Reliable? (2013 Jetta SportWagen TDI DSG)

I keep reading that Volkswagen vehicles have a reputation of being unreliable.

Is that still the case? Or are the new ones likely better?
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It's like a baby falls very often!!!))

I'm confused. You have apparently gone ahead and purchased a 2013 JSW (based on your signature) and you're asking if they're still garbage?

Either way, I've had no problems in about 12000 miles in my DSG Jetta wagon.

I did have an injection pump fail at 111000 miles in my 2003 Jetta but my wife's 2000 Jetta TDI (about 185000 miles) has been pretty problem free aside from a failed A/C compressor back in 2005.

The new cars seem to have better build quality and of course are much quieter as well. Plus there's the crazy torque that induces grins all around when you press on the go pedal.

DSL HED said:

I'm confused. You have apparently gone ahead and purchased a 2013 JSW (based on your signature) and you're asking if they're still garbage?

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Sorta...

It seems with many brands, the reputation (good or bad) was established a while back and they're still having to live with it.

I get the impression a LOT of the opinions I read are made by people who aren't especially familiar with these particular vehicles. They're just making general statements.

Now that I'm part of the club, I was hoping to get the real story.

DSL HED said:

there's the crazy torque that induces grins all around when you press on the go pedal.

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I am pretty impressed with that. I'm coming from a 2005 Outback XT Limited 5MT -- 2.5L turbo / 250HP & 250 ft/lbs of torque.

The SportWagen is similarly fun to drive. The Outback is a lot faster -- if I do everything right -- right gear, right RPM -- but the SportWagen DSG does a pretty good job of figuring that out itself.

I was wishing for a faster 0-60 yesterday as I was trying to merge onto the highway as a Ford Flex was bearing down on me. In retrospect, maybe I should have tried Sport mode.

Michael Aos said:

I am pretty impressed with that. I'm coming from a 2005 Outback XT Limited 5MT -- 2.5L turbo / 250HP & 250 ft/lbs of torque.
The SportWagen is similarly fun to drive. The Outback is a lot faster -- if I do everything right -- right gear, right RPM -- but the SportWagen DSG does a pretty good job of figuring that out itself.
I was wishing for a faster 0-60 yesterday as I was trying to merge onto the highway as a Ford Flex was bearing down on me. In retrospect, maybe I should have tried Sport mode.

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If you want a fast diesel car get a BMW 335d. Take it from the man who owns one....they are rocket ships.

totitan said:

If you want a fast diesel car get a BMW 335d.

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Doesn't really have to be that fast -- my Outback XT will do 130mph, but I don't normally drive it that fast.

I was just looking for a turbo wagon with an automatic (so my wife can drive it sometimes too) for under $30K.

We had a 2011 Outback 2.5i Limited with the CVT and just didn't like it. I like the Outback 3.6R, but it's expensive w/leather and no turbo (not a deal breaker).

I would say you bought the most complex TDI to date, you can assertain if complexity is a positive or negative to long term reliability.


(BTW, I like the old stuff myself)

I bought it thinking I'd drive around 11K miles/yr and get rid of it around the 4yr mark.

Sounds like that's still a pretty good plan.
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I have 55K on the JSW and 20K on the Golf. No real issues with either one to date. There's the guy on here using the Jetta sedan as a taxi and has over 120K miles without anything other than standard maintainence.

Up to 22,000 without having to have anything fixed.

OH boy...can we go over this again....Lots and lots of threads on this....Most of us a VERY happy with our CR diesels....some(very few) are VERY unhappy......Whether it was due to bad luck or bad timing on filling their tank or occasional bad parts from a VW supplier(turbo or whatever) or just a stupid error filling up or something else.....NOBODY knows.....Drive more...Worry less.

Michael Aos said:

I bought it thinking I'd drive around 11K miles/yr and get rid of it around the 4yr mark.

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If I may ask why did you get this car just to get rid of it so quickly? 44,000 miles is nothing on them.

Yvettes Sherpa said:

why did you get this car just to get rid of it so quickly? 44,000 miles is nothing on them.

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I somewhat recently purchased a used 2005 Outback XT Limited w/5MT (5-speed manual). It had about 102K on it when I bought it.

I spent a bunch of money getting it fixed up (105K service - timing belt, idlers, pulleys, water pump, thermostat -- everything to "do it right"). Also new front rotors & brakes, nice tinting, HID low-beams & fog-lights. Misc.

It's great, except for the 5-speed. My wife doesn't drive it "right", and we both wind up stressed out over it.

When I was in search of an alternative wagon, I kind of stumbled across a used 2011 SportWagen TDI w/moonroof & ~36K miles. My initial research revealed all the complains about the HPFP, so I was inclined to look at a new vehicle (w/warranty) instead of the used one. Also the price of the new one without the moonroof wasn't that much more than the used, and I got a better interest-rate.

In retrospect, I maybe should have searched for a nice 2005 - 2009 Outback XT automatic, but they are getting up there in miles now and demand a premium price and have potential turbo failure issues also.

I was looking for a turbo wagon, under $30K, with a warranty so I don't suddenly have to spend ~$6K for a random turbo failure.

Yvettes Sherpa said:

\why did you get this car just to get rid of it so quickly? 44,000 miles is nothing on them.

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I've been switching vehicles a LOT more than I or (especially) wife would prefer over the last couple years.

Before that, I always kept vehicles "forever" and didn't worry at all about resale / residual value. I didn't see what all the fuss was about.

My seat-of-the-pants feel right now is that 4yrs / 44K miles would be a sweet spot to move to a different vehicle.
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I guess I'm more impressed with the power difference because I was most recently driving a 2002 Golf TDI. To me the JSW is like a rocket compared to the older engines. But I'm sure the BMW is even more impressive. And a gas Subaru probably isn't too bad either, until you have to fill it up. Those things appear to be very thirsty according to Fuelly.

If you want to own it for 4 years and dump it, it's not a horrible idea if you're really worried about the potential for expensive fuel system problems. By then the 7th generation car will be out and somewhat proven (or not). I have no idea how long I'll keep mine, but I'm enjoying it for now and would like to get at least 8-10 years out of it.

DSL HED said:

a gas Subaru probably isn't too bad either, until you have to fill it up. Those things appear to be very thirsty according to Fuelly.

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I'm showing $.183/mile on my 2005 Outback XT Limited -vs- $.108/mile so far in the SportWagen.

That's not even an entirely fair comparison yet, since the Outback has been mostly Interstate and the SportWagen has been mostly in-town.

I could have just skipped the SportWagen entirely and just started driving my truck everyday, but the $.241/mile is disconcerting.
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If you're only driving it 60K I'd say you've got nothing to worry about. These cars do have some well-documented but fairly rare issues with HPFPs and intercooler icing, but otherwise the issues that seem to crop up (EGR, Exhaust flap, DPF filter or DPF) will happen long after you've traded the car. All said, there really isn't enough of a sample of these cars with high miles on them yet to establish any patterns of long-term reliability. However, given their complexity and the issues with earlier cars that share some design elements (EGR on the '06 for example), I'd say they are going to be more expensive to maintain as they age than the rotary pump TDIs.

Just keep in mind, one thing, With the TDI Diesels, they don't seem to come into their own for mileage until after 60K miles on the clock from what I'm seeing around. The mileage will start to definetly improve by 10k miles, but until you reach 60k, you might not be getting the best you can squeeze out of these rides. The Engine is pretty solid, it is basically just the ancilary units like DPF and HPFP like mentioned above. Keep it maintained, use a good lubricity additive if you want, and break it in properly. Just keep track of what the dealer says and does... Keep the records, it helps with resale as well.

DSL HED said:

I guess I'm more impressed with the power difference because I was most recently driving a 2002 Golf TDI. To me the JSW is like a rocket compared to the older engines. But I'm sure the BMW is even more impressive. And a gas Subaru probably isn't too bad either, until you have to fill it up. Those things appear to be very thirsty according to Fuelly.

If you want to own it for 4 years and dump it, it's not a horrible idea if you're really worried about the potential for expensive fuel system problems. By then the 7th generation car will be out and somewhat proven (or not). I have no idea how long I'll keep mine, but I'm enjoying it for now and would like to get at least 8-10 years out of it.

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My 335d has 425 lbs ft of torque at 1750 rpm. It will go very fast, instantaneously with less effort than anything Ive ever driven. Sure my hemi roadrunner is faster for a quarter mile, but it lets you know about it and it sure as heck wont go 155

For what it's worth, Consumer Reports gave the '13 JSW high marks.

85Steve said:

use a good lubricity additive if you want, and break it in properly.

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I'm at about 725 miles so far.

Not sure if I should do an additive. I might be able to run B5 -- would that be better than an additive?

I haven't used the cruise control yet. Otherwise I've been driving pretty much as-normal.

According to many of the reports cited on other threads, the B5 should have more than enough lubricity.

kjclow said:

B5 should have more than enough lubricity.

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Is there a down side to B5?

I was down to around 1/4 tank, so I filled it up w/B5.

Would it be "better" to fill it more frequently when traveling? I was thinking it might help minimize the chance of getting a whole tank of bad fuel. But on the other had, it might increase the chance of getting some bad fuel.

Michael Aos said:

I keep reading that Volkswagen vehicles have a reputation of being unreliable.

Is that still the case? Or are the new ones likely better?
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You have FIVE vehicles and drive them all? That is hard to believe. May be you explained this earlier. To the topic. When you talk "Reputation" we are talking about public perception and many social factors. Go to all the car lists, J.D. Powers, Consumer Report, NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration), Insurance Institute for Highway Safety... on and on. Look at repair, customer satisfaction and reliability... Yes reputation, VW has a reputation as being less reliable or not having as high customer satisfaction as Lexus or Acura or Toyota....Ford as a brand. However I am happy so far. You also have to compare apples and apples.
Consumer Report "Best Car Brand Perception survey" for 2012 - Top 20: 1-Toyota, 2-Ford, 3-Honda, 4-Chevy, 5-Mercedes-Benz, 6-BMW, 7-Volvo, 8-Cadillac, 9-Lexus, 10-Tesla, 11-Smart, 12-Acura, 13-Audi, 14-Subaru, 15-Nissan, 16-GMC, 17-Dodge, 18-Buick, 19-Hyundai, 20-VW.




In general in my opinion German cars (Audi, BMW, Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, VW) cost more, so owners tend to be more demanding, so they are not as happy unless it is perfect. Another factor J.D. Power reports sees is the loyalty factor, which has a lot to do with scores. If you are loyal to the brand you may not complain, at least to some survey or research. BOTTOM LINE - The bar is so high in the automotive industry for reliability, that even if VW is not as reliable (actual or unfairly by "reputation"), they are still very reliable. I think VW can be a good value, but they did suffer some bad years. I think they have improved (as I perceive it). With that said Ford and Chevy are getting good ratings, as are Kia and Hyundai. As I said the bar is very high. As far as perception you can see some things that make no sense. Tesla is a $100,000 car that burst into flames. Hyundai has 10 year and 100,000 mile warranties and seem to be on par with the Japanese brands. Acura use to be at the top of the list year after year. So things change. I think VW will improve but the perception is hard to break, especially when they have a HPFP that can cause so much collateral damage and be so expensive to fix.

Michael Aos said:

Is there a down side to B5?
I was down to around 1/4 tank, so I filled it up w/B5.
Would it be "better" to fill it more frequently when traveling? I was thinking it might help minimize the chance of getting a whole tank of bad fuel. But on the other had, it might increase the chance of getting some bad fuel.

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Most of the reported issues with bio diesel happen at concentrations above 20%. Should be no real issues with B5 as long as you're buying it from a station with high turnover.

Claydon said:

For what it's worth, Consumer Reports gave the '13 JSW high marks.

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I'd like to read that CR article......(do you recall what month?)

TIA

ez

About to buy a JSW TDI; Similar Concerns

I've owned quite a few different cars in my years, none of them automatics except for a brief 2 year stint with an Acura MDX, which made me think I was a UPS brown truck driver every time I got behind the wheel, but I digress
The universe of cars that can be purchased in the USA with a stick shift is in a state of continual contraction, to the point where there is now basically no other wagon-shaped vehicle with at least a little bit of guts that one can buy with a manual transmission other than the JSW, in mid 2013. Yes, that's the choice. JSW TDI. Other potential choices in the segment (such as the Subaru Outback 4 cylinder) are disqualified by virtue of being gutless, or having no manual transmission version.
Price is certainly a factor in my choice, but I could afford to spend a lot more if there was a clearly superior vehicle out there in the segment, but if there is one I haven't been able to discover it.
I have owned German vehicles before, including 2 BMWs, and a Jetta sedan back in the 1980s. I have also owned 2 different Outbacks, an early Acura, and an early Lexus, not to mention a Toyota and a Honda. I've had various problems with some of these vehicles, and in fact my current vehicle, an Outback Turbo, needed to have its engine replaced after only 7000 miles, apparently due to an assembly error.
I've done a lot of research on this vehicle, the JSW, and my conclusion from reading through a lot of the material and posts available on the internet is that there are real problems with VW reliability, not just the well-publicized intercooler and high pressure fuel pump TDI-related problems, but quite a few other things. It is also my impression that VW of America has been less than forthcoming when dealing with their customers having reliability problems, and often trying to foist off the blame onto the customers to the extent that they were able to. Excellent examples of this would be how the unfortunate individuals with HPFP problems got treated early on in this particular disaster.
I can contrast what I have read of the HPFP problems, with what happened to me when my current Subaru lost its engine after only 7000 miles, only a little into its second year of ownership (3 years ago). Subaru towed the car 100 miles to the nearest dealership, assigned a case person to me who kept calling and trying to assist me in any way possible, profuse apologies all around, free loaner and rental cars, etc. etc. etc. There was never even the slightest suggestion that I had been in any way responsible for this problem. When it was all over and I got the outback back from the dealer, with the new engine, I got a follow up call from the case person. She asked me what was my favorite restaurant in the area, and then told me to take a friend there for dinner, and to send a copy of the bill to her at Subaru for reimbursement, to compensate me for my troubles.
Anyway, getting back to the JSW, my sense is that VW has earned its mediocre reputation in the reliability dept., and they have not helped things by their apparent attempts not to accept responsibility for poor quality control or other issues that are rightly their obligation to deal with. Nonetheless, as I stated above, I'm about to buy one of these JSW vehicles largely due to the lack of anything else meeting my criteria. I am inclined to minimize potential additional risks, by getting a fairly basic model without a sunroof or other options.
If anyone here thinks I have misread or misstated the record on these vehicles, and on VW in general, please let me have it with both barrels

I think VW turned the corner on reliability when the MkV came out. I bought a new Rabbit for my daughter in 2008. She now has just under 80,000 miles on it and has had zero malfunctions or problems of any type. I also bought a new JSW tdi a year ago and have no problems whatsoever, with 21,000 miles on it so far. I will admit that I pay attention to issues I read about and take a proactive approach to avoiding known issues. For example I add 1/4 oz/gal of optilube to the fuel in the tdi every time I fill up. I change the fluids on both cars per the vw maintenance schedule and make sure the products I use meet the vw spec. Simple stuff really, but it works for me.

totitan said:

I think VW turned the corner on reliability when the MkV came out.

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You do? I should have you talk to customers who call us with '05.5 and '06 Jetta TDIs with failed camshafts, busted throttle bodies, leaking EGR coolers, failed coolant hoses to heater cores, broken wires in the engine harness causing misfires, and broken door wires that cause windows to fail. Or turbos with actuators that aren't available as replacements. Or failed dual mass flywheels, both on manuals and DSGs. Some of these things happen in the first 50K, some around 100K, some later.

I think champignon has described the situation well, and I agree that there are few, if any, manual transmission wagons out there that aren't gutless or feel built to a price. VWs in general do require more maintenance than other brands, and the lousy dealer network, especially when it comes to TDIs, require that the owners get more involved with their cars maintenance. If you're willing to do that you'll have a long and happy ownership experience. If not, you probably won't.

My mother is a die-hard Subaru driver because (a) she won't drive an automatic; and (b) she likes the dealer. Her '11 Forester is OK, but it is seriously low powered and feels cheezy: she complains that the car heats up faster in the sun than any other she's owned. I think they've taken sound deadening and insulation out to save money: the doors certainly feel that way. And she had an engine failure in her '09 Impreza at 33K: similar experience to the champignon: loaner for several weeks, lots of check ins, no blame suggested. Pretty painless from the customer's view. I've had the car serviced for her: the dealership is a nice place to wait, and they do what they say they'll do when they say. And the entire dealership electricity is solar, a nice touch. But service isn't cheap.