Shifting into 1st gear; clutch issue?

Hi,

I just bought a used 2006 TDI w. manual from a dealer who took it in on trade. The car has about 77,000 miles on it. I find that it is very different from my 1998 TDI Jetta also with a manual.

After driving it a few hundred miles, I find that when shifting into first gear, I am experiencing a significant vibration and shuddering and sometimes stall if I come out of the gear too quickly.

I took it back to the dealer and he said this is normal for a diesel and that I was not revving the engine high enough when going into gear. He also added that I was lugging the engine and this was the source of the vibration that I was experiencing and that I should be shifting into gear at around 1500 rpm.

Fair enough, I have consciously looked to see the rpms that I am shifting at and I still experience a good deal of vibration and choppiness at 1500 rpms. My 1998 TDI does not do this.

Do I really not know how to drive a diesel as the dealer suggests or could this be a sign of clutch problems to come (what it really feels like)?

Any guidance would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

I'm no expert, but shifts at 1,500 rpm should be fine. I try to shift at a bit higher revs than that ~ 2,000. The signs of a clutch needing replacement are usually difficulty getting the car into gear, slippage (try flooring it in gear to see if the engine freewheels), or chattering.

Otherwise the clutch may need adjustment, but I'm unfamilliar with whether these clutches are adjustable.

At least on the mkIV =, ALH's the general thought is that you should shift no lower than 2,200-2,500 and upward of 3k when really.

Lugging the engine.. driving below 2k is hard on the engine and turbo.

When you shift, what are the new RPM's in the gear.

If you take the engine to 3k to shift how does it feel? and does it go past 3k smoothly? Give the car some good hard drive, rev it well over 3k and see if it helps, maybe pull it to redline. Also try not to stomp it below 2k, its hard on the engine and turbo.

A common issue is people never really having the turbo open all the way, ie the they never drive it hard, and as a result carbon builds.. which is bad.

joe4str said:

Hi,
I just bought a used 2006 TDI w. manual from a dealer who took it in on trade. The car has about 77,000 miles on it. I find that it is very different from my 1998 TDI Jetta also with a manual.
After driving it a few hundred miles, I find that when shifting into first gear, I am experiencing a significant vibration and shuddering and sometimes stall if I come out of the gear too quickly.
I took it back to the dealer and he said this is normal for a diesel and that I was not revving the engine high enough when going into gear. He also added that I was lugging the engine and this was the source of the vibration that I was experiencing and that I should be shifting into gear at around 1500 rpm.
Fair enough, I have consciously looked to see the rpms that I am shifting at and I still experience a good deal of vibration and choppiness at 1500 rpms. My 1998 TDI does not do this.
Do I really not know how to drive a diesel as the dealer suggests or could this be a sign of clutch problems to come (what it really feels like)?
Any guidance would be much appreciated.
Thanks.

Click to expand...

Dealer is full of crap. You should be able to start out in first at IDLE SPEED with no "gas" pedal at all. That is how the VE pump mark 3's and 4's behave. If the later model can't do the same with more hp and torque available, the design is junk.

Running below 2000 rpm in first is NOT LUGGING, guys. The O1M automatic will hold 3rd gear at modest torque with the torque converter fully locked up at 1400 rpm and even below. In fact it will even do that in 4th. So the VW engineers do not have the same concept of lugging as your dealer.

Most likely your DMF is giving up the ghost.

joe4str said:

Hi,

I just bought a used 2006 TDI w. manual from a dealer who took it in on trade. The car has about 77,000 miles on it. I find that it is very different from my 1998 TDI Jetta also with a manual.

After driving it a few hundred miles, I find that when shifting into first gear, I am experiencing a significant vibration and shuddering and sometimes stall if I come out of the gear too quickly.

I took it back to the dealer and he said this is normal for a diesel and that I was not revving the engine high enough when going into gear. He also added that I was lugging the engine and this was the source of the vibration that I was experiencing and that I should be shifting into gear at around 1500 rpm.

Fair enough, I have consciously looked to see the rpms that I am shifting at and I still experience a good deal of vibration and choppiness at 1500 rpms. My 1998 TDI does not do this.

Do I really not know how to drive a diesel as the dealer suggests or could this be a sign of clutch problems to come (what it really feels like)?

Any guidance would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

When you say shifting INTO 1st gear, do you mean at a dead stop or when rolling to a stop? Either way, you should be able to shift INTO 1st gear without having to rev the engine.

Or am I misreading this and you're upshifting when at only 1500RPM in 1st?

Pull the maint records and see if the clutch has been done, the DMF OEM has problems and may need replacement, common problem on the 06's..Do you hear any rattling?

Thank you all.

To clarify, I am only talking about starting at a dead stop and shifting into first gear. Yes, I do find that revving the engine going into first eliminates some of the vibration and chatter/shudder but it increases the chance of a stall and isn't the safest approach in heavy traffic.

I thought the dealer was a bit condescending when he said that revving to 1500 was the proper way to drive a diesel... Again, my A3 doesn't behave like this.

Thanks for any and all input.

fnj2 said:

Running below 2000 rpm in first is NOT LUGGING, guys. The O1M automatic will hold 3rd gear at modest torque with the torque converter fully locked up at 1400 rpm and even below. In fact it will even do that in 4th. So the VW engineers do not have the same concept of lugging as your dealer.

Click to expand...

The rule with the manuals on this forum seem to dictate 2,000 RPM or above for shift points. As far as the auto goes I wouldn't know as I don't drive them but I think the auto and the manual are a bit more different in the lugging department. Perhaps I'm wrong but my car really hates running under 2,000 RPM pretty much all the time and it is in top shape mechanically.

joe4str said:

To clarify, I am only talking about starting at a dead stop and shifting into first gear. Yes, I do find that revving the engine going into first eliminates some of the vibration and chatter/shudder but it increases the chance of a stall and isn't the safest approach in heavy traffic.

Click to expand...

Revving the engine increases the chances of stalling? Something doesn't make sense here.

Yeah, it may just be that I'm letting the clutch out too fast when revving that high, particularly when I'm on a hill.

procupine14 said:

The rule with the manuals on this forum seem to dictate 2,000 RPM or above for shift points. As far as the auto goes I wouldn't know as I don't drive them but I think the auto and the manual are a bit more different in the lugging department. Perhaps I'm wrong but my car really hates running under 2,000 RPM pretty much all the time and it is in top shape mechanically.

Click to expand...

Bottom line is O.P. is talking about revs required to launch from a stop in 1st gear. If it takes 1500 rpm, let alone 2000 rpm, to launch without drama, something is very wrong.

fnj2 and Mach1 have my vote: dying DMF. Seems like a bad clutch, but it is really the flywheel that is grenading on you.

And don't take it back to that dealer. Whether you deserve it or not, a condescending attitude shouldn't be received by a customer. And they need to get their facts straight. You can't change that, but you can take your business elsewhere.

How far are you from Richmond, ME or Braintree, MA?

re. Mach1: I don't hear any rattling and I contacted the original owner (left registration in manual). He said that he had noticed a "rough clutch let-out" going into first gear on cold damp mornings but never had the clutch replaced. So, as far as I know, this would be the OEM clutch.

The reason I was talking to the dealer about it was that I have a 3-month, 3 thousand mile warranty on the vehicle. I'm assuming it will be very tricky to get them to do anything about this issue, however.

I'm about 4 hours from Richmond, ME and just under three hours from Braintree, MA. I get down to Boston every now and then and could see someone in Braintree if that is what MajorDJQ is suggesting.

Thanks.

joe4str said:

I'm about 4 hours from Richmond, ME and just under three hours from Braintree, MA. I get down to Boston every now and then and could see someone in Braintree if that is what MajorDJQ is suggesting.

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HermTDI is in Richmond. I drove 4 hours each way to have him change the timing belt on my '02.

MrCHill is in Braintree. He did a clutch job on my '02.

Both are highly regarded TDI Gurus.

DMF is on the way out...causing shifting problems,and i bet an out-of-balance condition..

Needs to be done, I prefer the trusted guys myself(as I am one). The dealer will put in another defective DMF.

OK, thanks all.

I am wondering if there is any advantage to changing the timing belt at the same time the clutch is done in terms of labor savings? @80,000 miles I would think that I should be thinking about that piece of work as well.

Thanks for all advice.

joe4str said:

OK, thanks all.

I am wondering if there is any advantage to changing the timing belt at the same time the clutch is done in terms of labor savings? @80,000 miles I would think that I should be thinking about that piece of work as well.

Thanks for all advice.

Click to expand...

The clutch is on the opposite end of the engine as the timing belt, so unless the engine is being removed completely, I wouldn't think you'd save much time/labor.

I have been advised by a very good VW mech (VW master tech) that the noise and vibration in my 06 Jetta TDI (102K miles) is either the flywheel or a loose valve spring. He recomened having his thoughts confirmed by a dealer. The PD is not his speciality The noise / vibartion in 1st gear is accompanied by a puff of black smoke out of the exhaust pipe. I gotta belive its a valve problem. The mech replaced the serp belt ten and the alternator pulley.

My question is... could anybody suggest a good TDI mech to replace the valves in my TDI? I am willing to travel . I live in NC. SC is close, VA is close, TN is close. Any one ?

Thanks,
JD

Previously owned: 76 Scirooco, 78 Scirocco, 83 GTI, 88 GTI, 95 Jetta. And now, not too happy with the abused 06 Jetta TDI 5 speed (NOT a DMF) I bought 6 months ago

never mind... found a good TDI mech in NC....
JD