NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

dzcad90

Rolex & gin
Joined
Mar 15, 1999
Location
Joliet, IL USA
TDI
Jetta - 97 (RIP), '03 (Sold), '09
This splitting hairs over whether or not receipts are valid is absolutley sickening. RECIPTS ARE VALID PROOF THAT YOU PURCHASED DIESEL. It's enough. It is, really. Nothing else you can do will carry any more weight in court, save for getting a fuel sample and having it analyzed at $200/sample EVERY TIME and saving those records, with your receipt of course.

You can go down may tangents about "what ifs" and such, but it's all the same. Receipts are enough. They are. Period. As stated before, unless you are getting fuel samples analyzed every tank, the mere fact that you have a receipt that states you purchased diesel fuel is more than most are going to bring to any type of litigation / arbitration hearing and that WILL WORK IN YOUR FAVOR.

Jeez Louise. I just don't get it. If you truly believe that this car is that much of a hassle to own, put a for sale sign in it and remove what sounds like a huge element of stress from your life.
 

40X40

Experienced
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Location
Kansas City area, MO
TDI
2013 Passat SEL Premium
This splitting hairs over whether or not receipts are valid is absolutley sickening. RECIPTS ARE VALID PROOF THAT YOU PURCHASED DIESEL. It's enough. It is, really. Nothing else you can do will carry any more weight in court, save for getting a fuel sample and having it analyzed at $200/sample EVERY TIME and saving those records, with your receipt of course.

You can go down may tangents about "what ifs" and such, but it's all the same. Receipts are enough. They are. Period. As stated before, unless you are getting fuel samples analyzed every tank, the mere fact that you have a receipt that states you purchased diesel fuel is more than most are going to bring to any type of litigation / arbitration hearing and that WILL WORK IN YOUR FAVOR.

Jeez Louise. I just don't get it. If you truly believe that this car is that much of a hassle to own, put a for sale sign in it and remove what sounds like a huge element of stress from your life.


You've got an AMEN for that.

Bill
 

keywestbob

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Location
Plainfield, IL
TDI
'11 Golf TDi, bye-bye loyal Jetta Wagon, '04
You've got an AMEN for that.

Bill
Amen brother!

Only 66 more posts until this thread breaks the 1000 mark :rolleyes:

I bought a '04 new and heard about the DMF grenading (it didn't), the cam, lifters, bearing getting trashed (they didn't in 195,300 miles), the windows falling in (they didn't) and countless other "defects" which could possibly kill me. Maybe because I used the proper oil and eventually Mobil TDT (thank you TDiclub) and didn't try and squeak it to the max I didn't have any failures. Other than the wrong flywheel sold to me by a club member & vendor.

We just sold the Wagon and in a way I miss it. However it was replaced with a new MkVI Golf w/a 6MT which will supposedly grenade the DMF, the HPFP will self destruct, the Inter Cooler will turn into a block of ice and countless other issues will surface.

My response. Yeah right.

I buy the best fuel I can from one place, the local Farm Service Co-Op which pumps many, many thousands of gallons a week retail and even more to the farmers over a multi county area, blends in 5-11% Soy in the summer months and uses Diesel Ex Gold full time and passes the ASTM tests w/ease. You want to create a real problem, screw up the farmers with crap fuel.

My receipts all say "Diesel" as well as my monthly statement which I pay the bill from so I think I inadvertently have the paperwork trail covered without having to resort to video cameras and such. I will do everything in my power (as I did with the Jetta) to take proper care of my car, I will not push the fluid changes or not do maintenance when called for or in some cases before its called for.

Does that mean I will not have any problems? I hope the Golf will be as trouble free as the Jetta was but I will cover my bases. Being in the Quality field for > 30 years I understand the numbers game, a .11% failure on these cars is a drop in the bucket vs qty produced, yes, until it happens to one of us and a even lower number would be much much better. Feel free to call me a clueless boob but in all my years I have NEVER misfueled my cars or motorcycles and have no plans to start now. And before you ask I'm the only one who fuels it.

I'll let you know how it works out.

Bob
 
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740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
We just sold the Wagon and in a way I miss it. However it was replaced with a new MkVI Golf w/a 6MT which will supposedly grenade the DMF, the HPFP will self destruct, the Inter Cooler will turn into a block of ice and countless other issues will surface.

My response. Yeah right.

Nahh, you forgot to mention your Exhaust flaper valve will fail at least twice before 190K, and you'll need to look for solution to a filled up DPF anywhere after 120K. Oh and your door's wiring harness as well as washer fluid lines will need some tending too. Ohh and good luck with the door lock modules binding up on you too.

Changing your oil on a regular baisis can't excape you from those issue.
 

rogerd

Active member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Location
Portland, Oregon
TDI
2010 JSW, 6 spd, white
So, has anyone estabished a build date or part number or other identifying feature of the final improved HPFP? If I'm looking at a used 2009 I assume it would have the older (un-improved) version unless it was later replaced, right? Are all 2011s "OK"?
 

timwagon

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2010
Location
Hauppauge, NY
TDI
2010 Jetta Sportwagen Stick
So, has anyone estabished a build date or part number or other identifying feature of the final improved HPFP? If I'm looking at a used 2009 I assume it would have the older (un-improved) version unless it was later replaced, right? Are all 2011s "OK"?
No one knows what HPFP design changes were made, or whether those changes have been effective in addressing the HPFP failure issue.

Also, no one knows the cause of the HPFP failures, although there are many theories.
 

ZiggyTheHamster

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Location
Richmond, CA
TDI
2009 VW Jetta TDI
So, has anyone estabished a build date or part number or other identifying feature of the final improved HPFP? If I'm looking at a used 2009 I assume it would have the older (un-improved) version unless it was later replaced, right? Are all 2011s "OK"?
No.

The NHTSA report says VW made changes in May 2008, September 2009 and November 2010. I am collecting data, but so far I cannot determine if the dates are pump production dates or vehicle production dates. Pumps take anywhere from 40 to 70 days on average to be installed in a vehicle once the pumps are manufactured.

If the dates in the report represent pump production dates, a revision 3 pump might be installed in a car made as early as mid-January 2011, but there's no way to prove it yet. Some of the newest pumps have colored dots on them, which is to indicate something, and possibly to indicate the pump is a revision 3 pump. Again, I don't have enough data to figure this out yet.

On the other hand, plenty of us with "revision 1" pumps or even original revision pumps are operating their 2009s without issue. If you're considering not getting a 2009 because of this problem, you're probably best off getting a 05.5-06 and taking care of it.
 

ssamalin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Location
Southern CA
TDI
2015 Mercedes E250 Blutec. Previously: 2006 Jetta TDI
Maybe there's a dealer somewhere who can tell the new pumps somehow. Too bad there's no well connected dealer who's club friendly. Maybe some members can hang out with a big shot somehow.
 

JSWTDI09

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
So, has anyone estabished a build date or part number or other identifying feature of the final improved HPFP? If I'm looking at a used 2009 I assume it would have the older (un-improved) version unless it was later replaced, right? Are all 2011s "OK"?

Early indications are that they are better. Are they OK? That is a matter of definition. Fewer 2010s have failed than 2009s, but the 2011s are too new to really know just how OK they are. Only time will tell.

Have Fun!

Don
 

ZiggyTheHamster

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Location
Richmond, CA
TDI
2009 VW Jetta TDI
Maybe there's a dealer somewhere who can tell the new pumps somehow.
How about we let them tell the difference between the Castrol SLX Professional OE ("black bottles") and the Castrol SLX Professional LL03 ("gold bottles") first? :)

They see those more often.
 

scdevon

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Location
USA
TDI
None
. Fewer 2010s have failed than 2009s, but the 2011s are too new to really know just how OK they are. Only time will tell.

Don
Late model pumps don't seem to be failing at all. Some late model pumps are way past the mileage where early pumps were failing.
 

LRTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2002
Location
Red Sox Nation
TDI
RIP 16 GSW... Just the LR diesel now
Late model pumps don't seem to be failing at all. Some late model pumps are way past the mileage where early pumps were failing.
Its all a bit reminiscent of the time we went over to unleaded gas. That required hardened valves and valve seats.

Before then it was failure after failure.
 

ddorrer

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
WVa
TDI
2015 GSW Tdi, 2012 JSW Tdi DSG (Sold w/80k miles), 2010 Sportwagen TDI 6spd (Traded)
NHTSA Contact

I got another email from the NHTSA today. It was a short survey about refueling. Why? When? Did I ever misfuel. blah blah blah.

I cant be responsible for the quality of diesel at retailers nor can I test the fuel at the POS. VAG needs to make a engine that will work with US graded diesel.
 

IFRCFI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Location
Winchester, VA
TDI
2013 Touareg TDI Lux
Late model pumps don't seem to be failing at all. Some late model pumps are way past the mileage where early pumps were failing.
Careful. There are a few 2009 owners on here who take exception to their cars being labeled "early". I took an earful for suggesting that 2009 be avoided on the used car market.....
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I talked to the service manager at Keffer VW in Charlotte. They have had no HPFP failures on the 09-11 TDI engines.
 

ssamalin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Location
Southern CA
TDI
2015 Mercedes E250 Blutec. Previously: 2006 Jetta TDI
How about we let them tell the difference between the Castrol SLX Professional OE ("black bottles") and the Castrol SLX Professional LL03 ("gold bottles") first? :)
They see those more often.
What are you complaining about? At least you got oil. On my 06, a dealer left a gasket off and my oil light came on 100 miles later. Of course, they accused me of driving without oil and wouldn't pay the tow. You lucky dog! :)
 
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Stealth TDI

Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 13, 1998
Location
Newport News, VA
TDI
2017 GTI APR Stage 3 (395 hp/376 lb-ft)
Hello,

A big wad of diesel receipts doesn't prove that you never put gas in it.
I hate to feed the paranoia. But I recently spotted yet another really rare chance for fuel contamination not at the fault of the car owner. The "Race Track" fuel station down the road started carrying diesel fuel. Funny thing is I recall seeing construction there about a year ago. I believe they installed new USTs. Fast forward to today with "brand new" diesel and I have to wonder if a dedicated diesel tank sat empty for a year or if they converted a gasoline tank to store diesel. If the latter, did they completely empty the tank? Did they completely clean it out before filling it with diesel? One thing's certain: I won't even take my old TDI there for a LONG time, if ever (I like my current station, anyway). How long would YOU wait before visiting that pump?

Just curious...
 

jdsande3

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2003 GLS 5-Speed and 2011 JSW
I talked to the service manager at Keffer VW in Charlotte. They have had no HPFP failures on the 09-11 TDI engines.
Keffer is where I bought my 2011 JSW; I just wanted to say be careful, as I got a few different answers when I asked. I ended up demanding to talk to the service manager before I bought the car (this past Feb) and he admitted to 5 HPFP replacements, but of course he said they were due to misfueling. I am not saying he was not being honest, but he did tell me you could smell the gas when they removed the filter.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I don't really trust any of the dealers in Charlotte. They have all screwed me on my 2000 beetle for one thing or another. I bout my JSW at Caarolina VW because they were the only dealer in Charlotte that had any on the lot last March.

last week, I found a large screw in my right left tire. It's one of the hankook optimos that came on the car and is exclusive to VW. Called all three dealers and Keffer was the only one that had them in stock. Go up Friday and have them put the new tire on. Picked my daughter up and headed home. She disappeared with the car until Sunday afternoon. I run to the store and coming out I noticed that the replacement tire was a bridgestone. So went back up to keffer on monday to get the correct tire put on. I know it's my fault and I should have checked before driving off, but how dumb is to not look at whats on the car and listen to the owner about matching the tires. If I had 30 or 40K on the car, I would have replaced all tires but at 16K, one tire will do.
 

jdsande3

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2003 GLS 5-Speed and 2011 JSW
but how dumb is to not look at whats on the car and listen to the owner about matching the tires. If I had 30 or 40K on the car, I would have replaced all tires but at 16K, one tire will do.
This is why I am debating about letting them even do the 10,000 mile service. I do not have too much experience with their service department, but I did have a very good experience with the salesperson (though I know he was trying to sell me a car). Good to meet another JSW owner in Charlotte, and I plan on ordering VCDS (especially since I have a 2003 ALH) if you ever need to borrow it.

Ok, now I will stop taking this thread off topic.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I had Carolina VW do my 10K service. Seemed to go ok. I won't go back to VW South for service though. They left my beetle sitting for over a week because they "didn't know it was there". Even though the service manager told the wrecker driver where to park it and then filled out the repair requests for me. I may try Keffer for the 20K since they're more convienent. I'll just make sure to ask for all the replaced parts, like the fuel filter.

I'll take you up on your vcds offer.
 

cprtrails

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Location
Philadelphia, PA
TDI
None yet
Service

If you are confident in performing the fuel filter change yourself and know how to properly prime the system to ensure it starts up easily and quickly then I would strongly suggest you do it yourself. I work in the service business for the heavy duty truck industry and can assure you that although there are good techs out there, there are more bad than good. Even the good techs however are not going to pay attention to detail and have the same concern as you will as an owner. I see enough everyday to remind me of why I'd do my filter change myself. Even worse is the fact that the techs I deal with only work on diesel engines and should know better but still do things sub par quite often. A VW dealership likely has TDI specialists, but I can assure you they are not always available to perform basic services, leaving you with a rookie tech likely more familiar with a typical gasoline engine oil change.

It may seem like I'm putting down techs and generalizing, but I can speak from experience. I also turned wrenches before moving into management roles so I know first hand. I considered myself an above average tech but like other good techs I cut corners from time to time for various reasons whether it was lack of time, bad mood, or any number of other variables. Bottom line, if you do it yourself you know what's being completed and how it was completed. Even if you screw up, at least you'll know that you screwed up and not the dealer. Finally, if you do not know how to change the filter then in that case you're better off taking your chances at a dealer.
 

oilbug

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Location
Paris
TDI
2010 A3 TDI - US Spec
I was in for some service today at one of the better dealerships (Audi) here in Paris and asked the service manager if they'd seen HPFP problems over here. He was fully aware of the problems in the US but said they hadn't been seeing the problem over here. Kind of lends support to the theory that the fuel lubricity is at the root of the problem. Since they've got a much larger diesel fleet over here, I'd have expected the issue to be quite visible if they did have problems. Unfortunately, I neglected to ask him if they'd seen catastrophic problems after a known mis-fueling.
 

oldpoopie

Vendor
Joined
May 14, 2001
Location
Portland Oregon
TDI
2001 golf gl, 2006 jetta, 1981 ALH swapped rabbit pickup, 1998 beetle
Hello,



I hate to feed the paranoia. But I recently spotted yet another really rare chance for fuel contamination not at the fault of the car owner. The "Race Track" fuel station down the road started carrying diesel fuel. Funny thing is I recall seeing construction there about a year ago. I believe they installed new USTs. Fast forward to today with "brand new" diesel and I have to wonder if a dedicated diesel tank sat empty for a year or if they converted a gasoline tank to store diesel. If the latter, did they completely empty the tank? Did they completely clean it out before filling it with diesel? One thing's certain: I won't even take my old TDI there for a LONG time, if ever (I like my current station, anyway). How long would YOU wait before visiting that pump?

Just curious...
Awh, just buy a small amount of diesel from there and pour it in a styrofoam cup.... :rolleyes:
 

dweisel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
Nhtsa phone call

Just got off the phone with the NHTSA. They called to do a follow up on the report my wife had submitted. The investigator was very knowledgeable about the hpfp problem and someone had actually sent him a hpfp to examine. He stated that they are doing a serious investagation on the hpfp problem. He also stated that he will be sending out emails to everyone that had submitted a report to get more info,such as paperwork from dealers.

Sounded to me like they are on top of this whole problem. He also stated he was aware of the tdiclub forum.

dweisel
 

Harvieux

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Aug 15, 1998
Location
Whittier,CA-USA
TDI
06 A5 Pkg.2 w/navi & ASEP
Just got off the phone with the NHTSA. They called to do a follow up on the report my wife had submitted. The investigator was very knowledgeable about the hpfp problem and someone had actually sent him a hpfp to examine. He stated that they are doing a serious investagation on the hpfp problem. He also stated that he will be sending out emails to everyone that had submitted a report to get more info,such as paperwork from dealers.
Sounded to me like they are on top of this whole problem. He also stated he was aware of the tdiclub forum.
dweisel
That's encouraging news. Interestingly enough, I just got off the phone with attorney, Stuart Talley of the law firm, Kershaw, Cutter & Ratinoff out of Sacramento,CA. This firm was instrumental in the case against BMW. Stuart asked me to find a CA resident who experienced a failure so that person can be a representative class action client.
Stuart also asked if I would consider being a consultant to the firm in this matter.
I do happen to know a couple CA resident victims who did have out of pocket expenses over this failure but, I want to get the word out in case other CA resident tdiclub member victims want the opportunity to be the representative class action client. Stuart says it would be a good financial kicker for this representative. Please contact me via PM, email at: wrmltd@pacbell.net or call me at: (562) 946-9000 and I will provide you with a direct phone number to Stuart.
For the record, I did not make the initial contact to this law firm. I was called by them.
Stuart told me they have received many inquiries regarding this HPFP issue. I really want to get this thing resolved ASAP because I truly need to start offering 09-11 CR TDIs in inventory. Later!
 

GTIDan

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Location
So. California
TDI
2010 Candy White Jetta, DSG
Lets remember that attorneys......all attorneys have only 'one' obligation.......to represent the party that hired them. It does not mean they are right in what they represent.

As in they represent killers..........that does not mean the party is innocent. Just saying......might want to keep that in mind when watching this play out.
 

Plus 3 Golfer

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Location
ARIZONA
TDI
Und tschüss! 2009 Jetta 12/23/2012
Great news from dweisel (NHTSA appears to be on top of it) and Harvieux (potential class action suit). It looks like VW is looking down the "double barrel of a fully loaded shotgun".:D

Remember VW's "Sludge Letter" of August 2004. Well in addition to a recall to replace the early versions of the HPFP, reimbursement for owner's OPC due to previous HPFP failures, and likely warranty disclaimer if tank was misfuelled with gas, VW see my suggestion below for an August 2011 "HPFP Letter". It took you 6 years to get it right on the "sludge issue". Hopefully, the time will be cut in half on the HPFP issue. Come on VW (we know you read these forums), step up to the plate.

Is this really any different than the the sludge issue, IMHO, NO - inadequate design: oil sump capacity / HPFP bore, roller, cam; inadequate fluid: coking of early spec. engine oil with too little sump capacity / grenading of HPFP bore, roller, cam on US lubricity spec. diesel fuel.

Afier listening to you, our valued customers, Volkswagen is implementing an extended warranty for HPFP related repairs for 2009 - 20XX model year Volkswagen Jettas equipped with the 2.0 L Common Rail diesel engines to 8 years from the vehicle's original in service date without a mileage limitation. This extended warranty is fully transferable to any subsequent owner. This extended warranty does not affect - and is in addition to - any other applicable warranty covering your vehicle.
 
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