Fun build just need to pick a turbo.

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miatamike203

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So ive been looking at all the turbo options for my car. I've always been the person to not just do what everyone else does. So with that being said i have been looking at a few different turbos to choose from most of witch i never seen on a tdi. I plan on building my own manifold and downpipe so im not worried about that cost.

So ive been looking at the bw S200sx s246 turbo, some of the factory MHI turbo and some other factory turbos like the cobalt ss BW turbo. Im thinking twin scroll external gate.

Im not looking to make a drag monster, i do occasionally hit the road courses with NASA north east, havent taken the tdi just the miata. I wanna build it more for the fun of it , i do however have a goal. I want to limit myself to a hp/tq that won't require me to build the motor other then arp head studs.

Let me know what you guys think.
 
mrchill

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If you are not dragging...then use a small to medium vnt. However, if you are stuck on a wastegate turbo, the small EFR is the way to go.
 
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miatamike203

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mrchill said:
If you are not dragging...then use a small to medium vnt. However, if you are stuck on a wastegate turbo, the small EFR is the way to go.
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Ive been thinking of the EFR only reason i was looking at the s246 is to help keep egt down for the times i do take her to the track. The other turbos i was looking at are smaller like the TD04, TD05 and the cobalt ss is a K04 thats a twin scroll turbo. I really think the twin scroll K04 would be a fun turbo just need to find one.
 
turbocharged798

turbocharged798

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You are really better off with VNT, there is a reason they are used the most. Wastegate turbos are going to lag like crazy.
 
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miatamike203

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Have you guys ever heard of the quick spool valve? I wouldn't pay the price there asking for them as i could make one. Im thinking of trying that on a turbo that flows 25-35lb min.
 
4

[486]

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all it does is halves the volute size when closed
sort of a very basic two position VNT

I'd like to play with one, but I'm too invested into the current garbage I'm doing.
Generally people seem to run into surge issues. Diesels don't breathe well, so you need to run high pressure ratios to get the mass flow. Guys also run into it with bad VNT control, request too much boost too low in the revs and the compressor can't handle the PR at low mass flow. The small volute puts too much energy into the turbine at a lower mass flow than the compressor is capable of putting back into the air on the intake side (at the low mass flow).

Be mindful of that, and it should do you well.
 
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miatamike203

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[486] said:
all it does is halves the volute size when closed
sort of a very basic two position VNT

I'd like to play with one, but I'm too invested into the current garbage I'm doing.
Generally people seem to run into surge issues. Diesels don't breathe well, so you need to run high pressure ratios to get the mass flow. Guys also run into it with bad VNT control, request too much boost too low in the revs and the compressor can't handle the PR at low mass flow. The small volute puts too much energy into the turbine at a lower mass flow than the compressor is capable of putting back into the air on the intake side (at the low mass flow).

Be mindful of that, and it should do you well.
Click to expand...
You just gave me a great idea, i wonder if i can use the quick spool valve to control the boost like the vanes do on the stock turbo. The turbo would have to be sized just right but i dont see why not. Still might need the wasteagte just for safety.


Or


I could run a wastegate but make the QSV work off the factory equipment so that i know im not going run into pressure ratio issues. So that i could dynamically control it instead of needing boost to control the valve.
 
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nitec

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nothing wrong with a wg turbo at half the price of a vnt...find the right size for your desired performance and you're golden...sure you give away the benefit of a vnt but it's so simple and easy to deal with...then when you're ready for more fun you just add another one on top of it and chug along :)
 
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miatamike203

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Well this is going to be a winter project i have a spare motor to use for mock up. Going to start ordering parts soon. So what are the limits of the stock block if i put arp head studs in?
 
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Exenos

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-It seems that the general consensus is 180-200 on a stock block. Its high torque and high revs are what kills these things, not hp.
 
andy2

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miatamike203 said:
Have you guys ever heard of the quick spool valve? I wouldn't pay the price there asking for them as i could make one. Im thinking of trying that on a turbo that flows 25-35lb min.
Click to expand...
I'm currently installing an SP quick spool valve on my 6bt cummins.It's a t3 spool valve and I will be using an HX35/40 turbo with it.The turbo has a 12cm wastegated housing and a 58mm compressor inducer.I'll soon know how it works out and if it's a worthwhile option.So far it makes the turbo sound like a VGT/VNT at idle so I have faith that it will work well.The actuator on the valve starts to open around 5psi and is fully open at approx 12 psi.I had to remove part of the exh manifold divider in order to let this valve function as necessary.
 
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miatamike203

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andy2 said:
I'm currently installing an SP quick spool valve on my 6bt cummins.It's a t3 spool valve and I will be using an HX35/40 turbo with it.The turbo has a 12cm wastegated housing and a 58mm compressor inducer.I'll soon know how it works out and if it's a worthwhile option.So far it makes the turbo sound like a VGT/VNT at idle so I have faith that it will work well.The actuator on the valve starts to open around 5psi and is fully open at approx 12 psi.I had to remove part of the exh manifold divider in order to let this valve function as necessary.
Click to expand...
I cant wait for the feedback, im also wondering if the N63 bmw turbo will be a nice fit. Its a vacuum operated wastegate turbo so controlling it can be done with all the stock parts.
 
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miatamike203

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So i got a deal on a garrett MGT2256GS, its the factory turbo off the BMW N63 engine. It uses vacuum to run the wastegate and is ball bearing. The turbo package is small so it should be easy to make a good flowing manifold and downpipe for it without having any clearance problems. The inlet and outlet is v band too also the outlet of the turbo is massive too i think its close to 2.5-4". It has an electronic turbo bypass on it that im wondering if i could use to help keep the turbo from surging if it does. Im thinking i could have a turner reprogram the egr out put from the ecu to tun the bypass. Ill take photos of it once it gets here.
 
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Rub87

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sounds nice although the electric BOV's usually are all or nothing, so not able to modulate. so when u open it all boost is gone
 
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[486]

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miatamike203 said:
Lol either way i will, i dont see why not but who knows.
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I looked into it a little bit just trying to get a signal from it when injected quantity is zero.
Couldn't find anything. Sorta kinda gave up on the compression release brake I'd put 30 hours of machining time into. It's still in a drawer but backburnered so deep that I dunno when I'll work on it again.

Now, twice in the last month others have mentioned similar stuff in reference to the EGR wires as though it is something that can be (or has been) done.
Call it "flippant but genuinely interested"
 
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Machineman

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I run a td04l 13t 5.5 cm with a custom non gated turbine peaks 37psi very responsive turbo for a non vnt makes 22 psi at just over 2000rpm its my back up turbo for when i blow my vnt turbos
 
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miatamike203

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[486] said:
I looked into it a little bit just trying to get a signal from it when injected quantity is zero.
Couldn't find anything. Sorta kinda gave up on the compression release brake I'd put 30 hours of machining time into. It's still in a drawer but backburnered so deep that I dunno when I'll work on it again.
Now, twice in the last month others have mentioned similar stuff in reference to the EGR wires as though it is something that can be (or has been) done.
Call it "flippant but genuinely interested"
Click to expand...
I had a feeling you weren't being sarcastic but i couldn't help myself. I do however have another way to run the turbo recirculation valve though. I'll explain later today.
 
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miatamike203

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So i believe i could you the gas pedal as a way to open and close the recirculation valve . I would have to measure what the pedal outputs and have one of the electrical engineers at work build a circuit that would let me program when to open and when to close it. I believe this is how the electric diesel BOV kits work to begin with.
 
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That´s a pity you didn´t choose s246 instead of this tiny bmw turbo. You would been seen waaaaaayyyy more better numbers with BW so fun factor of this built is gone for me ;)

Exenos said:
-It seems that the general consensus is 180-200 on a stock block. Its high torque and high revs are what kills these things.
Click to expand...
That´s quite much of BS there.
 
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Exenos

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p0wer said:
That´s a pity you didn´t choose s246 instead of this tiny bmw turbo. You would been seen waaaaaayyyy more better numbers with BW so fun factor of this built is gone for me ;)



That´s quite much of BS there.
Click to expand...

Where? Don't call BS without saying why. 6k tunes are known to cause issues on stock bottom ends and the same goes for high torque at low rpms. Throw a set of good rods in and both of those become non issues.
 
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