

the Tyrolsport deadset kit fixes the subframe alignment. Have you even researched the kit?

Click to expand...

Seems like there are about 4-5 kits on the market. It appears the big difference is what materiel the washers/centering collars are made of; Bronze Alloy; Stainless; or Aluminum but they all do the same thing.

Except that sometimes the subframe NEEDS to be shifted to get the car BACK IN alignment. So something that essentially neuters this feature may not be what you need or want.

Have a proper alignment done, shifting the subframe to fine tune the camber and caster to equalize it is not that big of a deal. I do these all the time.

N.CaTDI said:

Seems like there are about 4-5 kits on the market. It appears the big difference is what materiel the washers/centering collars are made of; Bronze Alloy; Stainless; or Aluminum but they all do the same thing.

Click to expand...

I have the Tyrolsport kit. Buy that one imo.
Once the deadset kit is installed the subframe will be perfectly centered and then you can have your alignment done.
You cant "shift" the subframe once deadset kit is installed. Thats sortof the point of it!

Correct. But if the car has been wrecked or hit a pothole hard enough to tweak the unibody, then the subframe will need to be shifted to get the suspension back in alignment. THAT is sort of the point of it.

So yeah, if the car is 100% perfect, no problem. You can make it like some others (Toyota, GM, Hyundai) that have pegs that do not allow for any adjustment. When those cars get knocked out of whack, you're screwed. You cannot get them straight without a frame pull rack at a body shop. At least with Volkswagens, they designed in at least a little adjustment if the car gets knocked out.

I am only saying this because I align lots of these cars, and have had to REMOVE these subframe kits that the kids buy to get them back straight because the car wasn't straight when they installed them in the first place. Had they had the alignment verified BEFOREHAND, they'd know that.

This is like installing fixed length tie rods. Yeah, in a perfect world....

The OP is talking about a 200k mile car that has obviously seen some rough roads. It probably is no longer as perfect as it left the factory. What I am not quite understanding here is why the shop that does alignments cannot adjust the subframe? This is a common procedure. Not only is it clearly in VAG's own literature, the alignment machines themselves even show this. Heck, ours even has a full color picture library as well as in some cases (including this) a VIDEO showing how to do it! It is not that big of a deal, unless they DID try it and it is knocked so far out they still cannot get it set. In which case, the centering kit will obviously only make matters worse.

Sounds to me like the OP just needs to get his car to a competent shop that is familiar with these cars. Because I rarely find the A5 to not be able to be brought back into alignment in the normal way, unless something is bent, and that is usually a strut, carrier, or control arm.

oilhammer said:

Except that sometimes the subframe NEEDS to be shifted to get the car BACK IN alignment. So something that essentially neuters this feature may not be what you need or want.

Have a proper alignment done, shifting the subframe to fine tune the camber and caster to equalize it is not that big of a deal. I do these all the time.

Click to expand...

That makes very good sense. Trying to find a shop that does a full alignment with movement of the sub-frame appears to be the problem. I am currently in Reno Nv and have contacted 5 shops with no luck.

I would think if I go this route I would still replace the bolts in that it appears the frame has moved which implies the bolts have stretched over time.

oilhammer said:

Correct. But if the car has been wrecked or hit a pothole hard enough to tweak the unibody, then the subframe will need to be shifted to get the suspension back in alignment. THAT is sort of the point of it.

So yeah, if the car is 100% perfect, no problem. You can make it like some others (Toyota, GM, Hyundai) that have pegs that do not allow for any adjustment. When those cars get knocked out of whack, you're screwed. You cannot get them straight without a frame pull rack at a body shop. At least with Volkswagens, they designed in at least a little adjustment if the car gets knocked out.

I am only saying this because I align lots of these cars, and have had to REMOVE these subframe kits that the kids buy to get them back straight because the car wasn't straight when they installed them in the first place. Had they had the alignment verified BEFOREHAND, they'd know that.

Click to expand...

Unless the car has been crashed and something has been bent, or bushes are worn, the subframe being directly centred, as designed, gives a better experience.

20k or 200k doesn't make a different, parts don't bend unless there is an impact.

xjay1337 said:

20k or 200k doesn't make a different, parts don't bend unless there is an impact.

Click to expand...

Well, 180k more miles means a lot more chances to smack into something.

Remember, we don't live on a tiny island over here... we drive a LOT.

We have had the car since 30k only accident was a lady who backed into the driver door when it was parked at around 50k No frame damage from that just a little dent in the door. It has hit pot holes and topes (mexico speed bumps) to fast over the last years so I guess frame damage could have happen. I looked under the car and do not see any bent items or areas that give me concern.

I am selling a Tyrolsport deadset kit never used on the buy/sell forum. If you need one.

silicondt said:

I am selling a Tyrolsport deadset kit never used on the buy/sell forum. If you need one.

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Can I asked why you did not use it? I regards to my problem I found a shop that adjust sub-frames; They set things up and called me[ said while sub-frame is out a small amount they felt it was not needed. Explained the wear on the tires I was trying to fix was not related to that but another adjustment. My understanding was if car drives straight no need to adjust sub-frame. So we never touched the sub-frame lol. Cars drives great now and I will watch the tire wear.

I bought it like a week before I got the letter about the buyback program on the TDI. Since I was going to sell the car back to Volkswagen I didn't even bother to install it no purpose.

It would be interesting to see the alignment report. Can you post a photo of it?