need hd truck, NEED help!

Sooo...I just sold my Touareg V6 TDI back to VW on wednesday and have been looking for a truck for a while. I've found 3 possible options, somewhat close, and have searched and read and searched and read and driven and searched and read...and I still can't make up my mind.

A little background - I have a 7k # camper that my touareg towed easily, but am looking to upgrade to a 5th wheel next year. I don't take many trips each year - probably less than 10, most about 1-200 miles...maybe a 700-1000 miler once or twice a year. I'll also be getting another little mk4 tdi to commute with, but the truck will be my bad weather transportation in the winter, as I work in a hospital.

Anyhow, here are the 3 that I can't decide between...

2002 F250 Super Duty 4WD 7.3 Truck. Mechanically very tight, Body in very good condition paint two years old, 2014 bed with Tonneau cover, new cab corners when painted. New injectors, Glow Plugs, Turbo & Base, Down Pipes, HP Oil Pump, Oil Lines, Regulators and Sensors, Radiator. Does not burn oil, no leaks. Many other items in interior and exterior have been replaced or modified, Must see. A very good truck, well maintained, 95% of mileage is highway miles. 350k miles. Needs new front springs, and inner rockers replaced. 30 year diesel mechanic owned, he has used it for his escort business for the last 100k miles. 350k miles. Asking 8500.

2007 F350 crew cab, New head gaskets, studs, heads machined, new lifters, new oil cooler, cooler deleted. New water pump and radiator. Engine resealed, all new updated parts from ford. New rear calipers and pads, new parking brake assemblies. New shocks. Injectors replaced with in the last year, ujoints and tie rod ends recently replaced. New tailgate, factory wheels powder coated, 2" leveling kit practically new 285 tires, LED lights through out the truck. Truck has 280k, very clean, solid body very little rust, few scratches, dent on bottom of rear bumper. 280k miles. Ford master technician owned. He did all of the work. Asking 11500.

2005 Dodge Ram 3500 SLT. It is a quad cab with a short bed and single rear wheel. It has the 5.9 Cummins motor, no emissions checks or dealing with DEF, with just under 310,000 miles. I purchased it with 248,000 miles. It is a 6 speed manual transmission. Everything works fine. There is a gooseneck ball installed in the bed by the previous owner. There are two spots of rust. One is on the driver side fender, the other on the driver side bed above the wheel well. Neither has rusted all the way through. Tires were replaced with 285/75/17 Nitto Terra Grapplers. There are 5 tires, the spare is matching and gets rotated with the others. Speedometer was corrected with a Smarty. Never turned the Smarty up high as I didn't want to risk damaging the motor. Edge CTS is only a display for gauges. It does have an EGT probe. Offroad lights on the front are Hella driving lights. Currently not hooked up, but they did work at one time.

Parts replaced/upgrades:
Afe intake @ 250k
5 inch turbo back exhaust with muffler @ 250k
Secondary fuel filter added @ 254k
Driver side hub bearing @ 257k
Passenger side hub bearing @ 288k
Axle u-joints replaced with Spicer joints @ 266,500
Two new batteries @267k in March 2014
Raptor fuel pump added in June 2014
All injectors replaced with Industrial Injection 50hp injectors @ 271k
+08.5 Steering Linkage to replace old style @ 273k in Sept 2014
Carli track bar to correct death wobble @ 280k in March 2015
Carli ball joints installed @ 282k in May 2015
Nitto Terra Grappler tires in June 2015
Water pump replaced @ 292k in Jan 2016
Replaced worn cloth seats with Laramie leather seats from a 2014 Ram
Asking 13000, but willing to negotiate.

All bodies are in comparable condition. Again, I'm just looking for thoughts. I tend to look for the best value - in case I'd need to resell it at some point.

Any an all opinions are welcome!

Thanks!

Tyler

There's a reason you'll find the Cummins ISB powering cranes, fire pump stations, mining equipment, and many other applications. In industrial applications running near WOT most of their life they typically last over 10,000 hours, the first to wear is usually the camshaft. The 7.3 is an alright engine, but the bottom end isn't as robust, and the fuel injection setup is inefficient and nowhere near as reliable as the CP3 common rail setup in the newer ISB. The CP3 is as reliable as the legendary P7100 powering the 12 valve.

The '05 Cummins was an odd year, it had some of the most failures of the common rail Cummins engines, but they were still once in a blue moon and less often than the 7.3. The injectors were not perfected yet, they still had a few failures due to poor filtration, hence why the '05 you listed has an aftermarket filtration system. '03-'04 engines had 2 injection events, '04.5-'05 had 3 injection events, '06 to '07 had 5 or 6 injection events. The '06 to '07 fuel injectors are the most robust.

crazyrunner33 said:

There's a reason you'll find the Cummins ISB powering cranes, fire pump stations, mining equipment, and many other applications. In industrial applications running near WOT most of their life they typically last over 10,000 hours, the first to wear is usually the camshaft. The 7.3 is an alright engine, but the bottom end isn't as robust, and the fuel injection setup is inefficient and nowhere near as reliable as the CP3 common rail setup in the newer ISB. The CP3 is as reliable as the legendary P7100 powering the 12 valve.
The '05 Cummins was an odd year, it had some of the most failures of the common rail Cummins engines, but they were still once in a blue moon and less often than the 7.3. The injectors were not perfected yet, they still had a few failures due to poor filtration, hence why the '05 you listed has an aftermarket filtration system. '03-'04 engines had 2 injection events, '04.5-'05 had 3 injection events, '06 to '07 had 5 or 6 injection events. The '06 to '07 fuel injectors are the most robust.

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Thanks. Thoughts on the 07 6.0?

tydaddy said:

Thanks. Thoughts on the 07 6.0?

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'07 6.0 Powerstroke? It's still not a common rail, and that engine design is cursed. A modified 6.0 will run circles around my slow spooling 12 valve Cummins, but the name is scarred for life. Supposedly most of the reliability issues were fixed by '07, but they won't hold their value. Even with the head issues fixed, it still has EGR issues. That's one of the main advantages of the Cummins is they didn't need EGR until '07.5. I assume that's due to the use of a modern common rail fuel setup, or they pulled a VW.

Even if reliability was identical between the two, the 5.9 ISB is super easy to work on. If anything engine related happened on the 5.9 when you were towing, you could fix just about anything on the side of the road. The 6.0 takes the better part of a weekend to work on.

If you really like the Ford trucks, I would suggest sticking with the V10 gas engines. They're thirsty, but they're cheap, powerful, and pretty reliable. It's basically the 5.4 with two extra cylinders.

The 07 I posted above has been "bulletproofed". Egr removed. New head gasket. Studs. Remilled heads. Etc. Seems like once the bugs are worked out, they're reliable.

I don't hate the cummins. Every one I find is a rust ball!! Lol.

I could get the one above for 12k.

As for the gas idea, I've thought about it, just looking towards a 5th wheel 12k+. I'm sure the v10 would be a dog.

I would stay away from any 6.0 or 6.4 powerstrokes, truth is they are just money pits. The 7.3 ford would probably be the best bet followed by the dodge. Problem with dodge is great engine but the platform leaves a bit to be desired.

I personally would go with the 7.3, engine is bulletproof, platform is old school but decent. Solid axles front and rear makes for a serious truck. Only problem with them is rust, the bed supports, wheel well arches, and floors are common problem areas.

For me the 02 7.3 is most appealing. Navistar engine is proven for durability. Wear components have been replaced. It's not difficult to work on either.

turbocharged798 said:

I would stay away from any 6.0 or 6.4 powerstrokes, truth is they are just money pits. The 7.3 ford would probably be the best bet followed by the dodge. Problem with dodge is great engine but the platform leaves a bit to be desired.

I personally would go with the 7.3, engine is bulletproof, platform is old school but decent. Solid axles front and rear makes for a serious truck. Only problem with them is rust, the bed supports, wheel well arches, and floors are common problem areas.

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Thanks. I trust opinions in this forum more than any others. Appreciate the feedback.

Oberkanone said:

For me the 02 7.3 is most appealing. Navistar engine is proven for durability. Wear components have been replaced. It's not difficult to work on either.

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That was my first inclination. The 07 is prettier. Lol. Pretty sure the 02 is the better value. I can probably get the 02 for 7500.

Just make sure to carry a spare cam position sensor and familiarize yourself with the high pressure oil pump and the fuel injection system. The cps on the 7.3 has been problematic, it doesn't help that the engine cannot rely off a crank sensors when it bites the dust. There's also a few small things in the fuel system that have been known to take a dive and leave people on the side of the road. They're not hard to fix if you're familiar with the engine, but it's those small things that keeps the 7.3 labeled as a good engine instead of being trusted for industrial use.

It is an industrial engine, called a T444E. Used in school buses, dump trucks, ect.

Not arguing that the cummins is a better engine, just the platform that it comes in leaves a lot to be desired.

In terms of the interior, the Ford runs circles around the Dodge. But the rest of the driveline was more similar than different during the '90s and '00s. For a while they both had a Dana 60 in the front and a Dana 80 in the rear. Outside of one NV4500 failure, mine has been holding 525 HP and 1,180 lb-tell of torque since 2009. It sees the end of the tach a dozen times a day.

My buddy's '96 lasted him over 1.1 million miles towing 25-35k pound trailers a couple times a week from Indiana to Florida, then sled pulled on the weekends. His only burnt one NV4500 on account of a few too many 5th gear launches. His fiance forced him to get something quieter, so he's been riding a 3rd gen common rail which has a beefier AAM 11.5.

The Ford and Ram platforms are more than strong enough, it's the GM trucks that abandoned the solid front. At the end of the day, it comes down to preference. The Ford has a tougher body in the '90s and doesn't rust as bad as the Ram. The Ram's body in the '00s holds up very well to rust, but the interior was cheaped out by the higher-ups in Mercedes. My buddy is actually admiring the Ford interior and critter comforts and is considering jumping ship, but he will only touch the V10.

More than a few guys have put cummins engines into Ford trucks to get the best of both worlds. Around here, any of the diesel options are likely to outlast the rest of the truck by a fair margin. I would look for one as stock as possible(excepting the 6.0).

crazyrunner33 said:

In terms of the interior, the Ford runs circles around the Dodge. But the rest of the driveline was more similar than different during the '90s and '00s. For a while they both had a Dana 60 in the front and a Dana 80 in the rear. Outside of one NV4500 failure, mine has been holding 525 HP and 1,180 lb-tell of torque since 2009. It sees the end of the tach a dozen times a day.
My buddy's '96 lasted him over 1.1 million miles towing 25-35k pound trailers a couple times a week from Indiana to Florida, then sled pulled on the weekends. His only burnt one NV4500 on account of a few too many 5th gear launches. His fiance forced him to get something quieter, so he's been riding a 3rd gen common rail which has a beefier AAM 11.5.
The Ford and Ram platforms are more than strong enough, it's the GM trucks that abandoned the solid front. At the end of the day, it comes down to preference. The Ford has a tougher body in the '90s and doesn't rust as bad as the Ram. The Ram's body in the '00s holds up very well to rust, but the interior was cheaped out by the higher-ups in Mercedes. My buddy is actually admiring the Ford interior and critter comforts and is considering jumping ship, but he will only touch the V10.

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Seems to be in line w everything I've read. I wouldn't hate a v10 if I could find one significantly cheaper than the diesels I've been finding.

tydaddy said:

Seems to be in line w everything I've read. I wouldn't hate a v10 if I could find one significantly cheaper than the diesels I've been finding.

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The V10 might be a better deal when buying new, supposedly the new 6.2 gasser is also pretty hot. When unloaded they get close to the fuel economy of the diesel trucks unloaded. I towed once with the V10 in the 5500. I didn't like it, it had enough power, but you just needed to rev it through the roof to make it up the hill and get 6-8 mpg. But man, the braking power of the 5500 was a delight.

Leaning towards the cummins right now. The guy with the 7.3 hasn't gotten back to me in about a week - maybe it's a sign?!

I drove the cummins the other night - she is a beast. The sound alone puts a grin on my face. Some seepage from the valve cover gasket, and apparently when the exhaust brake is used, there's a leak. Has an ATS 2 piece manifold already - thinking maybe just needs retorqued or a new gasket? Same for the valve cover, although apparently most leak.

I wouldn't worry about the exhaust leak unless if it's between the turbo and the manifold, or between the manifold and the head. I wouldn't trust that Smarty tuner with a gocart engine, I'd throw it for distance. The reason I say that is because the user presets give way for the user to crank the timing too high and spray outside the bowl, and even the ability to crank the rail pressure and crack an injector. The cheapest reman injector price is 350. EFILive from a reputable tuner is the way to go.

Things to look out for includes how quickly it starts. These older common rail trucks should start almost instantaneously, if it takes a while to crank, it's a sign that there's probably injector or lift pump issues. Check the oil level and smell it. Check the blow by and for any signs of oil consumption, there's an open CCV under the truck behind the front axle on the driver side. A truck with some serious blowby issues will have oil all over the undercarriage and even splattering up to the bumper. It's a 300k mile engine, it should have some blow by, but not too much. Check the air filter, if it's a K&N, that's a no go, the image below is why. Paper is the ultimate filter, but most Cummins guys opp for dry washable filters.

The valve cover gasket would raise a red flag for me. It's such a simple item to replace, why not take proper care and fix it, even doing so before selling?

Ask about the fuel filters and the lift pump. Then make sure to look over the suspension components, the brakes, ask when the last time the brake fluid was flushed, the power steering fluid, the transmission fluid, and the diff fluid. These trucks can and do last over a million miles, but so many people overlook the basics and kill them way too early.

I would also ask about the head, if any headwork was ever needed. These '05s will sometimes drop a valve seat. So pay attention to any misses the engine may have, listen for any pinging from the intake or exhaust, loud thumping sound coming from the intake, white smoke, or hard cranking. Ask if he or the previous owner ever adjusted the valve lash, I believe it's a 120k service interval. If he hasn't, I would offer to even adjust the valves for him, it's a very simple process and you'll be able to tell if there's any issues with the valves.



Edit: Saw that the truck already had the injectors replaced and it has an AFE intake, those should be fine. The fuel filtration was upgraded, probably as a result of the injectors. I think it's a good buy, just be mindful to check for valve issues I mentioned. And it sounds like he maintained the rest of the truck well, but I'd still ask about the diff fluid and transmission fluid. Fun fact, an S465 turbo with a bigger clutch and EFI and those injectors will take you north of 600 hp, people have made beyond 750 hp with that turbo, but it can support 550-600 hp and be very reliable.

7.3 but i'm biased