Colt Cams Stage 2 Upgrade on PD Motor (before and after dyno)

OmegaRenegade

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Dec 15, 2005
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Brampton
TDI
2004 Jetta
So after much reading and the fact that my timing belt was due - I decided to upgrade my cam from stock to a Stage 2 Colt Cam.

Geoff at colt cam's advertises this regrind at +10-15hp and about 25-40tq which on our small displacement low hp engines is a pretty decent bump in power. It also would correct the factory flaw in the design of the PD Cam's. To me this was a win win situation when coupled with the fact that my timing belt was due.

Geoff is a very easy to work with, very knowledgeable guy who definatley aims to please his customers. To anyone contemplating doing this upgrade who has more questions then can find answers for on this forum, he welcomes you to call.

Here are the specs of my car prior to the cam:

PD130 ASZ motor
VNT17/22 boosting 26PSI
2.5" Passenger Performance turbo back exhaust
Eurojet Upgraded Side Mount Intercooler
2" Intercooler piping all the way through
PD150 Intake Manifold and Turbo Inlet Pipe
and
Engine Tuning by Mark Malone

The dyno we used indicates Whp not Bhp. I know nothing of the workings of how this dyno calculates horsepower or torque i figure if i used the same dyno both times it'd at least be consistent. Others in our area have used this dyno and numbers seem to be pretty consistent to what expected power output is suppose to be.



and the after dyno



The only things that changed from the before and after dyno where the Cam, cam bearings, lifters, timing belt, and oil. Everything else remained constant. The ambient temperature on the "after" dyno was about 12*C then the before but i really dont see that making much of a difference. This is just a drop in before and after comparison - i haven't let Mark begin to tweak the ECU for the new cam at all.

Things to note after doing this:
Car runs a heck of a lot quieter
Car appears to drives a lot smoother
The cam adds a bit of fuel by dropping it in
The before dyno EGT's hit 1500*F peak with NO smoke output
The after dyno EGT's hit 1650*F peak with a slight haze of smoke.

I'm slightly disappointed that i didnt break the 200whp mark but for the build of motor i have and the level of smoke output, I realize its a pretty decent feat. An upgraded cam with a mild turbo upgrade and no software modifications yielded about 10hp and 20tq. I figure with some fine tuning on Marks part, we should be able to squeeze another 5hp and some more torque.

When you factor in the price for all the replacement parts to install this cam it is by no means a "cheap" upgrade, however for a person with a questionable cam, it would be an ideal and nice upgrade to your motor. Total cost for this upgrade was ~$900 in parts and then you still have to add the cost of the timing belt.

After some fine tuning i'll jump on the rollers again to see what kind of improvement we've made. Will be a few weeks at least before that happens. Hopefully this time i'll have the battery charged in my camera for some video of the dyno runs too.
 
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shizzler

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Ann Arbor MI
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05 BEW Wagon
Awesome. That's a lot more area under the curve!

Over 30 lbf-ft gain at torque peak, sustained 10-15 HP bump throughout the rpm range. Fantastic improvement from a completely mild, streetable cam, imo. I am a little surprised your EGTs shot up so far though.

Thank you for sharing.
 

DBDieseler

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Location
Texas, USA
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2002 Jetta GLS
Nice numbers! I would like to hear more about the reasons for the EGT jump like that...maybe adding a different tune after the cam could bring it back down a bit?

Do you have the data files for these dyno runs? It would be cool to see the curves on the same plot. (Sorry, I analyze a lot of data at work and I am particular about graphs :eek: ) I, too, am interested in seeing some results from an ALH cam.
 

devonutopia

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PD300 Skoda Fabia
Very nice! I am sure my cam is helping me get quite a bit more power than I would have had on a stock cam. :)
 

Whitbread

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Nash_TDI said:
Pretty impressive. I really want one for my ALH and to see numbers of one.
Dyno is scheduled for 1pm tomorrow :). Going to do 3 runs, swap cam and lifters, and do 3 more. Car won't even be unstrapped.
 

Pcar993

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Southern CA
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Golf 2000 White
Thats really good!! How does your engine idle with this cam? How is driveability affected? Does it feel the same? Is the engine louder? Thanks!
 

TDIsyncro

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OmegaRenegade - I am glad to see your dyno numbers back the performance improvements I saw when we were developing the cam.:)
 

OmegaRenegade

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Location
Brampton
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2004 Jetta
Thanks for the kind words.

As for EGT's - i'm not sure why they climbed either but there definatley is more smoke then before so my only assumption is that the ramp on the injection lobe got altered too meaning longer fuel injection duration which gives more heat and higher egt's???? its just a guess.

The car idles fine - maybe even a little smoother then stock, revs dont bounce around nearly as much as the stock cam. Hovers around 903Rpm +/-5 to 10 rpm.

the thing that i like the most - theres this much power and almost NO smoke... slight hazing at WOT. Incredible tuning job by Mark Malone!

As for the dip in the graph, i think thats more due to the spike and boostvalve reacting to drop boost. Next time i'm on the rollers i'll do a run without the boost valve and then without the MAF and see what happens.
 

OmegaRenegade

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2004 Jetta
TDIsyncro said:
OmegaRenegade - I am glad to see your dyno numbers back the performance improvements I saw when we were developing the cam.:)
looks like the numbers are same/similar even with differences in turbo. Could one assume that you'd get the same gain with a stock setup?
 

TDIsyncro

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OmegaRenegade said:
looks like the numbers are same/similar even with differences in turbo. Could one assume that you'd get the same gain with a stock setup?
well, technically, it should move more air flow through the engine for any given boost level, so it should show good improvement on stock as well. I would not go as far as saying it would be the same numbers since the peak torque and HP numbers are based on a higher boost level than OEM. I would like to see OEM/cam swap dyno numbers to point too, but I think most will probably upgrade tunes/turbos first before cam, so I am not sure we will ever see that combo.
 

Nash_TDI

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Whitbread said:
Dyno is scheduled for 1pm tomorrow :). Going to do 3 runs, swap cam and lifters, and do 3 more. Car won't even be unstrapped.
Sweet. Hope to have one to put in my new head. Keep us informed.
 

Farfromovin

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03 Golf 2dr- PD150 6m
I'd like to point out that even before the cam upgrade you had a ton of torque. You don't see many PD's put that much torque down here in NA. I'm sure you can find another few ponies in the software so you can get that PD200 designation officially :)
 

Mark@MaloneTuning

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That's impressive considering that the average 190-210whp VNT-17/22 setup runs water/methanol to keep EGT down or it makes a lot of smoke (even at just 180-185whp with stock cam).

I'll e-mail you a file to get you to 200+ whp (220-230bhp) with very light WOT smoke still. However I think a GT1852v or larger turbo is calling your name. :) At 200whp it'll be challenging to keep your boost from creeping above 26 PSI. Some 1852v kits have stock-like spool if you're into that. A GT1856v may also be worth considering.

Way to go Bhupesh!!
 
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Bob_Fout

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Indiana
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2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
dieselpower04 said:
I've nevar seen so much trq from a 17/22!! Damnnnnnn!!
Jeff had/has a 17/22 on a rotary with 400 ft-lb / 200 HP.
 

3L3M3NT

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Glad to finally see some dyno #s to back up what Geoff has been stating is the hp/trq increase for the Stage II cam.

If I was to put in a Colt cam would lifters be the only additional items that need to be ordered as well?
 

Whitbread

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3L3M3NT said:
If I was to put in a Colt cam would lifters be the only additional items that need to be ordered as well?
Lifters and non stretch bolts. Someone posted the bolt dimensions up around here somehwere. Fastenal should be able to get them.
 

3L3M3NT

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Whitbread said:
Lifters and non stretch bolts. Someone posted the bolt dimensions up around here somehwere. Fastenal should be able to get them.
Thanks Matt. Kind of planning for the cam upgrade if that works out for your GTG.

For the non stretch bolts do they need to be a certain grade? 10.9 or 12.9???
 

TDikook

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'06 Golf Anthracite Blue
Im Baffled at the increase of EGTs. they SHOULD go down with an upgraded cam. Have you discussed this with Geoff at Colt Cams? I would be interested what he has to say about that.

Definitely good news though, wondering if I should keep my cam now and upgrade it.
 

Whitbread

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Farfromovin said:
I'd put in new cam bearings as well.
D'oh! Yeahhh, don't forget those.



3L3M3NT said:
Thanks Matt. Kind of planning for the cam upgrade if that works out for your GTG.

For the non stretch bolts do they need to be a certain grade? 10.9 or 12.9???
No problem at all. I would probably go with 12.9's. PM Franko6 and see what he's been using. The last 2 pd cams I've put in the customer supplied all the parts so I didn't have to source the bolts.
 

TDIsyncro

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Bolt Size and torque:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2814302&postcount=154


The upper cam bearing shell is often in very good condition. The lower cam bearing shell will most likely be in bad condition and definately needs replacement.

You may want to consider the oiling mods done by Frank06. I have done them and will pull my cam in the summer (about 50K) to see how well they are working.
 

TDIsyncro

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dieselpower04 said:
Man I wish it didn't cost so much just for 10 whp...grrr

Not a slight to the product or customer, just in general
Everything about the PD engine is expensive. Because of the way the cam, cam follower and injector set-up is designed by VW, the injector lobes have to be ground after the valve lobes are ground to regain clearance between the injector lobes and the cam followers. The pd cam also uses a taper on the lobe, and the exhaust and intake are each tapered a different direction. These three things require multiple set-ups for each cam grind. That is what drives the cost up. Just keep in mind that he does have PD cores now (good ones) for 250US each, which is a cheap solution if your PD cam is junked. He can also rescue a lot of PD cams on the way out if it is caught soon enough.
 

dieselpower04

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TDIsyncro said:
Everything about the PD engine is expensive. Because of the way the cam, cam follower and injector set-up is designed by VW, the injector lobes have to be ground after the valve lobes are ground to regain clearance between the injector lobes and the cam followers. The pd cam also uses a taper on the lobe, and the exhaust and intake are each tapered a different direction. These three things require multiple set-ups for each cam grind. That is what drives the cost up. Just keep in mind that he does have PD cores now (good ones) for 250US each, which is a cheap solution if your PD cam is junked. He can also rescue a lot of PD cams on the way out if it is caught soon enough.

Oh I know. I love the idea of getting rid of the factory problem. I know have 119k miles on my cam (60k of modding) and its starting to look a little weird on one of the lobes. I had Jeff and DanG look at it, same with Krout at the last GTG in Jacksonville. I will prob need one soon, might as well go for some more hp in the process!! :rolleyes:
 
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