New here, car's broke, few questions

Got this 2000 Golf back in May, been good so far. I accidentally put some bad diesel in (water mixed in) and it made it about 15 miles on low power, once it sat for 3 hours im sure the water all separated and when i started it up it ran for 30 seconds and then died. No restart.
So I drain the tank, lines, install new filter, purged the pump, injectors, finally got it going , starter is about shot though.
I drove it about 15 miles home and parked it, it ran great. Also discovered a burned out headlight.
So I changed the headlight bulb that night and then went to bed.

Next day. Started car, started hard... like a cold diesel with no glow plugs. I got it to light after cranking it a few times and then it caught and slowly started and I let it warm up. Now, the glow plug light is flashing. Also the check engine light is on. I drove it 20 miles, and was fine, all of a sudden the car just shut off. Cranking it seems to act like it has no fuel.

Walked many miles, got ride home, got car trailer, got car home.

Week later (Today) I had time to look at it. Everything looks physically fine. I redid someones connections on the glow plug harness that was kind of rigged. Hooked vacuum pump up to the pump again, straight fuel coming out. Got fuel seeping at injector when cracked.

So is there anything electrical on this thing that would keep it from firing? or something that would shut it off instantly?

The only thing I did from the first time i drove it home and all was good was change that headlight bulb, I checked any harnesses in that area that could have been touched. The whole engine is covered in diesel from the 3 days of trying to get it to start from the bad diesel.

I dont have a scanner so i have no available codes.

Any pointers in what to check?

Thanks.

New fuel filter with fresh good diesel in tank.
Maybe try running it on an IV of diesel? This would isolate if it's still a fuel issue.

Need to get the codes checked, could be something helpful, glow plug flashing is as important as a CEL.

He did say that he installed a new filter, drained tank, put in fresh fuel, etc.

As ItAintRodKnock said, Diagnostic Test Codes will be extremely helpful. Also, running it on the IV set-up as he suggested can help isolate or rule out some of the possibilities and also give you an opportunity to dump in some additive to help clean out any trapped water beads in the IP and Injectors.

The GP light flashing has nothing to do with the GPs. It is just another means for the ECU to tell you something is going on with the engine and related items. There are close to one dozen items that will cause the GP light to flash.

BTW, I was through Janesville, Wisconsin back in July! And, I've spent a few nights there down through the years. Great Cracker Barrel across from Motel 6 ...

AndyBees said:

The GP light flashing has nothing to do with the GPs. It is just another means for the ECU to tell you something is going on with the engine and related items. There are close to one dozen items that will cause the GP light to flash..

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Thanks.
Is there a list somewhere? I wont be able to get any codes any time soon. I will go through the fuel system tomorrow again and see if i can find anything.

Per a post by MOGolf, the codes that cause a flashing glow plug light are:

00741 Brake pedal monitoring - implausible signal
01044 Control unit incorrectly coded
16705/P0321 Engine speed sensor - implausible signal
16706/P0322 Engine speed sensor - no signal
16955/P0571 Brake light switch (F) - implausible signal
17653/P1245 Needle lift sender (G80) - short to earth
17654/P1246 Needle lift sender (G80) - Implausible signal
17655/P1247 Needle lift sender (G80) - Open circuit/short to positive
17762/P1354 Modulating piston movement sender (G149) - electrical fault in current circuit
17969/P1561 Metering adjuster (N146) - control difference
17978/P1570 Engine control unit blocked
18020/P1612 Control unit incorrectly coded
18026/P1618 Glow plug relay (J52) - short to positive
18027/P1619 Glow plug relay (J52) - open circuit/short to earth
18040/P1632 Accelerator position sender - voltage supply

Pwrtrip said:

So is there anything electrical on this thing that would keep it from firing?

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Check Relay 109? Battery? Did you check the resistance of the plugs when you redid the connections?

Pwrtrip said:

or something that would shut it off instantly?

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Bad connection on the starter triggering an immobilizer problem?

Pwrtrip said:

The whole engine is covered in diesel from the 3 days of trying to get it to start from the bad diesel.

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A quick power wash will fix that and wise before doing anything with wiring that could create a spark.

Personally I would drain the new fuel filter and fill with Diesel Kleen (grey).

If you power wash ...... make sure the ALT doesn't get direct spray. The seal that protects the voltge regulator micro board on the back of the ALT cannot take high pressure ... ask me how I know! ..... keeping my ALH nice and clean.

It seems to be fuel related. If I crack the #3 injector is seeps out while cranking, not spurting. Crack any of the others and nothing comes out. I spent about 4 hours with a mityvac, keeps sucking air bubbles. Found a really loose return line, from one injector to the other likely sucking in air there. I replaced that with some vacuum line I had, vacuum pumped some more, still lots of air. I might end up having to replace all those little lines.

*edit, ordered a bunch of lines from mcmaster to replace everything. I'll do that and start from there.

Any way to tell if a pump goes bad?

Did you change the o rings when you changed fuel filter. I usually lube them with a bit of petroleum jelly. No bubbles no troubles.

Replaced all the lines with clear lines....now I have a visual. I have the mityvac hooked up to the return, the return hose is off the filter and the filter port there is open. Im getting big bubbles out of the filter going into the pump, whats to prevent the open port on the filter from sucking in air?

Once the air going into the inlet hose it stays there and will not leave. fuel trickles past it but the huge bubble stays.

Im curious if the lines in back underneath, the black one, might be leaking. Is there an o-ring on it? Or supposed to be? Cant find a pic.

muzy said:

Did you change the o rings when you changed fuel filter. I usually lube them with a bit of petroleum jelly. No bubbles no troubles.

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Yes, new o-rings.

I can maintain a solid inlet line, no bubbles. I disconnected the small return lines so I am pulling right from the pump. Still getting air, 3 hours worth so far. I've never seen anything like this...lol. the most horrible design ever.

Pwrtrip said:

the return hose is off the filter and the filter port there is open.

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For giggles, try plugging the filter port...Mark

maybe368 said:

For giggles, try plugging the filter port...Mark

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I did. Fuel coming out of the filter is bubble free now. Going into the pump is bubble free. Small injector return line is disconnected and plugged and im drawing directly from the pump return. Non stop air. I'm going to redo my connection there tomorrow, the clamped hose might be drawing air in.
....But still if a few bubbles were drawn in at the hose connection i've got like 6-8 hours of having a mightyvac on this, how long does it usually take or can it take? Tried cranking it again and it seeps out the #3 injector, but wont even get a drop out of #4.

Pwrtrip said:

The whole engine is covered in diesel from the 3 days of trying to get it to start from the bad diesel

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Is your IP leaking? If it's bad, you're probably drawing air into pump and can't pressurize lines to injectors

sdeck said:

Is your IP leaking? If it's bad, you're probably drawing air into pump and can't pressurize lines to injectors

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How do you check this? Does a IP work perfect then die instantly?

Im pretty much in the dark on this. No way to get codes, or know if there are codes. Not sure how the IP works if it is 100% mechanical or is there something electrical that dictates its operation?

The starter is about shot. It only engages for about 2 seconds before kicking out. I do know the starter got hot and smelled like cooking electrical.
Anything on it that could make the IP not work?

Is there a simple code reader that one can buy locally?
My spirit is running low working on this....lol. Seems like there are little to no options w/ these cars.

The Injection Pump is both mechanically and electronically operated. The Timing Belt provides the mechanical part and a number of things provide the electrical part via the ECU.

All of these items (copied from above) apply to the IP (and maybe others on that list).
17653/P1245 Needle lift sender (G80) - short to earth
17654/P1246 Needle lift sender (G80) - Implausible signal
17655/P1247 Needle lift sender (G80) - Open circuit/short to positive
17762/P1354 Modulating piston movement sender (G149) - electrical fault in current circuit

This is a solid example as to why you need access to a Vag COM Diagnostic System (VCDS) or other device to read the codes. Otherwise, you are stabbing in the dark.

If the GP light is flashing, rest assured there are DTCs awaiting for you to see.

Never crank a TDI or any engine until the starter smokes! If all is right with the engine, it doesn't have to be cranked for extended periods to start.

I doubt a leaky IP caused your problem... The problem started with the "bad" fuel and excalated from there.

You mentioned draining the fuel tank. Did everything there go back correctly? What did you remove or replace at/in the fuel tank.

If you are still pulling air into the IP (as seen in the clear hose), then that's the problem. You need to determine where the air is getting into the system. Honestly, I believe the problem is right there at the filter. Make sure the drain (pet-cock) on the bottom of the filter is fully shut (turn clockwise to shut).

Do you have the Thermo T in place with the clip holding it? Are those lines clamped?

Just today, I ran a car out of fuel while working on it. I had an IV set-up to do the diesel purge and accidently let it run out of fuel. I had it bled and back running in three minutes or less.

Scan Gauge can be purchased for about $150.00. You can Google the Code numbers to determine what they mean. Or, post here for responses. Also, Scan Gauge is a very useful device that provides a host of information while on the fly!

Surely, there is a guru in your area.

My 2000 Golf recently did this. No start. I reset all faults i found on the cars computer and it started and ran fine. It has not reoccured after 1 month or so.

AndyBees said:

You mentioned draining the fuel tank. Did everything there go back correctly? What did you remove or replace at/in the fuel tank.

If you are still pulling air into the IP (as seen in the clear hose), then that's the problem. You need to determine where the air is getting into the system. Honestly, I believe the problem is right there at the filter. Make sure the drain (pet-cock) on the bottom of the filter is fully shut (turn clockwise to shut).

Do you have the Thermo T in place with the clip holding it? Are those lines clamped?

Just today, I ran a car out of fuel while working on it. I had an IV set-up to do the diesel purge and accidently let it run out of fuel. I had it bled and back running in three minutes or less.

Scan Gauge can be purchased for about $150.00. You can Google the Code numbers to determine what they mean. Or, post here for responses. Also, Scan Gauge is a very useful device that provides a host of information while on the fly!

Surely, there is a guru in your area.

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My method of draining the tank was undo the connector underneath the fuel tank, Was up on a lift, had a 55 gal drum underneath it with a funnel and I put the air hose in the filler hole with a rag wrapped around it, very light amount of air flow and not sealed up entirely. This pushed all the fuel out the fuel line. Im sure there might be a little left, but refilled it with new diesel. Once I rigged up a makeshift vacuum pump it was easy. But before that I cranked it too much. Bought a new mityvac now.

Car started and ran, went for aprox 30 miles just fine, no flashing GP. But the next day starting it is when it started hard and the GP light was flashing.

Thermo T is in place with new o-rings and clip. Last night it looked as if no more air was coming out of the filter. I reverse purged it by blowing air into the fuel tank until a steady stream of fuel came out the filter. Was very close to installing an inline fuel pump up in the engine compartment with bypass valves just to use to purge. I still might.

I got some clear 3/8 yellow fuel line to watch. I will replace that with some other viton stuff I got and some quick connect fittings and a clear harder piece. If you can see the one bubble in the yellow line, it stays there, so fuel is entering the IP bubble free. Im still not 100% sure my connections on the mityvac are not causing the bubbles.
I have 5/16 fuel line going to a 5/16 hose barb union before my clear tubing at the mityvac. Everything else is capped off.

Using the mityvac, a small amount of vacuum will pull no bubbles, the more vacuum I apply it starts bubbling up. I might redo the cap I have on the injector return line, its just a rubber cap from the mityvac kit. But it cant be my connections because that would indicate the pump is bubble free and i'd get fuel shooting out. I dont. No fuel at all at #1,2,4, and just a little seeping out #3.

Its raining today and I have off work tomorrow. I will replace the starter and try it all over again after I replace the yellow fuel line, its just too weak of a rubber line to leave permanent.

I get that feeling whatever wrong is stupid and simple. I did check the resistance on the needle lift sensor, 86 ohms. And it stayed the same no matter where I flexed the wires.

I suggest a bit of a "stop-and-think" session. A few basic questions so everyone is working from the same premises.
1. what convinced you it was bad fuel to begin with? A IP with failing seals can give the same symptoms.
2. Again, you stated the engine is covered with diesel. Where did it come from?
3. Flashing GP light can also be triggered by any issues with timing, which can be the result of misfires. Ive seen it when I accidentally pinched off the filter-to-IP line and it starved for fuel
4. clean the IP with brake cleaner and check for diesel, especially behind it and at all the seams, after cranking it. In your pic, if you are getting air in the clear line but not the yellow line, I think it has to be a leaking IP. solid fuel into the pump and bubble out? Unless you forgot to tighten up the injector hard lines
5. Did you power wash it? That engine is remarkably clean except for diesel fuel sheen on various pieces…..

sdeck said:

I suggest a bit of a "stop-and-think" session. A few basic questions so everyone is working from the same premises.
1. what convinced you it was bad fuel to begin with? A IP with failing seals can give the same symptoms.
2. Again, you stated the engine is covered with diesel. Where did it come from?
3. Flashing GP light can also be triggered by any issues with timing, which can be the result of misfires. Ive seen it when I accidentally pinched off the filter-to-IP line and it starved for fuel
4. clean the IP with brake cleaner and check for diesel, especially behind it and at all the seams, after cranking it. In your pic, if you are getting air in the clear line but not the yellow line, I think it has to be a leaking IP. solid fuel into the pump and bubble out? Unless you forgot to tighten up the injector hard lines
5. Did you power wash it? That engine is remarkably clean except for diesel fuel sheen on various pieces…..

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1. I have drums of diesel, some of it had water in them. I filled it up with an unmarked barrel..not paying attention. Oops. Car ran right away at lower power but made it to a friends shop 15 miles away. It sat for 3-4 hours and when i went to leave it started, ran for 30 seconds and then shut off. My guess it the water had time to settle out. Draining the tank there was a lot water in it.

2. Diesel is all over it from the 1st round of purging it , injector spray. Drove it home after this.

3. Nothing was pinched, ran perfect when drove home, next day no.
I plugged my frost heater in and later turned the key, GP light went right out. I disconnected the battery for a bit. Then reconnected, turned the key on and the GP light just kept flashing. Left it on for a bit, never quit flashing. I turned off and back on and it was not flashing. My friend said Advance auto loans out the scanner, i might get that tomorrow after i change starters.

4. Hmm. I might have to double check the hard lines on the injectors. I tried cranking it over under vacuum with an injector cracked. That could be the issue if it draws air in there.

5. Thanks, I try to keep things clean. When I got it I degreased it and then used spray on oven cleaner and a tooth brush. The oven cleaner makes aluminum look like a freshly cast piece. And it takes off any baked on oil, dirt, carbon, works great. The best stuff is the most potent stuff, says not to use on aluminum. Dont use it on anything polished, it will make it dull.


And thanks everyone for helping me on this.

5. Thanks, I try to keep things clean. When I got it I degreased it and then used spray on oven cleaner and a tooth brush. The oven cleaner makes aluminum look like a freshly cast piece. And it takes off any baked on oil, dirt, carbon, works great. The best stuff is the most potent stuff, says not to use on aluminum. Dont use it on anything polished, it will make it dull.

uh oh

-Is there supposed to be power at the fuel shut off solenoid on the IP when the key is on? If it is fused, where is the fuse? The hieroglyphics on the fuse cover are kinda vague.

-How do you get the wire harness connector apart that goes to the IP? I want to check it but dont want to destroy it trying to get it apart.

Pwrtrip said:

-Is there supposed to be power at the fuel shut off solenoid on the IP when the key is on?

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Yes, or the valve won't open to allow fuel to flow. I don't know about the fuse. You can try jumping 12 volts to the fss directly from the battery to see if it starts. If it does, you found your problem...Mark

maybe368 said:

Yes, or the valve won't open to allow fuel to flow. I don't know about the fuse. You can try jumping 12 volts to the fss directly from the battery to see if it starts. If it does, you found your problem...Mark

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Thanks. I went and bought a hand held scanner. Going to try it out in a bit. Not sure what commands the FSS to come on? ECU or something? Maybe a temp switch faulty thinking its hot?? Hopefully this scanner will tell me something or else im taking it back.

Scanned it. No codes are present.

Pwrtrip said:

Thanks. I went and bought a hand held scanner. Going to try it out in a bit. Not sure what commands the FSS to come on? ECU or something? Maybe a temp switch faulty thinking its hot?? Hopefully this scanner will tell me something or else im taking it back.

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Your welcome. Even if it does work, take it back and use the money to buy a Ross-tech VCDS, you won't regret it. Probably won't be enough, but you could put it into a coffee can and save for it, well worth it, good luck...Mark

I think figuring out why that fuel shut off solenoid isnt powered is my next quest. ECU activated i would guess?? Or off the ignition? But it wouldnt be directly switched from it , I would think it would go to a relay and also be fused. ?? Im doing some searching around now for some schematics... Anyone have a link to any?
Thanks.

Jumped the fuel shut off solenoid, still the same, seepage at #3 and nothing at the other 3.
I loosened the solenoid and cranked it, I would think fuel should spray out, just seeps.

Anyone know how to tell if an IP is bad? Diagnostic tests?

Pwrtrip said:

-Is there supposed to be power at the fuel shut off solenoid on the IP when the key is on?

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Only briefly.

Scan for codes. Check engine light and flashing glow plug (which is essentially another check engine light). The car is trying to tell you something. It's a waste of time to troubleshoot without knowing the fault codes.

CopaMundial said:

Only briefly.

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Interesting, what keeps the fss open after it starts? The fuel pressure holds it open? How does the car shutdown? Thanks Mark

CopaMundial said:

Only briefly.

Scan for codes. Check engine light and flashing glow plug (which is essentially another check engine light). The car is trying to tell you something. It's a waste of time to troubleshoot without knowing the fault codes.

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Scanner shows no codes.

maybe368 said:

Interesting, what keeps the fss open after it starts? The fuel pressure holds it open? How does the car shutdown? Thanks Mark

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Car does not run so not sure how it shuts down.