tomo366
TDI Lifer, Member #68
Do believe everything the dealer tells you.....
Went to the dealer this weekend...
- Thread starter Papachristou
- Start date
smoav8r
Veteran Member
Auffenberg. Last week they had a DSG and a manual. This week only the manual was left.
Texas Realtor
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2011
- Location
- DFW, Texas
- TDI
- 2012 Passat TDI 6MT, 2006 Jeep Rubicon 6MT & 2002 F250 7.3 Diesel 4x4
I believe a meaning of deal is different to different people. To me invoice price is good enough. I don't mind if the dealerships makes some money. I want great no hassle service and I want my car now
Not 3-4-5 months later. If I have to pay $500 extra for that I am fine.
I don't buy car to brag I got the best deal and no one got a better deal than me.
I enjoyed buying my car, it was an experience I will remember for a long time.
It went something like this.......I woke up one morning decided I was not going to wait around for my local dealer to order me a car get it in 4 months. I want my car in my garage in two days. Did some searching on cars.com, made few phone calls and next day evening flew out to Denver. Spent a nice night in Denver downtown. Bought my car the next day had a beautiful drive back listening to some nice tunes.
Not 3-4-5 months later. If I have to pay $500 extra for that I am fine. I don't buy car to brag I got the best deal and no one got a better deal than me.
I enjoyed buying my car, it was an experience I will remember for a long time.
It went something like this.......I woke up one morning decided I was not going to wait around for my local dealer to order me a car get it in 4 months. I want my car in my garage in two days. Did some searching on cars.com, made few phone calls and next day evening flew out to Denver. Spent a nice night in Denver downtown. Bought my car the next day had a beautiful drive back listening to some nice tunes.
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tdiatlast
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2009
- Location
- Fort Worth, Texas
- TDI
- 2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
TR: Sounds to me like you were lucky...AND...can afford a "next day" airplane ticket, AND can afford a downtown Denver hotel.
Supply just can't keep up with demand right now. VW sales, at every level, is most likely in panic mode, as the demand is unprecedented, IMHO.
In all fairness to VWoA (here I go again...defending them) there was NO WAY they could have prepared for this...not in their wildest dreams.
I believe/hope some of the delay is because production mgmt is digging in their heels and insisting on QC. I hope, I hope, I hope...
Supply just can't keep up with demand right now. VW sales, at every level, is most likely in panic mode, as the demand is unprecedented, IMHO.
In all fairness to VWoA (here I go again...defending them) there was NO WAY they could have prepared for this...not in their wildest dreams.
I believe/hope some of the delay is because production mgmt is digging in their heels and insisting on QC. I hope, I hope, I hope...
You've got to be kidding, right? VW has done this for how long? 83 and 84 quantum TD's, 96 and 97 passat tdi's, 2004 and 2005 passat tdis, and now what, 2012 and 2013 passat tdi's, again, all here in North America? SSDD. I will be surprised if VW makes a passat tdi in 2014 for the US market.
VW knows exactly what they are doing.
abctdi
Top Post Dawg
Whatever happened to the OP?
aja8888
Top Post Dawg
Maybe he bought a Honda?
tdiatlast
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2009
- Location
- Fort Worth, Texas
- TDI
- 2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
"SSDD"?
Except for the Westmoreland affair, remind me where the other VW production plants are in the USA...go ahead...I'm waiting...??? I thought so.
Motor Trend "COTY" doesn't come along evey year, does it?
The demand for this car has been unprecedented. With fuel costs rising, the demand is even greater
EVERYTHING in the production end is new: the facility, supply infrastructure, machinery, personnel, paint, distribution methods, etc. etc.
The ONLY thing that has remained the same is the frequently incompetent sales structure.
"SSDD"? Hardly...
Demand is irrelevant. VW only gets to produce or import what they do, they get a quota on how many cars can be diesel, how many gas, how many carbon credits, so production is fixed by how much they pollute by the US govt. CARB and the EPA don't like diesels unless made by American car companies in the form of trucks, then they grant you exemption on production levels. Just the way it is. I will be surprised if 15,000 passat Tdi's get made in the USA for US market sales, for 2012 model. Maybe 1500 of those will be 6 speed manuals in the USA. Just guessing and speculating.
I've seen tons of gassers in passat format, sitting on dealers lots, sure don't see them driving on the freeways yet. If VW could make and sell more diesels, don't you think they'd fill the demand with production? Of course they would, but they want to prop the price of the diesel model up $5000 + over a gas model, so they make the diesels scarce to get.
Based on the level of participation here in the B7 section versus any jetta CR section, seems pretty clear to me, lots of talkers, not a ton of new experienced tdi buyers posting here. Go to the A5 and A6 section and look at all the posters, 48k or more sold in 2009, over 50k for 2010. The passat is a much smaller market segment, smaller runs, 2 year run cycle spans.
I brought a Cars.com ad in hand, asked the dealership how close they could come to that price. I didn't get the floor mat and trunk kit worth $300, plus I paid a bit more than in the ad. That was good enough for me, there was more room to haggle. They cameback at me with one price, no haggle, and I accepted. Really didn't grind on them at all, just provided a comparative to negotiate from, that was it. Phone calls are simple these days with the internet access. It's a no brainer.
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tdiatlast
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2009
- Location
- Fort Worth, Texas
- TDI
- 2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
So, Niner, this is a US plot/conspiracy to limit VW TDI production? VW is deliberately keeping production slow in order to comply with US govt. restrictions? They spent gazillions of dollars for...what? To push their gassers?
Wow. I'd like to learn more. What you say makes no sense at all.
Wow. I'd like to learn more. What you say makes no sense at all.
No?
http://evmeme.com/2010/04/epa-institutes-cap-and-trade-for-the-auto-industry/
electric steering gives you lower points for carbon than belt driven power steering. Since you have to have and meet averages, your dirtiest cars gets the least amount of production before you max out on your average per car. it's all a balancing act to make the govt happy.
TomB
Veteran Member
That site is questionable. Trying to pull up the actual document leads to a broken link.
They talk about Cap and Trade which NEVER passed through Congress, so not sure what they were talking about in 2010 10 10 10. We are in 2012 now.
tdiatlast
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2009
- Location
- Fort Worth, Texas
- TDI
- 2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
I find this all very intriguing, and think it deserves its own thread, to bring in several here that know more about marketing, diesel fuel production, etc.
Niner, do you have some insider information as to how these gov't regulations will directly impact VWoA's marketing strategy re: production of Passat TDIs? Based on the one page I read, I'd need to see exactly how VW is using these CAFE "trades"...otherwise, I'd be speculating.
Papachristou
Veteran Member
well, we never got a reasonable offer on our audi so we just listed it for sale on autotrader and audizine this weekend. as soon as we get it sold, we will have the cash to get a tdi. just hoping i can find a manual trans pretty quickly because i just have a company car. she may be bumming rides to work for a week!
I am also fine with paying invoice. dealers need to make money and like you said, i am ok with that but their service isnt that good. seems like few people have good service these days. ive had an absolute disaster experience with my triumph dealer here in memphis. it has been in four times for an oil leak without so much as an apology.
I am also fine with paying invoice. dealers need to make money and like you said, i am ok with that but their service isnt that good. seems like few people have good service these days. ive had an absolute disaster experience with my triumph dealer here in memphis. it has been in four times for an oil leak without so much as an apology.
Papachristou
Veteran Member
why the snide comment? i never mentioned a honda.Maybe he bought a Honda?
aja8888
Top Post Dawg
No disrespect meant. A lot of folks here go buy Honda's when they get frustrated over a potential TDI purchase. I was just speculating due to your silence. Hope you find what you want.
Papachristou
Veteran Member
thanks, as do i. My stepmom has an 06 or 07 honda accord 4 cyl manual... she gets about 23mpg average. pathetic. i have zero desire for a honda. ive been forunate enough to be around german cars my entire life although many of them have been older, they quality, reliability, efficiency and quirks all keep me wanting more of them
tdi90hp
Veteran Member
You may find that selling your car for the money you want is not as easy as you think. You laugh at dealers but never forget that he is carving a cheque on the SPOT for your car....You sound like a nice guy but I would not want to deal with you on the Sales floor. "you are OK with invoice"...that one is doubtfull.....dealers have one or 2 cars with TDI and you are OK with invoice.....soooo does the dealer sell all his 2.5s at 1000 below invoice? Welcome to the club but my suggestion....let the dealer make a resonable profit and you get a reasonable deal and life goes on. I ran dealerships for years and people that came in guns a blazing always went away either happy if handled right or more educated as to what is realistic in terms of a deal. cheers and good luck with your sale of your car and keep us updated....cant wait to hear the end of this. Never forget to put yourself in their shoes. The retail car biz is NO fun anymore.....Old ladies at the nursing home are grinders now....
Nonsense... the dealer I worked with on internet sales, I gave him a http: of a competitor, told him I didn't expect him to match the price, not with his without floor mats, trunk blocks and whatever else, but could he get close to to the competitors price if I came in and did the deal today. I know he made an additional $500 off of me with the number he came back with He came back with a good number, and I accepted it and that I'd be down there that day to pick it up. Sure it was 150 miles away, but he kept his word, so did I. Done deal. The internet has changed the way one can buy a car.
Gone are the days of dealers sitting back and getting fat commissions if a buyer is willing to apply themselves and do a fair amount of leg work. It's a global economy, and with big ticket items, where the savings are substantial, it pays to comparative shop on the internet. It also doesn't hurt to be up front about your expectations. If you finance, they may not make the money on the front end sales price, but they more than make up for it on the back end with interest rates and the BS game of what kind of monthly payments can you afford.
tdi90hp
Veteran Member
OK Niner. Sorry I forgot that you are the expert in Retail and my 23 yrs in the trenches working at dealerships is complete "nonsense".....my deepest apologies. I can count on my 2 hands how many times in my carreer people drove 150 miles to buy a car. Dealerships sell LOCALLY. Make your best deal with home town dealer. have a sit down with GSM. do some research and I will be willing that he/she will work with you. Global economy BS.....
tdiatlast
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2009
- Location
- Fort Worth, Texas
- TDI
- 2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
For my 09 sedan, my dealer matched the on-line deal offered from a well-known salesperson here. (There was only a verbal discussion, and no agreement to buy). The online salesperson was NOT happy about it, and offered to go even lower. I was annoyed because he had previously told me he couldn't go any lower. Yes, it got a ugly.
I will always try very hard to buy local...everything I can. I am buying from my neighbors, these are the same folks who vote for my local officials, and who pay taxes for the local economy. Plus, I want them to stay in business. For that reason, I will gladly pay more, unless it's completely unreasonable...and of course, there are sales managers that are completely immovable.
Just my 2-cents...
I will always try very hard to buy local...everything I can. I am buying from my neighbors, these are the same folks who vote for my local officials, and who pay taxes for the local economy. Plus, I want them to stay in business. For that reason, I will gladly pay more, unless it's completely unreasonable...and of course, there are sales managers that are completely immovable.
Just my 2-cents...
sudseh
Veteran Member
Will you have my babies?
edsiajb
Veteran Member
I drove 170 miles and saved about $700 more than the best deal offered in my state. My nearest dealer's best offer on an SE was $300 above sticker!
I did the same thing two years ago with my wife's Honda Pilot....except that we drove about 140 miles and saved about $1200 more than our best "local" offer.
On my Dodge Cummins truck, I bought a plane ticket and flew to Dallas....
I did the same thing two years ago with my wife's Honda Pilot....except that we drove about 140 miles and saved about $1200 more than our best "local" offer.
On my Dodge Cummins truck, I bought a plane ticket and flew to Dallas....
tdi90hp
Veteran Member
?????
tdi90hp
Veteran Member
listen people will go out of their way to save 500 bucks but it does not happen much. exception rather than rule. your local dealer is still your best person but if he is not reasonable then heck...travel. In my market we have 4 VW dealers within 30 minutes so I dont see this as an option and my clients were rarely from more than 30 minutes away. A cummins truck is a bit of a different animal as there could be a number of factory incentives and hold backs and PMA's (Past model year allowances ) and performance money for exceeding targets from Dodge to the dealer so one might see quite a fluctuation. What did I say? get educated....find out the real numbers as much as possible an negotiate....Flying to go get a car seems extreme though. VW dealers just dont have enough margin or holdback to justify a plane ticket. IMHO of course
When my local dealer told me he couldn't order me what I wanted, and several folks here did order and got what they wanted, I got fed up, and knew I was not being told the truth. At that point, I lost all faith in negotiations, and walked away, despite being told the day before by the owner that he could order me what ever combo I wanted. YMMV, but when someone willfully misrepresents to me that they can't order me a new car, I'm done with them, they don't deserve my business. I have no tolerance for willful misrepresentation in my dealings with any car dealership. BS me and I catch you at it, and it's over, you lost me and my money. It was at that point a look at my smart phone and a phone call was made to a dealership that had something in a color in stock was made, an offer was sent my way, and I accepted it and confirmed it via an email. New car dealerships are still used car dealers too, and the reputation of used car dealers is lower than a snakes belly in terms of honesty and integrity.
Here you go... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2005/12/05/least-ethical-honest-prof_n_11723.html
http://www.gallup.com/poll/124625/honesty-ethics-poll-finds-congress-image-tarnished.aspx
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tdi90hp
Veteran Member
everyone has their own experience. I will tell you this. I never met a Sales manager that would turn down a "reasonable" deal. When I bought my Golf it was very simple. I walked in the GSM and asked to see his invoice. I paid exactly 700 dollars over invoice which I thought was reasonable and after a bit of bickering and whining about lousy margins he sold me the car. I insisted on NO admin fee and paid the freight and PDI like everyone else.
+taxes to the tune of 13% in the communist country of ontario. So next time you think it's bad where you are....we have a Dollar that is Worth more than the almighty greenback and we pay more dollars (6%import duty) and WAY more tax and then we get wacked with 100 dollars a/c tax as well. and it's taxable at 13%....so my point again....walk in...be reasonable....dont have a chip on your shoulder and make a fair deal. NO dealer can survive on "invoice" deals.....On the service side...set your expectations...meet with the service manager once and tell them what you expect....(the right oils, punctual service, attention to detail and reasonable estimates) and pay. I ask for no special favors in service or breaks on pricing. it's amazing what a reasonable person can accomplish in the dealership world.
tdi90hp
Veteran Member
geez thought it was related to original post....so sorry you dont like it...and you know if you dont like it there are many less tiresome threads...no?
Papachristou
Veteran Member
well, i had my car sold this weekend but the guy called back and said he was waiting till november... i said ***? because of the election? yep, sure enough, he is scared about what "might" happen when obama gets reelected. i hate mindless paranoid people. if obama gets reelected, the market will drop a little and recover, if he doesnt get reelected, the market will drop a little then recover. the world isnt going to end or change for that matter either way lol.
MyAvocation
Top Post Dawg
+1. I'm a politics junkie and see no connection to a car purchase and the 2012 election -- be it economy, markets, energy, etc. Not much change is expected unless the GOP wins a trifecta (WH, House & Senate)... I'd be surprised if this occurs -- and how I feel about it I'll save for the political forums.