1997 B4V 1Z Grocery Getter Build

kooyajerms · Sep 22, 2011

i appreciate your humility to lump yourself with me Mike =)

To check the vac pot, do I take the rod off the actuator arm, and just see if I can push and pull the sucker?

Keebler145 · Sep 22, 2011

Hey I don't know anything! That's why I have my own thread started! I'll hopefully have my car making 17lbs of boost at 1,700 rpms before christmas

Yeah it's really simple just pop the rod off and give it a push down. It should have a good amount of resistance. If it does then I guess that narrows you down to arm length/tune which you already know the n75 map was fudged anyway thus this whole mess....

hatemi · Sep 22, 2011

I get 0.9bar at 1700rpm, almost 1.2bar at 1800rpm and over 1.6bar at 2000rpm. In sixth gear starting from 1400rpm or so. 2260vk, stock longitudal 130hp nozzles, reground cam and stock head. With stock VA it did make more pressure under 2000rpm but it wasn't actually any faster

Back to the topic. Is there any possibility that your turbo is somehow defect? Even with stock VNT mapping you should have no problem getting it to spool if the actuator and stop are even in the ballpark. And to me it seems that you have fiddled with them enough.

Scott02 · Sep 22, 2011

Keebler145 said:
Well, even then. If you consider Scott02's with a 2256v he is making 17lbs of boost at 1700rpms and 22-24 by 2,000 IIRC.

Not to threadjack, but this is what I really said...

Scott02 said:
... my gt2256v, I can make 15psi going up a big hill in 5th at 1700rpms with no issue. 17psi-ish around 2000rpm. And 18psi at around 2200rpm.

I still think i need to crank the actuator rod a tad shorter, and still the first rev of the program (I should REALLY finish this thing!).
I've never touched the stop screw. Nor have i checked EMP.

Keebler145 · Sep 22, 2011

sorry Scott, wasn't trying to be a liar. I guess I should have just went and quoted you directly

O.C.TDI · Sep 22, 2011

(snickers in the corner)

My "More Different" comment was based on Scott's numbers. The next difference is that I don't need to be in 5th or on a hill to attain those numbers. I am able to make requested boost in gears 2-6 on the flat and even.

I have driven cars with the old VNT and I will tell you there is a difference, and it is noticeable. I still feel my car drives and boosts like it has a 17/22.

I am not here to whore the GTB on you. Just providing info.

Keebler145 · Sep 22, 2011

I really am sorry, clearly me working late shifts and classes I should have quoted instead of running it through the top of my head!

Wasn't trying to start an argument my apologies! Even still I'm not making quite the boost Scott is and Jeremy's isn't as responsive as it was when whitbread had it.

Just trying to figure out what changed so much in that little bit of time?

kooyajerms · Sep 22, 2011

Had a slight amount of time to do some WOT. Spike is 35psi, but the emp is rising freakin fast from that point to 50-60psi. Like seconds. I don't think shortening the rod is going to help at this point, going to reduce that overboost in the tune, and see if that fixes the emp rising. I will also put a vac gauge on and try to record it inside the cabin, no way will I be able to watch all 3 of these gauges.

Power sure is strong though up high lol... while I pull my hair.

Whitbread · Sep 22, 2011

kooyajerms said:
Had a slight amount of time to do some WOT. Spike is 35psi, but the emp is rising freakin fast from that point to 50-60psi. Like seconds. I don't think shortening the rod is going to help at this point, going to reduce that overboost in the tune, and see if that fixes the emp rising. I will also put a vac gauge on and try to record it inside the cabin, no way will I be able to watch all 3 of these gauges.

Power sure is strong though up high lol... while I pull my hair.

If emp's are getting that high, you need to lengthen the actuator rod, not shorten it. Making the rod longer opens the vanes more for any given actuator position. Shortening it closes the vanes more for any given actuator position.

kooyajerms · Sep 22, 2011

Oh yeah I know Matt, we had shortened it in hopes of getting to 80%, and we talked about shortening it again because the logs showed 50% still. It was just me mentioning a previous idea.

I am not shortening that ho, don't worry =)

Anyone got ideas of what I should be seeing in vacuum while running through the gears and WOT?

O.C.TDI · Sep 22, 2011

I second lengthening the rod. I would go back to around 4" start. You are risking your turbo with it that tight.

Have you put the check valve in yet?

Something I haven't seen much mention of. What are your EGT's doing when you hit 45+ EMP?

kooyajerms · Sep 22, 2011

I'll put the rod back to where we were 4".

Check valve in, not seeing any difference till someone tells me what I should be seeing in the vacuum numbers.

EGT's are super low, hit 1130*F on the EGT spike and will go up to 1240*F when it was rising back up to the 55psi EMP
EGT's haven't gone more than 1350*F since the R520's were redone to stock flow settings, but I also haven't been doing too much WOT logs.

O.C.TDI · Sep 22, 2011

Think of the vacuum values as a direct visual of the duty cycle. If you are currently starting to move at 2" vac and maxing out at 18" vac then 2"= vanes all the way open, 10"= approx 50% closed and 18"=closed.

If you run the graph function of the channel 11 log you will be able to see the correlation between the two. Of course this is best done with two people. On occasion I have been know to drive around with the boost log graph running on the seat. Not necessarily to log but to be able to glance over and see what the ECU is asking for and what it is doing real time while referencing the mechanical gauges. Doing this in all driving conditions will help especially once you get to the fine tuning stage.

temporaptor · Oct 3, 2011

I was lucky enough to drive this beast! All I can say is WOW! I am very impressed and it isn't 100% done yet. this thing is the ultimate sleeper.........cant wait till all the kinks are worked out.

Digital Corpus · Nov 18, 2011

Jeremy!!! You sent us an email with pics! Update your thread with the pics!

Faster

!

kooyajerms · Nov 18, 2011

tdiclub server killing the quality of my shoe pictures so instead...

Here are some tuning vids we have been working on. Always watch smoke videos in HD. Double camera is a godsend, it makes communicating what's going on so much easier. I planned on making a spectacular update, but next time.

Partial Throttle video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP-y44ZyCU8
Tuning video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYgNknLhtZE

WOT video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i7KVoXQJwk

I wasn't planning on updating till the dyno, but postponed. Again.
Waiting on my ISSPRO Performax gauges, then I can tell if I'm hitting 30.5psi or if its 34psi on wot (even though vagcom says otherwise) Dumb ol vdo gauge.

BTW Keebler, 4bar did fix everything, Temporaptor was right.

temporaptor · Nov 18, 2011

I knew I was right with the 4 Bar !

foxracer1 · Nov 18, 2011

double camera views is awesome!

Rub87 · Nov 18, 2011

And dyno curves once the liftpump, case press valve is fixed

kooyajerms · Nov 18, 2011

I knew you'd mention that.

Fuel Labs is saying I'm having a low voltage issue that is causing the board to go bad. Any ideas anyone, or maybe just a function of diesel cranking + vw electrical?

Anything someone want to throw out I could test?

We are using 14gauge wire right now, but they want me to change it all to 10gauge... seems a bit overkill, but I can try that.

temporaptor · Nov 18, 2011

I have some spare 4 gauge wire we could run to fix the problem. Anything with the number 4 in-front of it will solve the problem, Just like the 4 Bar MAP.

loudspl · Nov 18, 2011

What is the voltage drop measured at the pump vs. measured at battery with the existing wiring?

The pump manual does reference an 8 to 18v operating range but their certification paper I got with my pump has current draw measured at no more than ~10A peak running at max speed. Reduced speed mode has it drawing a max of just 3A. Both are measured at 13.5v

I don't see how that pump with a low current draw could be ruining the board
Their install stuff says 12-14ga wire for hot and ground from the power relay to the pump. 10ga shouldn't be necessary but if you get it cheap/free maybe give it a shot

kooyajerms · Nov 18, 2011

I'm gonna ask him again considering 3A draw, and 10ga wire just doesn't make sense. And if the manual says 12-14ga, well that's what we did =p I'd rather not change all the wiring Matt did anyways.

thanks for responding to that.

loudspl · Nov 18, 2011

no prob.

also interesting to know....the pump can be wired with the existing resistor link position (in continuous reduced mode, yellow lug and black lug connected) and a single throw switch on the yellow lug inline with the ignition for reduced speed when "off" and max speed when "on" although I'm not sure if we can even make use of that much flow or if it would be excessive for the pump inlet

it can also be wired to the ECU to vary the speed and flow rate continuously based on a pulsed signal dwell time. I guess you feed it some kind of PWM signal and the thing will toggle between "off", "reduced", and "max"
No idea how to do that one though

kooyajerms · Nov 18, 2011

New shoes.

Porsche 7 slots take some serious adapters to get them to sit fairly flush. 12-15 more mm would be best on the rear, but I already feel like I'm pushing it. Sorry purists but I just love these wheels. Going to get the Koni Reds adjusted and Neuspeed 1.25" and 1.0" drop springs. I'll get bigger tires next time also. Need a bit extra form sometimes

30mm in the front 40mm in the rear, these guys are B I G. (I was running 25mm all around before with the mini wheels)

IndigoBlueWagon · Nov 19, 2011

B4s are notoriously poke deprived. I ran 20mm spacers on the rear of mine with stock offset wheels and it could have used more.

PRA4WX · Nov 19, 2011

Looks good!

Thanks for posting the videos too!

VWBeamer · Nov 20, 2011

Nice.

TDIMeister · Nov 20, 2011

How heavy is each spacer? Each wheel?

kiva822 · Nov 20, 2011

Great looking car, jeremy. Bummer I'm going to miss seeing it in person.

The *ultimate* sleeper....

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