Gas quickly catching up to diesel price

flatlanded

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Location
Saskatchewan
TDI
2002 Jetta
Gee whiz, I was under the mistaken impression that prices were simply the result of rampant greed by the oil companies. I'm always impressed by how EVERY SINGLE oil supply 'crisis' results in new record profits for the oil companies. It a nice business when interruptions and cost increases in your supply, even imaginary ones, actually increase your profit rather than decrease it.

I'm not saying it's fair but when they think they might lose a buck, they'll jack up the prices to stop it from happening. There's never a fear of making a buck, just losing one.

To above posts:

Most refineries (atleast the ones in Western Canada) have their turnaround in spring (April-May) so they are indeed shut down. Also, two provinces worth of farmers @ <1% seeded does create a surplus. Maybe not globally, but definately locally.

I know of a local refinery that was certain they would run out of RUG but not Diesel before they had it back up and running. Shut down is almost over and I haven't heard what the levels are.
 

TDI smile

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Jul 11, 2012
Location
Edmonton, Alberta (b4 BC - LOWER MAINLAND = Chilli
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2002 TDI (ALH) with 513,000 km. First Owner and very happy... No Problems, never left us stranded on the Highway. Average useage is about between under 4 ltr. and 5 ltr. Normal longdistance travel: 4.1/100
Here in the Edmonton Area the Gas Price is 1.079. DIESEL is between 1.20 and 1.29
 

jmodge

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Greenville, MI
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2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh
gas was $2.58 yesterday and Diesel $3.34 here
 

El Dobro

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NJ
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2017 Bolt EV Premier, 2023 Bolt EUV Premier
Diesel is now running about .20 above premium around here.
 

jettawreck

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Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Regular unleaded gas locally is $2.86. Diesel is $3.299.
News said this morning diesel prices next year are expected to climb, even spike up. Passenger/Cruise and freight ships will be switching from heavy fuels over to diesel fuel to meet some new emissions standards. Airline prices also to go up accordingly.
 

Borsig

Vendor , w/Business number
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Oct 22, 2009
Location
va
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2015 GSW SEL (buyback), 2011 JSW (sold)
2.39 for RUg here in va, Diesel 3.00


getting sick of it
 

El Dobro

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Feb 21, 2006
Location
NJ
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2017 Bolt EV Premier, 2023 Bolt EUV Premier
At the Speedway, it's $2.55 R, $3.05 P and 3.29 D. At the Phillips 66, it's $2.64 R, $3.09 P and $3.57 D. I don't recall ever seeing a difference like this.
 

2000alhVW

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Aug 30, 2018
Location
Silver Spring, MD
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2000 Golf
I have been noticing the extremely large gap between 87 and premium gas as well. When I was younger (10 year ago), I noticed it was typically 10 cents apart - 1.80, 1.90, and 2.00, for example, 87, 91, and 93 respectively.

Now I notice there's a ~60 cent gap between 87 and 91, and ~20 between 91 and 93. Quite a large gap. Then diesel is somewhere around 91's price I suppose.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
This past weekend I was in Los Angeles and diesel was $.10-$.20 less than RUG in the stations I noticed. It was also expensive: at one station diesel was $4.19 and RUG was $4.29. That diesel price is about $1 more than here in MA, and RUG was close to $1.50 more than here. CARB Summer fuel is a factor.
 

piotrsko

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Reno Nv
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2013 Golf, 2000 F-250 (7.3)
Might not be a factor. Summer fuel was supposed to switch in October, or at least the fuel we get from San Francisco.
 

AndyBees

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Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
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Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Over the last several months (going back to mid-summer), along I-75 in Kentucky, the spread in price between Diesel and RUG has widened. Right now, Pilot (FlyingJ) has self-serve Diesel at $3.35 and RUG at $2.32. Diesel can be found a bit cheaper away from the Interstate, but nothing under $2.99. RUG is upwards from the $2.32 everywhere else.

In recent years in this region (KY, TN, GA, etc.), Love, Pilot/FlyingJ have almost developed a monopoly forcing locals to follow them in price.

Long for the days when Diesel was 5 cents to 35 cents cheaper.... but, those days are gone!
 

Powder Hound

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Joined
Oct 25, 1999
Location
Under a Bridge, Crestview, FL, USA
TDI
'00 Golf 4dr White 5sp, '02 Jettachero 5sp, Wife's '03 NB Platinum Gray auto(!)
The winter heating season is in full force here in new england. The snow isn't here in depth yet, but the day's highs are no higher than mid 30s F.

Historically, diesel prices rise in winter due to demand for heating oil since it is the same cut as diesel. Gasoline prices drop because people aren't driving as much. Hence the reversal of relative price movement.

I expect to see prices moving in that direction (higher for diesel) more, as it has already started in that direction.

Cheers,

PH
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Location
South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Saw this yesterday in Madison, WI:

Thought it was a big price gap, but driving home I saw differences close to a dollar in Ohio and PA.
 

Lightflyer1

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Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Driving around today I've noticed that gas is only about 5-8 cents cheaper than diesel. It looks like diesel will be cheaper than gas soon if gas keeps going up at the rate its been.
What about you guys are you seeing the same price spread in your area?
Gas here is $2.17 and D2 is $2.84. No where near close to each other.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I was in LA a couple weeks ago and was surprised by how much more gasoline cost compared to MA, where taxes aren't especially low. I saw one station near Pasadena where RUG was $4.49. Cheapest we could find near there was $3.65.
 

2015GSW

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May 10, 2018
Location
SLC Utah
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2015 GSW TDI DSG
If you look at post 32 and 33 this thread was dead for 7 years 5 months but then brought back to life a month ago. In Utah diesel is about 30 cents more per gallon than regular unleaded gasoline in the summer and about 60 cents more per gallon in the winter. 2 months ago at Costco diesel was only $2.83 a gallon but now it's $3.25 or more. That is the only time in the past 4 years that I have seen diesel selling for less than regular unleaded gasoline.
 

AndyBees

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Location
Southeast Kentucky
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Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
From January, 1980 until September-October, 2005, I enjoyed diesel prices ranging from 5 to 40 cents per gallon less than RUG. My first VW Diesel was a 1980 Rabbit.

The spread here along I-75 in southeast Kentucky ranges from 60 cents to over a $1.00 per gallon, Diesel vs RUG. Just west along the Hwy 27 corridor in Tennessee and Kentucky, the price difference consistently hangs around 60 cents difference.

These are my diesel powered vehicles

1974 - Jetta 1.6
1984 - Vanagon (2002 Jetta TDI engine)
1992 - Allegro Bay (5.9 Cummins, 12 valve)
1998 - Dodge Shop Truck (5.9 Cummins, 24 valve)
2000 - Jetta TDI (given to my son at 371k miles)
2003 - Jetta TDI
1970 (give or take a few years) - Yanmar Mini Excavator (3-cylinder)
 

FiveFilter

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Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Location
Louisiana
TDI
2013
I bought my first diesel in 1996 when the price of diesel was always significantly lower than regular unleaded. Back in those days, when you combined the low price of diesel along with the significantly better mileage of a diesel, it was not hard to justify the premium price of the diesel engine. It made real economic sense.

Today, not so much. The price of RUG around here is about 70 to 80 cents per gallon cheaper than diesel. And I'm averaging 44mpg with my 2015 gasoline car on RUG. And I talked with a fellow yesterday whose 1994 gasoline car had 350,000 miles on it without an overhaul, and his mileage on RUG averaged 39mpg on the highway.

When you throw in the headaches, economic and otherwise, of today's diesel needing to have particulate filters and all the other environmental stuff that VW was trying to avoid but couldn't do so legally, I don't think I would buy a new diesel today.

I'm saddened about the whole thing.
 

tikal

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Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
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2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Average MPG tell the closest to the truth!

Looking at millions and millions of miles accumulated and the resultant real life accurate average MPG in the last 10 years or so (reference Fuelly and similar databases):

* The latest (2008-2018) small cars such as a Toyota Corolla, Mazda 3, Honda Civic, etc. with a gasoline engine (without particulate filter) are averaging around 30 MPG approximately (arithmetic average).

* Looking at the Jetta TDI (common rail engine with DPF) the average goes up to around 39 MPG with millions and millions of miles accumulated miles between 2009 and 2015.

CONCLUSION 1: Jetta TDIs with DPF (and probably similar modern light duty diesel vehicles) are around 30% more efficient than similar size gasoline vehicles without particulate filter. Due to the laws of physic and thermodynamic the efficiency gap widens as the vehicles become heavier and larger.

CONCLUSION 2: neither the price of gasoline (RUG) is catching up to the price of D2 nor the average efficiency of gasoline vehicles (without particulate filter) is coming any closer to the one of similar size light duty diesel vehicles with DPF.

I bought my first diesel in 1996 when the price of diesel was always significantly lower than regular unleaded. Back in those days, when you combined the low price of diesel along with the significantly better mileage of a diesel, it was not hard to justify the premium price of the diesel engine. It made real economic sense.
Today, not so much. The price of RUG around here is about 70 to 80 cents per gallon cheaper than diesel. And I'm averaging 44mpg with my 2015 gasoline car on RUG. And I talked with a fellow yesterday whose 1994 gasoline car had 350,000 miles on it without an overhaul, and his mileage on RUG averaged 39mpg on the highway.
When you throw in the headaches, economic and otherwise, of today's diesel needing to have particulate filters and all the other environmental stuff that VW was trying to avoid but couldn't do so legally, I don't think I would buy a new diesel today.
I'm saddened about the whole thing.
 

greenskeeper

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Location
USA
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI
Looking at millions and millions of miles accumulated and the resultant real life accurate average MPG in the last 10 years or so (reference Fuelly and similar databases):
* The latest (2008-2018) small cars such as a Toyota Corolla, Mazda 3, Honda Civic, etc. with a gasoline engine (without particulate filter) are averaging around 30 MPG approximately (arithmetic average).
* Looking at the Jetta TDI (common rail engine with DPF) the average goes up to around 39 MPG with millions and millions of miles accumulated miles between 2009 and 2015.
CONCLUSION 1: Jetta TDIs with DPF (and probably similar modern light duty diesel vehicles) are around 30% more efficient than similar size gasoline vehicles without particulate filter. Due to the laws of physic and thermodynamic the efficiency gap widens as the vehicles become heavier and larger.
CONCLUSION 2: neither the price of gasoline (RUG) is catching up to the price of D2 nor the average efficiency of gasoline vehicles (without particulate filter) is coming any closer to the one of similar size light duty diesel vehicles with DPF.
Diesel is 30% more expensive here so it's a wash fuel cost per mile, add in the extra initial cost it's a loss for diesel....just the way the EPA wants it.
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Well, from March, 2002, I kept detail records in an Excel spreadsheet on my 2000 Jetta. The stats included the price of RUG at the Station where I filled up with Diesel. It had a comparative column to the use of RUG vs Diesel based on the 30% rule. Today, with diesel fuel ranging from 60 cents to $1.15 more that RUG ... there's virtually no savings.

Like others, I'm saddened too. However, I did pass my 2000 on to my son about a month ago with 371k miles on it ... new TB job and lots of other work that should take it another 100k miles. He got it free. So, the fuel economy savings are his.

Also, last January, I purchased my brother's 03 Jetta with an 01 engine at 302k miles. I got it up and going about a month ago (leaking IP) when I gave my 2000 to my son. I got the 03 for $2500. Good tires, clean, no rust, etc., but it does need a TB job. So, with the low investment, it makes sense to keep it going.

But, unless there's a considerable change with fuel, I doubt I'll ever buy a new VW diesel.

The TDI in my Vanagon averages about 30 mpg from tank to tank. I can baby it and get 35-37 or I can drive it pretty hard and it'll give me 26 to 27. Considering the WBXer gasser engine is doing good at 20 to 21 MPG, this is a no brainer.

My next conversion (89 Vanagon BlueStar) is going to get a 2.2 5-cylinder gasser. It should do a smidge better than the 4-banger gasser and have more torque.
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Keep in mind that, for some people, the additional torque/performance of a TDI or other light duty diesel vehicles is a 'value' that many gasoline engines do not have.

I have driven both our Passat TDI wagon and Mazda 5 in the mountains and even less hilly areas and it would be hard to justify giving priority to drive the Mazda 5 despite the spread of D2 to RUG being around 60 cents to like $1.
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Correct the above.

Start increasing the size of the vehicle to what Americans want to buy and drive on a daily basis, and you either need a light duty diesel engine ($$), a hybrid diesel ($$$ and non-existent I think) or an electrical one ($$$$) to get performance and efficiency in one package.
 

miltoncf

Spammer
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Location
arizona
TDI
ALH jetta wagon
Correct the above.

Start increasing the size of the vehicle to what Americans want to buy and drive on a daily basis, and you either need a light duty diesel engine ($$), a hybrid diesel ($$$ and non-existent I think) or an electrical one ($$$$) to get performance and efficiency in one package.
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/living/education/13796737.htm

"In 2006, students from Philadelphia created a diesel-electric hybrid car based on a kit called the Attack, which used soybean fuel that could go from 0-60 mph in 4.0 seconds and still achieve 50 MPG. The students altered the frame to accommodate a 200-horsepower electric motor and 150-horsepower, turbocharged Volkswagen diesel engine."
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Hybrid diesel prototype

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/living/education/13796737.htm

"In 2006, students from Philadelphia created a diesel-electric hybrid car based on a kit called the Attack, which used soybean fuel that could go from 0-60 mph in 4.0 seconds and still achieve 50 MPG. The students altered the frame to accommodate a 200-horsepower electric motor and 150-horsepower, turbocharged Volkswagen diesel engine."
Good to know. Thanks for sharing the link.
 
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