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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old December 5th, 2017, 16:05   #16
IndigoBlueWagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jswol View Post
His estimate is approx $5k with reman head from vw. It is the only vw reman available.
Not sure what this means. Keep in mind you can buy a new head for under $1,000. If the bottom end is OK (and often it is) then you could have a new head and timing belt system purchased and installed for around $2K.

Is it worth it? That's up to the condition of the rest of the car and how you feel about it. I put a new factory long block in my '02 Wagon with 295K on it, but it was in good condition, I'd just had all the rust repaired under warranty, and I'm very, very fond of the car. Maybe not the best economic decision but it's what I wanted.
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Old December 5th, 2017, 16:37   #17
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The car is in good shape otherwise. I was getting 49 MPG on that thing and I enjoy the heck out of it. I have a truck and trailer so getting it places is not a cost item besides gas. I am going to pull the head to see whats a doin. Fortunately when it happened it was at very low speed between stop lights. Not sure if that matters much.
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Old December 5th, 2017, 16:39   #18
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I take reman head as remanufactured head from the VW dealer. Not sure what more that would mean.
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Old December 5th, 2017, 17:12   #19
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If you can pop the head then you'll be able to get to the assessment point cheaply. Given that you say you were driving slowly then that would tend to hold more promise of this being relegated to only the top end: send head to Franko6, get head back, install (along with new TB), drive on in to the sunset (for probably under $2k).
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Old December 5th, 2017, 19:18   #20
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At this age of vehicle it's not worth the rebuild unless you can do it yourself and save the labor costs. If this is not feasible, you would be better off using that money to get a good used one and sell the car to someone else or part it out. There are plenty of these cars out there still.
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Old December 5th, 2017, 20:53   #21
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What Jokila said.

If you can do the work yourself then pull the head, inspect everything (check piston protrusion to make sure you don't have bent rods and inspect the bores for condition -- no point in putting a fixed cylinder head on a trashed engine) and if you're good there then buy a timing belt kit and send the head off to Frank06.

You're into the car at that point for about $1500; if you find the main seal leaking (probably) then pull the pan and do the oil pump chain and tensioner at the same time since you have to take the front sprocket off and at that point dropping the pan is pretty-much all that's left. Inspect the oil pump but odds are good it's ok with just the chain and tensioner being worn. That's still right near $2k in parts.

But, this assumes you're doing the work. It's a couple of days worth of work and assumes you have or can borrow the special tools for the timing belt job.

If not then IMHO I'd part it out, get the $1k or so you can out of it and call it a day. There's no way I'd put $5,000 into the vehicle; you can buy a running one with a recent timing belt job, documented, for that money. Hell, for $5k you could probably talk my kid out of hers and it has a brand new belt in it that I put in about 6-7,000 miles back -- and 100,000 fewer miles... oh, and it's a wagon too.

There's no economic argument AT ALL for putting that sort of cash into the vehicle. For $2k, in short, I'd probably fix it. For $5? I'd sell it for $1k and buy another one if you still like the vehicle itself.

Last edited by Genesis; December 5th, 2017 at 20:56.
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Old December 6th, 2017, 11:15   #22
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Shoot if you were closer to California I would take you up on the wagon. It comes down to money. I have more time than money and have somewhat decent mechanical skills and aptitude. Ill keep you guys posted in what I find. I appreciate all of your input and expertise. And now learning the hard way, PM on your timing belt everyone!!!
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Old December 6th, 2017, 11:37   #23
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If you have the time (and a place to work) then the decision is easy; drain the cooling system, remove the timing belt components you can get to without yanking the engine mount (they gotta come off anyway; let the belt hang over the mount) and pull the head.

If the damage is confined to the head and your inspection of the piston protrusion and bore condition is that the block and pistons are ok (and even perhaps if you have a bent rod) then it's an expensive mess but not a disaster. Send the head to Frank06, buy a belt kit and fix it. Around $1500 for the belt kit and head work, plus 2-3 days in your garage, and you should be back on the road. Just do look at the rest of the internals you can easily get to first so you don't spend the $1500 and find the engine wasn't worth the investment; basically, the question is "do you think you'll get another 100k miles out of it once it's back together?" If yes, then proceed. If not then part out the car.

That's how I'd look at it.
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Old December 6th, 2017, 17:15   #24
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If the motor does not crank I would just cut the belt and yank the head.
If the motor turns I would manually crank it from the crankshaft center bolt to get the cam lobes on #1 both up and the injection pump to the lock hole for #1 cylinder.
Lock the injection pump with the tool or if you don't have it a 5mm drill bit (shank into the pump).
At least the pump would be in the right spot.
If the engines repairable then you could take the rest of the right side off as needed.
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Old December 6th, 2017, 18:11   #25
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With a shredded belt I wouldn't even bother trying to roll it over with the crank bolt or otherwise. Just pull the head. Once the head's off you can trivially put the crank at TDC, and putting the pump at the pin hole is easy too off the IP center bolt (just don't turn it CCW!)

With 300k+ miles I'm looking at the bores before I do anything else, and I'm also going to check the crank front main seal for leakage; if there is any then the pan comes off and I'm inspecting the oil pump chain and tensioner, and will probably change those (plus inspecting the oil pump) while the front sprocket is off to change the front oil seal. If there's obvious bore damage or the honing is uneven then it gets more serious as if you've got egg-shaped bores you gotta consider whether it's worth what really OUGHT to be done (bore oversize, etc.)

I'm not tossing $2kish worth of parts in an engine plus a couple of full days of work unless I'm reasonably comfortable that I will get another 100k miles out of it. But that's me -- $2 large is a chunk of cash, and it's REAL easy for the $2 large to be completely wasted if the engine lunches itself 20k miles later.
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Old December 6th, 2017, 18:25   #26
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Agreed I would not throw big money in the car until I know how bad it is.
Keep in mind for later, the cam and pump turn once for every two turns of the crank.
The cam only locks at one point.
The pump lock hole could lock at #1 cyl or #3 cyl injection.
I'm sure someone here will correct me if I'm wrong on this.
There's a few 'how to' posts with all the steps in order.
Remember to check how high the pistons stick out of the block, all should be even.
Save the head gasket, you need the number of 'holes' in it for the correct thickness.
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Old December 6th, 2017, 18:31   #27
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Doesn't matter.

Think about it a bit. The piston moves upward twice for each power stroke (once to clear the cylinder of combustion gases, once to compress the air charge.) So yes, the IP turns at half the rate of the crank. But, doesn't matter with the head off and cam out. #1 at TDC is #1 at TDC, and with the flywheel mark aligned that's correct.

With the pin in the pump, that's also correct. And when you put the head on, the lobes are both up on #1, and the lock plate goes in, that's also correct. There's your three points, all aligned.

With the belt shredded rolling the crank won't help you as the other two won't move in relationship with the crank.
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Old December 9th, 2017, 20:10   #28
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Any body know how to get ahold of Frank06?
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Old December 9th, 2017, 20:10   #29
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What high mileage timing belt kit is being recommended?
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Old December 10th, 2017, 06:46   #30
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I like IDParts....
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