11mm injection pump with .184 injectors?

rohls

Active member
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
CA
TDI
MK4 golf
Hi,


I apologize if this is already somewhere...I couldn't find it.


I have a 2001 Golf ALH 5-speed. Stock injectors (I think; just bought the car).


How do I easily identify what injectors / nozzles I have?


I'm looking to replace the injection pump very soon. I need to be able to pass CA smog (lame).


What's my best bet as far as pump / injectors / pass smog / power / torque upgrades are concerned?


I'm looking at getting the 11mm (auto) pump now and running the .184 (stock) injectors. Then bumping up to the .205 injectors in a bit.


The PO said he put a stronger clutch (stage 3?) in it recently...no real way to confirm.


Sound like a plan...?



Thanks for the help!

Nick:)
 

ToxicDoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Location
Virginia, US
TDI
2001 Jetta, S7, .216
I would think a tune flasher that you could program in an emissions tune then retune to a performance tune would be ideal for you. That would be my approach. Any one of the larger tuner services should be able to hook you up.
 

rohls

Active member
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
CA
TDI
MK4 golf
Ah, cool idea. Can you point me to the right persons please...? I’m admittedly a little bit of a nOOb regarding TDIs still...

Many thanks!:)



I would think a tune flasher that you could program in an emissions tune then retune to a performance tune would be ideal for you. That would be my approach. Any one of the larger tuner services should be able to hook you up.
 

ketchupshirt88

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Location
waupaca, WI
TDI
2005 Passat daily, a bunch of others in the graveyard out back...
Anyone that sells a “loader” for their tunes. Kerma and Malone are the bigger 2 but there are other reputable tuners too that can keep their tunes Cali inspection legal.
 

flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
Nick, CA emissions testing for a Mk IV era TDI is: no CEL or codes, no visible
EGR/Cat delete and able to 'rev' the engine without more that a modest visible haze.
You should be OK as long as you aren't 'rolling coal'.

As for mods, you can get a lot more power with just nozzles and a tune.
 
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rohls

Active member
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
CA
TDI
MK4 golf
Great news! Thanks :)


Just out of curiosity, where'd you find that info...? :)



Nick, CA emissions testing for a Mk IV era TDI is: no CEL or codes, no visible
EGR/Cat delete and able to 'rev' the engine without more that a modest visible haze.
You should be OK as long as you aren't 'rolling coal'.

As for mods, you can get a lot more power with just nozzles and a tune.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
So you don't know what nozzles are in the car, don't know what clutch is in the car, can't pass SMOG, but have decided that replacing one of the most expensive components in the car is the way to pass. Seems you could be headed down any number of blind alleys.

Have you attempted to pass SMOG? If so, what did they say? If not, what makes you think you won't pass with the car as is? If it's in good stock condition then it should pass.

If the seller upgraded the clutch (allegedly) then it's possible he also upgraded the nozzles. Only way to be sure is to pull one and look at it. Even then you might not be able to tell, you may have to disassemble the injector.

And if you have larger nozzles, and upgrade the pump, the car will have had two fueling upgrades which may cause it to fail SMOG. There are other issues, too, like the downpipe and CAT. CA insists on OE.

You don't say where you are in CA but one of the best gurus out there is in the Bay Area. Unfortunately there are few, if any, good TDI mechanics in LA. I'd suggest you get the car to someone who can help you determine what you're starting with before replacing hardware.
 

rohls

Active member
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
CA
TDI
MK4 golf
Like I said it's a new car to me and a known medium-budget project.


Doesn't currently run.


Avoiding the long gory details...PO had big issues with dirty bio. Changed everything in the fuel circuit...minus, from what I can tell, the injectors.



It is currently registered and was smogged a max of two years. Since I know as transferring the title in my name, CA requires I get the thing smogged. What about PNO? Doesn't work that way. Guess how I figured that out? I went to the DMV. I have an incomplete title transfer UNTIL I get it smogged.



I investigated the 'new fuel circuit'. Seems to check out; clean fresh tank, lines, filter...and he has receipts for a NEW OE IP ~20k miles ago.


I was very hesitant to crack open the IP. I did anyway. VERY RUSTY and full of debris. I pondered tearing it apart and cleaning it out...since I did not find adequate resources (diagrams, instructions, expert opinions) to leave me to complete this procedure with great confidence, I opted to get a rebuilt IP from one of the fine gentlemen on this forum. I should see it next week with some luck.


The new pump I'm receiving is the 11mm IP.


Regarding injectors...well, they are dirty and/or stuck in the head, I've only been able to remove 2 of 4 (tool on the way). Plan is to remove, open, clean and replace them. From what I gather the car was running with them a few months ago...and I don't want to spend $250 on injectors at this moment...so yup. That's that.



How does one decipher what nozzles one has? I would imagine there is a PN / code on the nozzle itself...? Like I said, I need to clean / disassemble and figure that out still...


My question I suppose, was really if I have this 11mm pump on the way and run the 0.184 micron (stock 5-speed) injectors in CA, does anyone see an issue when I need to go smog it....?


I'm in the Bay Area, but would like to keep the hands on stuff to myself...very open to advise, but got this car knowing and wanting a fun project.



Thanks for the feedback! I appreciate it.




So you don't know what nozzles are in the car, don't know what clutch is in the car, can't pass SMOG, but have decided that replacing one of the most expensive components in the car is the way to pass. Seems you could be headed down any number of blind alleys.

Have you attempted to pass SMOG? If so, what did they say? If not, what makes you think you won't pass with the car as is? If it's in good stock condition then it should pass.

If the seller upgraded the clutch (allegedly) then it's possible he also upgraded the nozzles. Only way to be sure is to pull one and look at it. Even then you might not be able to tell, you may have to disassemble the injector.

And if you have larger nozzles, and upgrade the pump, the car will have had two fueling upgrades which may cause it to fail SMOG. There are other issues, too, like the downpipe and CAT. CA insists on OE.

You don't say where you are in CA but one of the best gurus out there is in the Bay Area. Unfortunately there are few, if any, good TDI mechanics in LA. I'd suggest you get the car to someone who can help you determine what you're starting with before replacing hardware.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
If the pump is rusty odds are the injector bodies are, too. Unpleasant as it may be, I'd suggest you send them out to a Bosch repair center and have them cleaned, new nozzles installed, and tested. It will probably make the difference between passing and not passing SMOG. You may find you need new complete injectors, as you do a pump. Bad alternative fuels can be a money pit.

If you get the injectors working properly I would think .184s with an 11mm pump and the IQ set higher than usual should pass SMOG. But I really don't know. I'm applying logic, which may or may not work in this situation.
 

rohls

Active member
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
CA
TDI
MK4 golf
You guys are great; thank you!


Yes, definitely going to go through the injectors and clean them...see how bad they are. Chances are I'll replace them soon, BUT I'd like to see if this car is going to run at all before I put more and more $$ into 'er.


I was thinking something along the lines of ultrasonic bath with some warmed-up rust remover as solvent...? Then test them..I'm pretty sure my Grandpa has a injector tester.


Thanks





If the pump is rusty odds are the injector bodies are, too. Unpleasant as it may be, I'd suggest you send them out to a Bosch repair center and have them cleaned, new nozzles installed, and tested. It will probably make the difference between passing and not passing SMOG. You may find you need new complete injectors, as you do a pump. Bad alternative fuels can be a money pit.

If you get the injectors working properly I would think .184s with an 11mm pump and the IQ set higher than usual should pass SMOG. But I really don't know. I'm applying logic, which may or may not work in this situation.
 

rohls

Active member
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
CA
TDI
MK4 golf
Injectors are all cleaned up with the ultrasonic cleaner: look great. I even bench tested them with a proper injector tester.


Thanks for the help.





You guys are great; thank you!


Yes, definitely going to go through the injectors and clean them...see how bad they are. Chances are I'll replace them soon, BUT I'd like to see if this car is going to run at all before I put more and more $$ into 'er.


I was thinking something along the lines of ultrasonic bath with some warmed-up rust remover as solvent...? Then test them..I'm pretty sure my Grandpa has a injector tester.


Thanks
 

eddieleephd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Battle Ground, Wa
TDI
2002 jetta Wagon
You guys are great; thank you!


Yes, definitely going to go through the injectors and clean them...see how bad they are. Chances are I'll replace them soon, BUT I'd like to see if this car is going to run at all before I put more and more $$ into 'er.


I was thinking something along the lines of ultrasonic bath with some warmed-up rust remover as solvent...? Then test them..I'm pretty sure my Grandpa has a injector tester.


Thanks
Do a compression test first then and check the condition of the rings, head, and block. That will tell you more about if it will run quicker than anything!
You're looking for 500psi compression. Drop a table spoon of engine oil in the cylinder and hook up your compression tester. If it hits 500 psi or close it'll run no problem once all the other kinks in the fuel are worked out. Otherwise you're looking at engine work.
Go with the injectors you want, there's no reason that if tuned properly that .205 injectors and an 11mm pump won't pass inspections so long as it's running well and warmed up when you go in for the test.


I wouldn't jump into much more than cleaning the injector bodies. the nozzles need to be cleaned with sonic cleaning and if you try to use tools you will destroy their ability to perform and likely cause catastrophic damage to the engine! Which I see you have done...
Injectors are all cleaned up with the ultrasonic cleaner: look great. I even bench tested them with a proper injector tester.


Thanks for the help.
It's highly recommended to have your injectors professionally cleaned and setup so that they flow properly and within certain parameters so they don't cause holes in the block or piston heads.
At minimum you should perform a pop test to ensure that the initial injection occurs at the correct pressure. If this is not done you truly risk the loss of your engine and a fun project might just be lost.
If you want to have this project for a while take the time to search around and look at all the how to's available in the tdi 101 section and the search engine which is a tremendous resource that utilizes all the best VW specific forums for the answer to your question.
Do not go cheap unless you want it to fail and cost more in the end! Buy quality and respected reputable brands at good prices anywhere, but especially check out the vendor section for deals from the forums trusted vendors.
 
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jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI
TDI
2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh
Why do you recommend a wet compression test?
 

jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI
TDI
2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh
Gotcha, probably wouldn't hurt to roll it over several times to disperse it and blow out the extra then?
 
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