TDI in an airplane?

Back in June of '99, Mickey suggested putting a TDI in an airplane. Has anybody done it yet? What does a TDI 1.9L weigh?

there are better diesel engines developed in Germany and France for light aircraft use than the VW TDI.

I'm sure you've seen the posts about how the turbo in a TDI (is it only the VNT in the A4, or does the same problem exist with the wastegated turbo in the A3 and B4?) having a tendency to self-destruct at high altitudes (i.e. more than about 3000 feet above sea level). Not the sort of thing you want in a plane.

Guys,
In Germany they have the Centurion (Thielert) 4 cyl 135HP diesel engine, it's a converted Mercedes car diesel, 4stroke 4cylinders; kinda heavy. Clean/Installed weight is 135/180Kg. Power to weight ratio is rather low and in test aircraft it performs marginal in the climb performance department.

In France they have the SMA 305 diesel, 4 cyl, air oil cooled engine of around 230 hp weighing 192 kg, this should be a winner, i think.

Personally I'm building a Pelican PL, this a/c should get a Wilksch WAM-120 120HP / 100Kg, 3cylinder 2 stroke engine and will perform like any other Pelican PL with 120Hp (still in final building fase,no test data) and with another friend i'm working on a RV7A which should get Wilksch WAM-160 engine, basically the same as the WAM-120 only with 4 cylinders.

The Centurion and SMA engines are electronically controlled and the Wilksch has a mechanical fuel controller.

These engines are designed or modified to run on JET fuel.

see for more info on websites:
http://www.centurion-engines.com/
http://www.smaengines.com/
http://www.wilksch.com

As far as I know Lycoming and Continental should have a running diesel engine aswell; but I'm not sure how far they are in development.

Take care

John

Keep in mind that turbo issues have more to do with sudden acceleration when outfitted with chips that do not control boost spikes properly or simply introduce too much fuel at to low of an rpm.

Running a VNT at high altitudes under steady load is not an issue and frankly a VNT would be OK for this application.

Thanks for the links to the engine sites, I want to start my RV project this year (money permitting) and it will be getting one of the true blooded aero diesels, just not sure which one yet. The Renault is leading the pack in terms of my favorite SNECMA makes a hell of a fan section on the CFM-56 jet engine which I have several thousand hours flying without so much as a hick-up. Ive taken out lots of big birds and the fans have always stood up to the impacts (Got to love titanium ).

The VW TDI is simply too heavy for this application since weight in a car is not the consideration that it is in an aircraft.

My plane right now has a 1600hp motor that only weighs about 400lbs but then again its a turbine. Factor in a TDI weighing in at 300lbs putting out only 130hp at best and the ratios just are not there.

DB

[ January 05, 2003, 08:39: Message edited by: Drivbiwire ]

Speaking of aircraft diesel engines, here's an auction for promotional literature for the Packard diesel aircraft engine dating back to 1930.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26437&item=1876546758

Might want to know that in the mid to late 1930's the German Luftwaffe air force did considerable research into diesel aircraft engines for their simplicity, fuel economy and much better resistance to catching fire compared to aviation gasoline. They built several sea planes with multi engines that were diesel powered. If memory serves, they were reliable, leaked oil, but lacked operational power and were too slow to accelarate for most pilots. While promising, the 9/1939 European start of WW II prevented the methodical Germans from further development of these interesting engines.

Both the Junkers Ju86D and Ju86P saw active service (the 86P was used to bomb London) whilst fitted with diesel engines.

The D had two 600hp Junkers Jumo 205C six opposed-piston cylinder diesels. Later variants had more powerful radial engines (not diesel).

The P had two 1,000hp Jumo 207A-1 or 207B-3/V turbocharged opposed-piston diesels.

Don't forget the experimental bomber the Nazis developed which used a large diesel in the fuselage to drive a supercharger for the gasoline propulsion engines for super high altitude capabilities.

As a side note, Diesels are being considered to be the savior of general aviation here in the states, partly because of REDUCED EMISSIONS of all things!

the Soviets attempted their version of the Dolittle raid on Germany using diesel bombers for the long range. I don't think any of the bombers even made it to target.

Saw a neat little twin diesel turbo-prop Italian plane in something like Pop Mrchanics - tried a quick google search - no luck, but here are some interesting diesel piston aviation motors:
http://www.aerokurier.rotor.com/AKHEFT/Akh0012/Aeh0012e.htm#MAGAZINE

The Zoche sounds cool, great power for its size, weight. I believe they have 4- and 8-cylinder radials. But it appears to be indefinitely "almost certified."