Dealers Will "One Year Lease" New 2015 TDi

At some point; dealers will be able to LEASE brand new 2015 TDi but for only one year. Source is General Manager of a large chain of dealerships.

1. The 2016 TDIs were never received certification from the EPA (VW withdrew the application), so VW would have to go through the whole certification process (with extra scrutiny from the EPA/CARB) to sell a relatively few cars that have been sitting for a year.
2. The negotiated settlement agreement allows VW to fix the '15s so that they meet a standard less strict than they were originally certified for. There's no doubt that any attempt to certify the '16s would require that they follow the letter of the law rather than the relaxed standard.

Gary Barnhill said:

Another weird anomaly: VW dealers can not resell a used 2009-2016 TDi but other dealers, Chevy, Ford etc and take a TDi in trade and legally resell it.

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I'm not sure what your source is (since you didn't link it), but the bolded text is most definitely incorrect--I bought a used 2013 TDI from a VW dealer just a few weeks ago (and another one a few months ago).

Oh, great!! VW dealers can sell used TDi

My "source" will remain unnamed but you might think of him/her as "deep throat" and there will never be a link for you to puruse. But thanks for the pejorative insinuation.

But I do appreciate you correcting the record and I will pass on to the General Manager of a larger VW dealership, which owns many dealerships nationwide, that he is misinformed about not being able to resell used TDi vehicles.

Congratulations on your purchase of a 2013 TDi. I love my 2013 Passat SE TDi and hate to part with it but when I turn it in the buyback is about $16,000 more than it's empirical value.

Most people have indicated they are selling but you are buying. Perhaps you could share your analysis of the TDi market. Many thanks in advance for your expertise.

This thread was intended to let fence-sitters and buy-backers know that new 2015 TDi will actually be available but it will now probably turn into nation wide survey of which dealers are or are not selling used TDi.

What has been stated over and over again in this situation (including by VWOA) is that VWOA is preventing dealers from selling CPO used TDI vehicles. They have specifically not be restricted from selling non CPO used . . . although a dealer may choose not to. None of this is backed by the power of law - as far as the EPA/CARB/etc. are concerned, there is no restriction on resale of any sort.

Details can be found on this site, if you want to be more informed - do some searches . . .

Gary Barnhill said:

My "source" will remain unnamed but you might think of him/her as "deep throat" and there will never be a link for you to puruse. But thanks for the pejorative insinuation.

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No insinuation whatsoever. Your post sounded like it was quoting from an article somewhere, but didn't identify where. But now you've clarified that your source prefers to remain anonymous. Fair enough.

But when your source says "VW dealers can't sell used TDIs", and I know that I've recently bought a used TDI from a VW dealer (and to be specific, on the off chance anyone cares: from VW/Audi of Hilton Head, on July 4), that doesn't help me see your source as very credible. Maybe my dealer never got the memo. Maybe they're ignoring it. Maybe your source is incorrect. Or possibly it's simply (as @tadawson suggested) that they can't sell them CPO'd, but normal used is just fine--and either you or your source left out that distinction.

Edit: But there are an awful damn lot of used TDIs listed by VW dealers. Here's one. Here's another one. And another one. And another one. Four different cars at four different dealers. I guess it's possible that they're all bogus listings, and the dealers won't or can't actually sell those cars, but it doesn't seem very likely. That pretty well excludes the possibility that my ability to buy the car was a fluke, or that there was something odd with my dealer; and tilts the probabilities toward either your source being simply incorrect, or he (or you) missing some critical detail.

Most people have indicated they are selling but you are buying. Perhaps you could share your analysis of the TDi market. Many thanks in advance for your expertise.

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It's pretty obvious, isn't

Dealers are allowed to sell USED TDI's.

They are NOT allowed to sell NEW or Certified Pre Owned TDI's.

Source: I work at a dealer.

Fixmy59bug said:

They are NOT allowed to sell NEW or Certified Pre Owned TDI's.

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I've seen this widely reported, and believe it to be the case. But I see a bunch of listings for new 2015 TDIs from VW dealers on AutoTrader too. One, two, three, four. Again, four different cars, four different dealers. In all, there are 199 listings for new VW diesels within a 200-mile radius of my home. I don't think I'm going to be in the market for a new TDI, but I am curious how this is happening.

Brand New 2015 TDi available for Lease Only

In case anyone missed the purpose of this original thread before it got hijacked into the status of buying and selling used TDi for profit: I will restate:

A General Manager of a large chain of dealerships says the brand new 2015 TDi setting on his back lot will at some point be available for a ONE YEAR LEASE.

So now I see that rather than admit you were wrong about selling used TDIs, you simply deleted most of the first post.

Gary Barnhill said:

In case anyone missed the purpose of this original thread before it got hijacked into the status of buying and selling used TDi for profit: I will restate:

A General Manager of a large chain of dealerships says the brand new 2015 TDi setting on his back lot will at some point be available for a ONE YEAR LEASE.

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The thread didn't get hijacked...it got injected with reality. 12 month leases, a bunch of AWD wagons being available later in '16, SUVs saving the day in 2017 (from your original post), etc. All of those "plans" are just that...plans. All of them are flawed in some way, shape, or form:


-No one really knows anything more at this point (where the new '15 TDI's are concerned) than they did last winter. I say this because a manager at my dealership said last November..."we'll be selling new TDI's by December 27th." It could be that your source ends up being correct. However, it's just as likely that this plan will never see the light of day.


-The AWD wagons being available in 2016 in large numbers. It's already August. I've not read one report about those cars rolling off the assembly line. Not one single report, beyond the initial "Ooh...look at our Subaru Outback fighter" news release.
-SUVs savings VW's bacon in 2017. We'll see if they can get them cranking out, get the price competitive to where it will sell, etc.

VW seems to periodically dump information to dealers to provide light at the end of the tunnel to dealerships...and for them to relay to customers to keep them from moving on and buying a vehicle elsewhere. I've lost track of how many times someone has posted up "inside" information about what's going to happen. It ALWAYS ends up being off.

You might completely believe what the manager told you...and they might completely believe the person that told them. However, that doesn't change the fact that the trend with this type of "news" point to the updates generally being erroneous.

I'll try one more time

475,000 American TDi owners have choices to make about the disposition of their TDi.

I thought knowing that some brand new 2015 TDi would be available for lease for those who want to get a new TDi might be helpful.

I deleted all other information for the purpose of staying on point and avoiding more nitpicking and hijacking.

I was not right or wrong about selling used TDi. I simply stated what a VW General Manager said. You indicated he was wrong. Maybe he failed to be lawyerly precise and state he was speaking of Certified Pre Owned.

At the end of my post I added a throw away line that the General Manager said he could not sell used TDi but non VW dealers could. True or not; that was not the purpose of sharing the 2015 lease information.

I would be grateful if instead of hijacking the post regarding 2015 TDi lease; you start your own thread regarding buying and selling used TDi in the current market.

Talk is cheap and plentiful on this forum. I will take up to ten bets for $1,000 each that 2015 TDi will become available for lease. If interested; your position is that 2015 TDi will not be available for lease.

Your $1,000 and my $1,000 for each bet must be held by a neutral party. I suggest the owner of this forum.

My name is on my post and I live in Corona del Mar, CA.

bubbagumpshrimp said:

Keep in mind...*when* a fix is approved (that hasn't happened yet)... the plans they have for the '15 TDIs' will be executed.
​

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Fixed it for you . . .

This is inevitable, almost zero reason to doubt it . . .

Gary Barnhill said:

475,000 American TDi owners have choices to make about the disposition of their TDi.

I thought knowing that some brand new 2015 TDi would be available for lease for those who want to get a new TDi might be helpful.

I deleted all other information for the purpose of staying on point and avoiding more nitpicking and hijacking.

I was not right or wrong about selling used TDi. I simply stated what a VW General Manager said. You indicated he was wrong. Maybe he failed to be lawyerly precise and state he was speaking of Certified Pre Owned.

At the end of my post I added a throw away line that the General Manager said he could not sell used TDi but non VW dealers could. True or not; that was not the purpose of sharing the 2015 lease information.

I would be grateful if instead of hijacking the post regarding 2015 TDi lease; you start your own thread regarding buying and selling used TDi in the current market.

Talk is cheap and plentiful on this forum. I will take up to ten bets for $1,000 each that 2015 TDi will become available for lease. If interested; your position is that 2015 TDi will not be available for lease.

Your $1,000 and my $1,000 for each bet must be held by a neutral party. I suggest the owner of this forum.

My name is on my post and I live in Corona del Mar, CA.

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About the only true statement is that a dealer can't sell a new 2015 . . .

Gary Barnhill said:

Your $1,000 and my $1,000 for each bet must be held by a neutral party. I suggest the owner of this forum.

My name is on my post and I live in Corona del Mar, CA.

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I can state unequivocally that the owner of this forum would not be interested in holding money for the purposes of this bet or any other bet.

Talk may be cheap and plentiful, but so is misinformation. Playing a big game of telephone and making statements that can be quickly refuted with readily available information doesn't do anybody any good.

With regard to a one-year lease on 2015s, that's just a rumor that you heard from a GM at a dealership. We have heard lots of rumors from higher level people in the past that have turned out to be nothing more than empty speculation or wishful thinking.

One would think that any new production (AWD wagons, for example) would have whatever fix is applied and be designated as 2017 model year cars to avoid the certification issues surrounding the '16s. True, they would have to meet a certain standard, but they would not reopen the original can of worms. And it's pretty late in the model year to call anything a '16 and sell it as a new car.

Gary Barnhill said:

475,000 American TDi owners have choices to make about the disposition of their TDi.
I thought knowing that some brand new 2015 TDi would be available for lease for those who want to get a new TDi might be helpful.
I deleted all other information for the purpose of staying on point and avoiding more nitpicking and hijacking.
I was not right or wrong about selling used TDi. I simply stated what a VW General Manager said. You indicated he was wrong. Maybe he failed to be lawyerly precise and state he was speaking of Certified Pre Owned.
At the end of my post I added a throw away line that the General Manager said he could not sell used TDi but non VW dealers could. True or not; that was not the purpose of sharing the 2015 lease information.
I would be grateful if instead of hijacking the post regarding 2015 TDi lease; you start your own thread regarding buying and selling used TDi in the current market.
Talk is cheap and plentiful on this forum. I will take up to ten bets for $1,000 each that 2015 TDi will become available for lease. If interested; your position is that 2015 TDi will not be available for lease.
Your $1,000 and my $1,000 for each bet must be held by a neutral party. I suggest the owner of this forum.
My name is on my post and I live in Corona del Mar, CA.

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Lol. You posted up a bunch of hearsay...deleted 90% of your post when people challenged you...and you're giving me the "talk is cheap..." put up or shut up speech? Lol. Carry on Chief.

You're welcome to believe what you want. I'm just pointing out that this isn't the first time that we've heard from a knowledgable inside source on what's going to happen in regards to matters that have yet to be decided.

Maybe YOUR DEALERSHIP doesn't but the VW dealer I deal with does

What happens here is the VW dealer owns several different dealerships and "transfers" the TDI to another brand dealer and sells it (used) not cpo.

Can any one tell me WHY!!! are Stealership now asking for a 2010 TDI jetta with 60,000 miles from $12,000 to $15,0000 yet want to give me $5,000 for mine with 45,000 miles on it .... Stealers in my area are not moving on price and want over retail like it was pre scandal prices all over again ... this really sucks !

Got diesel said:

Stealership now asking for a 2010 TDI jetta with 60,000 miles from $12,000 to $15,000

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That's right about the buyback price. Makes sense--if I know my buyer can turn around and sell the car for $14k (which a dealer who's paying attention should, but sadly this doesn't seem to describe many dealers), why would I sell the car for $10k or less?

Let's see:

First: NOTHING that come out of VW's "mouth" can be trusted, until the vehicle/offer is actually there, right in front of you. I can only fault dealership personnel for believing anything they hear without following that rule. We have all been burned too many times by announcements or heresay from VW that never panned out.

Second: If they do offer even a 1-year lease, that would be very enticing to me. I will have about a year until my commute goes from 12 miles to 60, each way. I'd like to see how the car does before committing to it, and I think one year is sufficient.

Third thing: VW dealers are not making any "deals" on the affected cars because VW will pay them for those cars. There is no reason for them to give up a nice profit, and I think VW corporate does not want to have to buy them back in a year or so. I am sure it will be easier for them to not have to track down an owner and deal with the extra paperwork or whatever. Besides, if the car is nice enough it will probably be modified and then resold. The dealer will have time to do the job without it being a customer's car. Much less liability for them on the learning curve.

GetMore said:

Third thing: VW dealers are not making any "deals" on the affected cars because VW will pay them for those cars. There is no reason for them to give up a nice profit, and I think VW corporate does not want to have to buy them back in a year or so. I am sure it will be easier for them to not have to track down an owner and deal with the extra paperwork or whatever. Besides, if the car is nice enough it will probably be modified and then resold. The dealer will have time to do the job without it being a customer's car. Much less liability for them on the learning curve.

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False.


Dealers are reserving 2015s for current TDI owners to reserve. This allows them to have cars ready to move in October and allows current owners to get a deal from the buyback. 2010 Jetta TDI getting $13,875, new car same options $26,500. Figure depreciation at $6k for new car and stay with VW incentive of a few thousand. (all speculation) New owners will make out well.

I reserved a 2015 with $200 deposit.

Page 19 Diesel Emissions Settlement

Quote from pg 19:

*Note: The parties anticipate that the generation 3 vehicles will require a two-dealer visit modification process.

The * denotes: (initial modification) End Quotes:

How does this relate to my GM saying his dozens of brand new, setting on back his lot, 2015 TDi will be available for ONE YEAR LEASE?

He said the plan is a minor bit of work is required for stage one and then the car can be leased for one year. VW takes back the car from the lessee and then has to perform the stage two work, which he says will require nine hours labor per vehicle.

Presumably, the 2015 TDi now fully meets the agreed on emissions standard and the off-lease cars can be sold by dealers.

We did not discuss how this works for present 2015 owners. Our discussion was only about brand new 2015 he has parked awaiting the final approval.

Gary Barnhill said:

In case anyone missed the purpose of this original thread before it got hijacked into the status of buying and selling used TDi for profit: I will restate:

A General Manager of a large chain of dealerships says the brand new 2015 TDi setting on his back lot will at some point be available for a ONE YEAR LEASE.

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It actually makes a lot of sense, here's why:

There is a deal undergoing final approval to approve a "fix" for model 2015 cars that were sold. Some of the details were that it would be a 2 step process, come in, get some initial work done (and get a check), then come back some time later to get the "fix" completed.

So why should dealer owned 2015's be any different? The one caveat could be that EPA insisted that some legal process make it certain that the cars would be brought back and fixed once the fix was ready (which has been hinted at being at least a year away, to allow for durability testing, etc.).

A 1 year lease would be one way of making sure that happened.

The Caveat

It appears to me: By offering a one year only lease; the dealer then becomes owner of the car after the year.

The EPA clearly has VW over a barrel so it's easy to see that VW will do the stage two (nine hours labor) fix before the car can be sold and return to public use.

Presumably after VW performs the stage two fix and the car is now in compliance the dealer can sell it.

That was my understanding from the conversation with the GM.

Gary Barnhill said:

It appears to me: By offering a one year only lease; the dealer then becomes owner of the car after the year.

The EPA clearly has VW over a barrel so it's easy to see that VW will do the stage two (nine hours labor) fix before the car can be sold and return to public use.

Presumably after VW performs the stage two fix and the car is now in compliance the dealer can sell it.

That was my understanding from the conversation with the GM.

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Leased cars are owned by the leasing company- not by the dealer leasing the cars. Example - GE Capital used to be a big player in the leasing game. At the end of the lease term, GE Capital disposed of the returned vehicles by the auction process to car dealers. Car dealers who were high bidders got the cars for resale. MOST car dealers do not have the cash on hand to buy their inventory, instead use a line of credit to pay for their retail inventory. That credit line is secured by the cars in their inventory.

The VW GM said something along the lines of: when we get them back after one year we have to complete the nine hour required fix of the emissions system.

John, are you a Navy/Marine aviator? I flew Huns and Thuds back in the day.

I would hate to do a 12month lease on a previous model year car that has lost a large amount of its resale value. That would be like a $1500 a month note lol


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Why? If a $30,000 car is now two years old it should now have a value of let's say $20,000. Lease it for a year, and it's value should be about $17,000.
A one year lease on a NEW car is expensive. This is an unused, but old car.
I know the valuation could go either way; they could want full price, or they could almost give it away. Assuming VW wants the cars to not just rot, and know people might be wary of what the economy will be and how the car would feel, this will get some real world info without locking owners into a bad car.
I would give it a try.