Tdi bew question

Update: the car has good power with half throttle, it is the second half that makes a lot of racket but doesn’t speed it up. If I run car at 4K rpm for 2 or 3 miles the car picks power back up for a short time. Does that sound like a sticking turbo?




This past week I did a oil change on my father 2004 beetle bew dsg, driving it from his house to mine I could tell a huge difference in his and mine.

Mine is a 2005 bew dsg. Both beetles, both have same turbo s wheels. Both cars are just slightly over 200,000 miles, and new dsg transmissions.

His car feels so much quicker than mine. I have spoken about that on here before.

So here is where I am at, I cleaned my intake manifold, deleted intake manifold flaps,deleted my egr cooler, egr block off plates, deleted the cat (it had melted),checked turbo for play (feels very solid), cleaned turbo through egr port, replaced all vacuum lines, new fuel filter, new air filter, made sure turbo actuator move smoothly, and vacuum moves it easily, lastly I replaced my maf with a new bosch unit. Maf made the car run so much smoother. Car makes 17-18 pounds of boost. Boost comes on quick.

Still doesn’t feel as powerful as his car does. His car and my car both only show 1 update on tune in vagcom.

My car is very anemic till it reaches operating temp, I believe this is due to the asv closing to try and pull more egr through the engine. Once it is over 188 it runs better. Every time I crank it I get a p0401 egr insufficient flow, which I turn off which my scanguage 2.

Since my egr is blocked off is my car messing up my power with the asv trying to make it pull more egr? Is there a way to stop that without a tune or will the tune fix it?

By the way my car has a new cam, starts way easier than my fathers, just feels as if something is holding it back.

Thanks in advance

A tune would stop the light from coming on assuming you select the EGR delete option

When did you notice the power difference?

Have you checked static timing between cam and crank?

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SAAB's were notorious for power output variability. Especially the first gen 16V turbo 900's. Had one that would leave an SPG in the weeds...even though SPG's were selected for output. Have not had nearly enough TDI's in my paws to know just how variable they are( used to wrench on SAAB's ). Good luck one the quest for an answer.
cheers,
Douglas

Wildchild80, my father has had his bew for many years. I purchased mine a little over a year ago. I moved up from my alh. His car always felt way stronger, that’s what lead me on this quest to fix it. My car had a bad lobe on camshaft, so I put a billet cam and nitride lifters in. During that same time the cat had melted and intake was pretty clogged up. The egr was stuck open, so that’s why I blocked it all off. Each thing I did woke the car up but I am afraid I took a step backwards deleting the egr.

I did it to keep the egr cleaner, also sent ccv to atmosphere. My turbo and intake are spotless now.

As to static timing it is dead on. I have timing tools for nearly every vw engine out there. I have done quite a few timing belts, vw and others.

I always use locking tools, count teeth on belts, and count teeth on belts between sprockets and so on. I triple check everything. My car has a -.5 on the IQ. Fathers car is the same.

My car idles smooth, it just feels like something is either limiting fuel or air. Can get a little Smokey on full throttle, which also makes me wonder if asv is closing a bit limiting air.

I have heard if egr flow isn’t good, asv will close a bit to try and raise the flow. Just wanted to see f someone knows for sure. I know a lot of people on here are more into the alh.

EGR should only be open at idle or so I thought, boost will overcome the exhaust gas and cause a boost leak if it's stuck open and not blocked off on the exhaust side.

Can you manually tie the ASV open to rule that out?


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Two things come to mind when reading your post. I admit I am not familiar with BEW specifically, however, I understand these vehicles.

I assume his is stock and unmodified, while you've modified as stated above.

Two automatic transmissions, the variance between those could be the torque converter.

Your statement of modifications:
I cleaned my intake manifold(can't hurt)
deleted intake manifold flaps, (why, what are the cons?)(I would ask about pro's, however, we're looking for resolution to power difference)
deleted my egr cooler, egr block off plates, (you haven't tuned this out and the ECM is trying to use it, should compensate, maybe, if it can.)
deleted the cat (it had melted), (this affects the Dynamics of the turbo allowing it to spool faster, question is what temperature and density is the air being pushed through. Hot air is thin and the cooled volume is much less)
checked turbo for play (feels very solid), cleaned turbo through egr port, replaced all vacuum lines, new fuel filter, new air filter, made sure turbo actuator move smoothly, and vacuum moves it easily, lastly I replaced my maf with a new bosch unit. Maf made the car run so much smoother.(this is due to accurate information about incoming volume)
Car makes 17-18 pounds of boost. Boost comes on quick.

The next thoughts come to maintenance of the fuel systems. If he had his injectors, and, or fuel pump replaced more recently this could be a big factor.

There's a lot of variables that effect the way different vehicles operate. They need to be in balance and somehow your balance is out. This may be due to the modifications, timing is huge, and another is the IQ.

You could play around a little with Vag-com and see what you can do with the IQ adjustment. Look at setting the egr to minimize the effect of the egr not being there.

The question is broad and you're the only one who can truly answer them. We can only guess and give you ideas.

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Wild, I am not sure if asv could be manually tied off or not .

Eddie, these cars do not have torque converters, they are dsg.
I have a new lift pump in tank, I just put a new fuel filter on my car. I maintain both cars. As far as I know we are both still on stock injectors.

Intake flaps were deleted because they have been known to come loose. Some of the guys on here said there was no cons to removing flaps. Egr cooler is blocked off as well as back side of egr valve. There is no way it could leak.

I think I remember someone trying to modify the settings for EGR in vcds and it wouldn't let them on a BEW. Try and see, worse case is you in fact can't.

Have you ran any diesel purge or any cleaner through the fuel system?

Have you ran an auto scan yet? If not run one and make sure nothing weird pops up. I've got a fault that pops up but doesn't trip a CEL

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I can run auto scan in the tomorrow. I have scanned it quite a bit and never had much of anything show up. Every once in a while I was getting maf implausible signal p0101, pulled maf and it was filthy. So I put a new one on

That's an interesting Transmission design.
Looks like fluid can be a factor in them.
Right at the beginning of the video he speaks about the control of the flow of the fluid.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BMA56BAgLEEU&usg=AOvVaw1ZSEq-aTZUGWsdO9iejkKa

Power difference here seems like settings and modifications related, or possibly transmission related such as fluid. Weird things affect things weird.

I remember a write-up a while back, don't remember which vehicle or forum, about restacking the clutch plates so they grab quicker and more effectively. No idea what real relation that has other than his transmission being set up just differently enough that his clutches hold better transferring more power to the wheels.

For some reason I think I the restacking was for a conventional 2001 VW auto trans I used to have.


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My father is running a vw crate dsg. Mine was rebuilt with a new vw clutch, mechtronic unit and dmf. So there are only two clutch packs in the transmission and they are both vw parts.
My father is a member on here and he may chime in and explain the differences. He hasn’t driven my car in a while, but I have driven his recently. If he is in front I’m me and floors the gas, I can’t possi keep up with him. Even if I am on the throttle before him. If I am in front of him and floor it first, he has enough power to pass me. I have scanned both cars multiple times. We both have been over these two cars a endless amount of times. Most Saturdays we are working on a vw.

If anyone knows definitely if this is a issue of needing a tuner or not that would help me out a lot. I want to get my car tuned, I just know it needs to be 100% before it is tunes. I don’t want the tune to mask something or make it harder to diagnose what my issue is.

Dsg issue found:
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/images/pdf/VW-DSG-recall-warranty-extension.pdf

Dsg limits torque
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=477698

I bet it's the DSG as the engine mods should have helped gain power. Owain's statement below definitely confirms my suspicion about that possibility.

Owain@malonetuning said:

There is certainly a torque limiter in the DSG transmission on all DSG models, be it gas or diesel. Where it's set per model is different, on the EA189 platform it is intrusive in certain scenarios with just an ecu tune. You could have power limited at times, such as mid corner, and because of that we consider it a required tune. You could run a stage 2 without DSG tuning, it's not recommended, and we always send two ECU tunes (one with stock torque) in that case. You could always try it out, just be safe and expect a power cut at some point, although it's fairly hard to test off a dyno. Mark and Keir experienced this on HPA's dyno like six? years ago. HPA was the first to start using DSGs in racing applications, they are local to us and we've taken these developments very seriously. We do custom DSG tuning on big power gas cars as well.

To get around the torque limiter you can falsify the torque output values to the transmission. As a result, the transmission will try to limit slip as it occurs, rather than correctly calculating how much force it needs to apply based off the values it's given. This can result in more heat build up, clutch wear, and potentially warping. That is an unprofessional way to tune a car.

Click to expand...

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ktmkris said:

If anyone knows definitely if this is a issue of needing a tuner or not that would help me out a lot. I want to get my car tuned, I just know it needs to be 100% before it is tunes. I don’t want the tune to mask something or make it harder to diagnose what my issue is.

Click to expand...

Definitely should contact your preferred tuner and consult them. The peanut gallery here is a little less knowledgeable about the question above and can only guess.
Good luck and I hope you get it figured.

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I did auto scan. P0401 egr flow insufficient. There was another for thermostat slow to warm up. Other than that nothing.

ktmkris said:

I did auto scan. P0401 egr flow insufficient. There was another for thermostat slow to warm up. Other than that nothing.

Click to expand...

I would put a new thermostat in as that affects efficiency and power.
Again, contact your preferred tuner and consult them.

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Unplugged asv in open position. Made the car come alive quite a bit. Actually doesn’t throw a egr code now. Does have a code for asv now.

I wrote a email to Malone, hopefully will hear something back in the next few days.

Here is an observation I have made. Car does fine to I/2 throttle. Anything over half throttle does nothing, just makes a lot of racket but doesn’t speed up. I will admit I granny this car a lot, going for higher mileage.

If I run car for 2 or 3 miles at 4,000 rpm the car gets it power back for a short time. This leads me to the the vanes in the turbo are probably sticky.

Does that sound right?

ktmkris said:

Here is an observation I have made. Car does fine to I/2 throttle. Anything over half throttle does nothing, just makes a lot of racket but doesn’t speed up. I will admit I granny this car a lot, going for higher mileage.

If I run car for 2 or 3 miles at 4,000 rpm the car gets it power back for a short time. This leads me to the the vanes in the turbo are probably sticky.

Does that sound right?

Click to expand...

Yep. You gunked up the hell out of the turbo by driving like a granny. Go do 4k RPM on a highway for a few tens of miles.


You may also have a boost leak and/or sticky vanes causing overboost and then limp mode. VCDS logging or monitoring boost via ScanGauge II is required at this point.

I have scanguage and vcds. I am not going into limp mode, I always have some boost, just low on power. I have all new vacuum lines. I will clean the turbo with some oven cleaner. Hopefully that will get me back on track. Makes solid boost down low, but up top seems to be lacking