think I should have walked away from this one (blue smoke starts)

harry3

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Location
wisconsin
TDI
2002 jetta tdi auto converted to 5 speed. 2003 tdi jetta 5 speed.
I bought a 03 jetta 5 speed about 6 weeks ago. 188k, no history other than the timming belt was done at 180k.
It takes 4 o5 seconds to start with lots of blue smoke. the smoke clears up pretty quick.
I put around 900 miles on it so far and it does not to be using lots of oil. fuel mileage good high fourtys. Has good power. I took the pipe off the ic and it was not ful of oil. It seems to be turing over as fast as my 02. Even after sitting for one hour it will still smoke sometimes at start. once it was parked aiming down hill on a grade and it seemed to smoke more on start up.
Did a compression test with a tester from a friend(dont know how good the thing is))310psi'310,310 and 310. minumin is 276psi. but 310 seems kinda low to me.
Will a compression test show bad valve guides?
Could it just be bad injectors?
Turbo? Thanks in advance.
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Do you have access to a VCDS? Setting the timing and iq might help.
 

belome

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Location
Mid MI
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS TDI 5-speed
If so, it may be worth it to see what kind of job they did on the TB. It may be worth it to redo it.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
If it is reading correctly, 310 psi is pretty low. However, you need to be certain the intake path is clear. Take the EGR valve off and see if there is any crud in there, and redo the check to see if it comes up.

Most healthy TDIs will be well over 400 psi of cranking compression.

Also as stated, check the physical and management timing.

I had a case like this on an ALH once that was a lot like this. Turns out the original owner decided to get an extra 65k bonus miles on the timing belt before it cashed in, and whomever did the subsequent valve job decided to just slap the thickest head gasket on there. That coupled with a M&P timing job made the car hard to start, smokey, and slow.

Took the 3-notch gasket out, but a correct 1-notch in there, correctly installed the belt and timed the pump, car started and ran like a top.
 
Last edited:

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
A compression check won't indicate bad valve guides as the valves are closed when the highest compression reading is taking place. Low(er) compression could be worn piston rings or worn/damaged valve faces.
 

harry3

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Location
wisconsin
TDI
2002 jetta tdi auto converted to 5 speed. 2003 tdi jetta 5 speed.
Timming and IQ both good. Will take off egr valve.
 

harry3

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Location
wisconsin
TDI
2002 jetta tdi auto converted to 5 speed. 2003 tdi jetta 5 speed.
I could test compression on my02
That may help me determine if gauge is reading close.
 

Blackjedi

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2014
Location
NE corner of WA state (Kettle Falls)
TDI
2000 jetta 5 speed 1.9 alh tdi
Could also be an injector or nozzle issue. Is it a light or dark blue? Does it turn black when it warms up or complelty goes away? If its not using much oil it's likely a fuel issue, or as others have stated valve guides.
 

harry3

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Location
wisconsin
TDI
2002 jetta tdi auto converted to 5 speed. 2003 tdi jetta 5 speed.
Could also be an injector or nozzle issue. Is it a light or dark blue? Does it turn black when it warms up or complelty goes away? If its not using much oil it's likely a fuel issue, or as others have stated valve guides.
Light blue, complety goes away.
So far this is my plan of attack, compression test my 02, that may tell me how true the tester is reading. Pull egr and check for soot. Check hard timing. Oh how I hope its fuel related!
It may take a few days to do these things but will post back. A big thanks to all!!!
 

SkeeterMark

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Location
North Branch, MN
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI 6M
Seems a little odd they would all be the same at 310psi - as in all of them would be equally low on compression, so I suspect the tester may not be reading correctly.
 

Powder Hound

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 25, 1999
Location
Under a Bridge, Crestview, FL, USA
TDI
'00 Golf 4dr White 5sp, '02 Jettachero 5sp, Wife's '03 NB Platinum Gray auto(!)
If the smoke clears up quickly after starting, I vote for worn valve stem seals. Smoke due to inadequate compression when cold due to worn or stuck rings would take a few minutes to clear up.

My test, (and it has not been verified but seems good to me,) is to remove the oil fill cap then start. You can observe if smoke comes out the oil cap port when you start. If you are getting smoke out the tail pipe, but not out the valve cover port, then it isn't the rings/excessive blow-by due to lack of compression.

Since you need to be there to replace the seals, you can check for guide wear at that time. I do not remember the exact amount, but I believe there should only be 1-1.5mm maximum stem deflection when the valve is closed, which is what it is when sitting on top of the piston at TDC.

So the operation becomes pull everything out to change the valve stem seal, then wiggle the stem and measure the deflection. If it wiggles more than 1.5mm, you need to stop, pack up the head, and send it to Frank for a valve guide job.

If there is very little to no deflection, then pop a new stem seal on, and reassemble.

Cheers!

PH
 

harry3

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Location
wisconsin
TDI
2002 jetta tdi auto converted to 5 speed. 2003 tdi jetta 5 speed.
Well sometimes you feel like a nut! I tried to do a compressoin test on my 02. In a hurry I forgot to unplug the ip plug. After turning over the motor then rememberd. Now the gadge jumps up on each engine revolution but then goes down to zerow. Did I reck my friends tool? At first I was thinking timing jumped but car is OK thank GOD.
 

harry3

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Location
wisconsin
TDI
2002 jetta tdi auto converted to 5 speed. 2003 tdi jetta 5 speed.
If the smoke clears up quickly after starting, I vote for worn valve stem seals. Smoke due to inadequate compression when cold due to worn or stuck rings would take a few minutes to clear up.

My test, (and it has not been verified but seems good to me,) is to remove the oil fill cap then start. You can observe if smoke comes out the oil cap port when you start. If you are getting smoke out the tail pipe, but not out the valve cover port, then it isn't the rings/excessive blow-by due to lack of compression.

Since you need to be there to replace the seals, you can check for guide wear at that time. I do not remember the exact amount, but I believe there should only be 1-1.5mm maximum stem deflection when the valve is closed, which is what it is when sitting on top of the piston at TDC.

So the operation becomes pull everything out to change the valve stem seal, then wiggle the stem and measure the deflection. If it wiggles more than 1.5mm, you need to stop, pack up the head, and send it to Frank for a valve guide job.

If there is very little to no deflection, then pop a new stem seal on, and reassemble.

Cheers!

PH
Thanks for the reply, if it is just valve seals could i let it go till the head has to come off?
also 2 days ago I set my glo plugs to stay on longer 6 sec. bout 35F and started right up 2 days in a row. one day no smoke at all and today blue smoke but cleared right up.
 

harry3

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Location
wisconsin
TDI
2002 jetta tdi auto converted to 5 speed. 2003 tdi jetta 5 speed.
No smoke coming out the oil fill hole with cap off at start or when running.
 

harry3

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Location
wisconsin
TDI
2002 jetta tdi auto converted to 5 speed. 2003 tdi jetta 5 speed.
I had to fix the compression tester, the check valve was bad. Tested my 02 today and the tester was still reading low. so at this point I'm sure the tool is reading low, and we can assume both cars have good compression since all the readings were within 30psi.
I did not take the egr off yet to look for soot in the intake, but should get to it this week.
 

CoolAirVw

Vendor
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
Jetta
I took the pipe off the ic and it was not ful of oil.
This check is checking for the turbo leaking oil into the intake track which causes it to burn in the cylinders and come out as smoke.

Turbo can also NOT leak into the intake track but leak into the exhaust track where it burns due to the heat of the exhaust and makes smoke.

How to tell the difference between this scenario and what others have mentioned (ie valve seals) ??? I dont know.
 

Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
TDI
Only the B4V left

harry3

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Location
wisconsin
TDI
2002 jetta tdi auto converted to 5 speed. 2003 tdi jetta 5 speed.
I took the egr valve off today and found that the intake manifold is very clean, also cleaned the snow screen it was about 3/4 plugged.
This 03 has just as good power as my 02, at this point I'm feeling confident that the motor is good and will continue to run the car as is, keeping a very close eye on the oil consumption and cold starts as the winter nears.
Thanks again to all. Comments always welcome!
 

harry3

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Location
wisconsin
TDI
2002 jetta tdi auto converted to 5 speed. 2003 tdi jetta 5 speed.
Do you have a VCDS cable to check the timing? If not, I can come over and we can check it with mine.

Glenn
I do and I did, spot on. Although would like to advance it to the top line. I did not check the hard timing yet but I will.
ran diesel purge thru it yesterday. Thanks Glenn!
 

harry3

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Location
wisconsin
TDI
2002 jetta tdi auto converted to 5 speed. 2003 tdi jetta 5 speed.
last tb job mark n pray? probably

I took the top tb cover off today. l saw a white mark on the cam gear and a white mark on the outside cover used to line up the can gear. OK its time to get the dust off the old timing belt tools!
 

harry3

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Location
wisconsin
TDI
2002 jetta tdi auto converted to 5 speed. 2003 tdi jetta 5 speed.
checked timing today

With the crank. On top dead center. The cam locking tool slipped right in. The lock pin for the ip would not go in and I could see the hole and it was so close that I assumed it would be better off leaving it where it was, knowing the IP timing is right on.
So with what I have done can I be assured that the timing is correct?
 
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