Buyback Snafu: Dealer Claims Fuel-Injection Pump Damaged By Bad Fuel

I have a 2009 Jetta TDI that I was planning to drive for another 3-6 months before selling back to VW under the terms of the class action settlement. Predictably, about 10 days ago the engine started making a clanking noise and then completely cut out. I had it towed to the dealer, who said the issue was a bad fuel pump, which would be covered by VW under warranty. The following day I left the country for an overseas trip and didn't hear anything from the dealer while I was away (I told the service department I would be out of town and to contact me by email if anything came up). I came back to a voicemail that the mechanic had run into an "issue" and to call.

This morning, the dealer told me that they had run a test and determined that the pump failure was caused by bad diesel, voiding the warranty and requiring an installation of a new fuel line at a cost of about $4,000. The person I spoke to said that I should contact my insurance to see if they would cover the cost. I asked what exactly was "bad" about the diesel and was told they didn't know and that I would need to pay extra for that testing. I also asked for paperwork or other documentation of the test and was told I'd get a call back, which I never received.

For what it's worth, I last refueled the car about a month ago, and I'm sure I filled up with diesel, not gasoline. I don't have a receipt from the gas station but I do have a record of the charge on my credit card statement. I drove the car for several weeks after filing up and didn't notice any problem until it started making noise about ten minutes before everything cut out.

I don't know very much about vehicles, so I can't tell if I'm getting taken for a ride or not, but I'd very much like to avoid paying $4,000 for the privilege of repairing a car that I plan to trade in in the next few months (if not sooner--this experience has made me even more eager to be rid of the thing).

To those more knowledgable: Does this story sound plausible to you? What's the best way to push back here, and with whom (dealer, VW, gas station)? I get the sense that everyone will point fingers at everyone else and I'll be left with nothing to do but fork over 4 grand -- but I'd love to be wrong.

Thanks all in advance. I am new to this forum but greatly appreciate your advice.

You may want to begin digging through posts on the other than dieselgate subforums for more information. However, in the case of a denied warranty repair, it's contingent upon VW to prove damage was caused by bad fuel. Also, you can get the work performed by an independent for a lower cost.

And thus I am reminded why I did the buyback. The cost per mile was great...until you needed a repair.

You basically want to do the bare minimum required to get it running if VW can't be persuaded to cover it under warranty. Used hpfp and injectors if needed, installed by an Indy mechanic. Then, once running again, do not drive the car - get it towed to the dealer for the buyback.

gulfcoastguy said:

And thus I am reminded why I did the buyback. The cost per mile was great...until you needed a repair.

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Yes, that's why I got rid of my 2009 as soon as I could, last December. Never had a repair while I had it and wanted to get rid of it before a big ticket item came up.

BTW this guy went to the media when VW claimed bad fuel and they decided to fix his TDI.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4909483&postcount=6709

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4910546&postcount=6714

First I'd try like hell to get VWoA to cover the repair. If they claim bad fuel, then the onus is on them to prove it with certified lab results. If all else fails and you can't find a cheap used hpfp, IDparts has reman. units for $400+ shipping.

What warranty is left on an 8 or 9 year old TDI?

I know there is the big extended warranty but I thought that was only for cars that have undergone the Phase I fix (not available on the Gen 1 cars).

There's an extended warranty on the HPFP to 120k miles through MY2012.

subscribed.

Thank you everyone for the tips. I was able to get a photo of the test the dealer did supposedly showing bad fuel (which amounts to a frowny face). I plan to call VoA tmrw and see if I can make any headway at all. We'll see.

Yeah, the frowny face just means they're required to send it to the lab. If all they've done is use the emoji tester, that's the wrong answer per VW's own guidance.

This all reminds me of giving a heart transplant to a prisoner on death row, so he is healthy enough to execute.

Something I'm not clear on is a "bad fuel" timeline.

Sure, if there was gasoline or something non-usable in the tank, the engine would likely show effects immediately.

However, if it's truly "bad diesel" that they're blaming it on, I expect this would have been run through the tank many moons ago, i.e. not likely the fuel that's currently in the tank.

So what exactly is VW checking?

gulfcoastguy said:

And thus I am reminded why I did the buyback. The cost per mile was great...until you needed a repair.

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This

PacCoastFwy923 said:

Something I'm not clear on is a "bad fuel" timeline.

Sure, if there was gasoline or something non-usable in the tank, the engine would likely show effects immediately.

However, if it's truly "bad diesel" that they're blaming it on, I expect this would have been run through the tank many moons ago, i.e. not likely the fuel that's currently in the tank.

So what exactly is VW checking?

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The dealerships are given cheap portable electronic fuel "sniffers". I assume they pulled a sample from the tank and the sniffer didn't like it. That's a long, long way from certified lab results. The sniffer basically gives a pass/fail result. A lab will analyze the fuel sample and show exactly what is in it, and at what concentration.

Two things ,If they claim bad fuel go to the refinery with the issue,, they will dispell any Bad fuel issue I bet, and secondly, VW takes it seriously,, If you try and order the pump at a dealer, head office wants to know whats up.

The refinery will do you no good as the station could have had contaminated fuel. You would have had to have a sample from the station from when the car was refueled. Getting a sample from the tank of the car and having it independently tested may do some good. Assuming no one at the dealer has tampered with it. The test is fairly expensive though.

The smiley face / sad face tester was sent to do a quick field test of the fuel. It was put out to give dealerships a quick way to APPROVE warranty claims without sending the sample to the lab. It has a HIGH false positive rate, but the procedure for a positive (SAD FACE) is to send the sample to a lab contracted by VW .

Humble Mechanic has a good discussion on the warranty extension

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX7ejwNa5lU

An update: After a lot of time on the phone, I was able to wheedle an agreement by VoA to cover 25% at the dealer. Still, the service guy I spoke to at the dealer said that the out of pocket would come to $2600.

I called around to a couple of garages and asked what it would cost to replace the pumps/fuel line. They said they weren't sure, but estimated about $1300, maybe less if not everything had to be replaced.

I'm assuming a non-dealer mechanic can patch this up at least enough to get it operable, but I don't know whether $1300 is realistic -- or worth the hassle. The dealer left a bad taste in my mouth, so despite the hassle of getting it towed from the dealer I'm inclined to take it to a local guy. But maybe it's just worth taking the 25% and being done with it.

Everyone in the forum has been terrifically helpful thus far, so I was thinking I'd throw it open to you. What do you think I should do? Am I still getting ripped off by the dealer or is this the best I can reasonably hope for?

Once again, thanks for your help -- I have the vague sense I'm still being screwed, but at least I understand why now!

Did they show you real fuel test results? Do you have more than 120k miles? If you haven't seen real testing results and less than 120k miles I wouldn't take that deal at all.

Lightflyer1 said:

Did they show you real fuel test results? Do you have more than 120k miles? If you haven't seen real testing results and less than 120k miles I wouldn't take that deal at all.

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I have 60k miles, and was told several times by different people that VOA has changed its policy and no longer sends out fuel for third party testing. I can work with the dealer to send the fuel for testing but would be responsible for the cost.

The dealer is still trying to screw you. Whatever they say their policy is, the law is another thing entirely. They are required to show proof of contamination in order to deny warranty coverage. The test they did does not constitute proof. I would have the car towed to another dealer.

There's an attorney in Ohio who solicits for hpfp cases like yours. I'll let you search them out since I don't know them from Adam, but it may be worth a phone call. If you can threaten VWGOA with repair and legal fees, perhaps they'll flinch (or at least send your fuel to the lab).

The dealer price is what it is, and if you were keeping the car you'd have the comfort of knowing that it's a genuine, new part, and it's backed by VW. That peace of mind is valuable to some owners. But for you -- for a buyback -- any shade tree mechanic and a scavenged part is all I'd want.

As others have said, this was all written into the agreement with the NHTSA , their investigation, and the warranty extension.

Dealerships were provided with a field test to expedite the APPROVAL of claims. This field test has a high false positive rate.

A false positive requires them to send the sample to a testing lab, (its a french company as I recall) and the independent testing lab provides a report in 2-3 weeks.

If they have not sent the sample to the lab and provided you with the results (again this takes several weeks, sample collection, fedexing sample etc) you are being screwed by the dealership/VW.

Keep fighting..

Just to be clear, "high false positive" means the test they are showing you has a very high tendency to indicate the fuel is bad even if the fuel is ok.

That's why when it test's "positive" (for bad fuel) it's supposed to be sent out to a laboratory to confirm why it's bad.

Do you have a mis-fueling guard on your car? There was a recall sent out in the past to install the mis-fueling guard in order to be eligible for the extended warranty to 120,000 miles.

The issue here is not whether the owner did the buyback before the part failed.The issue is that the dealer is stating that the pump failed due to bad fuel, yet they are unwilling to substantiate this- in a car that has a demonstrated record of the pump failing, which is why it has an extended warranty in the first place.

Hi folks -- just a quick update. At your encouragement, I pressed forward with both the dealer and VOA but seem to have hit another roadblock.

The dealer basically told me to go pound sand.

VOA, meanwhile, stated that they no longer send fuel out to be verified via independent third party testing and instead rely exclusively on the fuel identification test performed at the dealer. I pointed out that Volkswagen's own website says that the test unit the dealer used "serves as an orientation aid and is NO substitute for any laboratory analysis that may be necessary." https://vw.snapon.com/SpecialToolsDetail.aspx?itemId=39500123. To my mind, that is pretty persuasive. But not, apparently, to VOA. They said that they were not in a position to pay for further testing and that I should pursue recourse outside of VOA.

Unless anyone has any technical or other information to share, I think my options at this point are to pursue some type of litigation or arbitration or just take the car to an independent mechanic to jerry-rig a solution as cheaply as possible. I am a lawyer myself and not especially keen on wasting the time it would take to pursue this seriously. But a part of me feels there is a principle involved all the same!

In any case, while immensely frustrating, this has still been an interesting and educational experience. Thanks to this forum for pitching in along the way. I only regret that I won't be back in the future, because I am damn well sure my next car won't be a VW!

Can't say that I blame you. VW's customer service here is absolute crap. I think you'd win in litigation, but what a headache. Good luck whichever way you go with it!

This is just another example of why some of us (accurately) call them 'stealerships'. I avoid them at all costs. I HAVE to take mine in for the emissions recall, but as soon as it's done, it won't be going back......ever. I love VW TDIs, have owned 2 and looking to buy another older model. But the VWoA dealerships are legendary in their crooked and destructive behavior. I've had numerous things on my cars broken by these dealerships: radiator mounts, air box screw holes smashed and destroyed, cracked wheels (lugs put on too tight), missing splash guard screws, incorrect fuel filter and gasket causing fuel to squirt all over the inside of the engine compartment (happened TWICE), no air filter put back into the box, hood insulator ripped in half, spare tire removed and not put back in, cut headliner when they replaced the windshield, and I could go on, and on, and on!

As a couple of others have said, just get the thing where the engine will run using used parts and tow it in for a buyback....and be done with it.

StayPuff said:

This is just another example of why some of us (accurately) call them 'stealerships'. I avoid them at all costs. I HAVE to take mine in for the emissions recall, but as soon as it's done, it won't be going back......ever. I love VW TDIs, have owned 2 and looking to buy another older model. But the VWoA dealerships are legendary in their crooked and destructive behavior. I've had numerous things on my cars broken by these dealerships: radiator mounts, air box screw holes smashed and destroyed, cracked wheels (lugs put on too tight), missing splash guard screws, incorrect fuel filter and gasket causing fuel to squirt all over the inside of the engine compartment (happened TWICE), no air filter put back into the box, hood insulator ripped in half, spare tire removed and not put back in, cut headliner when they replaced the windshield, and I could go on, and on, and on!

As a couple of others have said, just get the thing where the engine will run using used parts and tow it in for a buyback....and be done with it.

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"and be done with it?" my God.. please pursue this...this sends a trend for VOA to screw other people...sue them and recover your cost if possible.. it states that they must provide further proof in fuel contamination ..and "they are not in a position to pay for further testing?? " WHY NOT!? not your problem! I just wish there was a class action suit against them for ignoring their own stipulations in their warranty...this is sad...and should really piss off others