California raises diesel tax about 35 cents per gallon

Gary Barnhill

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2001
Location
Corona del Mar, CA
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE SR & Nav
CA just passed a bill that will raise gas $0.12 a gallon and diesel $0.20 a gallon plus another 5.75% sales tax increase on diesel. It's confusing but I think it equates to about $0.35 a gallon increase on diesel. The price increase is effective Nov 01, 2017. CA already has the highest fuel taxes in the U.S..

Using Costco Irvine, CA prices:
Diesel Now: $2.59. New price expected: $2.94
Gas Now: $2.79. New price expected: $2.91

I'd be interested in how you translate that diesel price increase into effectively lost miles-per-gallon.

My computations: (were made yesterday when Costco diesel was $2.55)
Old mpg 50: now effectively 43.34 mpg
Old mpg 47: now effectively 41.70 mpg
Old mpg 40: now effectively 35.94 mpg

Of course, gas cars effectively lose mpg as well due to the $0.12 per gallon increase; just not as much as diesel loses.

If my computations are correct (it's awfully early in the morning) it dramatically diminishes my interest in purchasing a "new" 2015 TDI. I guess I could buy one but then I'd have to move to Texas. :)

The top of the line Camry XLE at 27 mpg is virtually identical to 2017 Passat SEL in price ie $31,800.

The 2018 Camry arriving this July/August will have a substantial mpg boost plus a ton on new technology and a Lexus looking body. I'm guessing at least 30 mpg on Regular gas.
 

whitedog

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I don't understand how - or why - you computer the change in MPG for a price increase. Wouldn't it be simpler to compute a change in cost per mile? Also, I don't understand why you posted this in the Dieselgate section.
 

ezshift5

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Location
West Coast
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2013 JSW TDI (Enroute BB).......2017 Jetta 1.4 turbo 5M ....................
.....he's probably so angry - at the fuel tax hike - that he can't see/think straight..........

I know I am.




ez
 

Gary Barnhill

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2001
Location
Corona del Mar, CA
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE SR & Nav
I don't understand how - or why - you computer the change in MPG for a price increase. Wouldn't it be simpler to compute a change in cost per mile? Also, I don't understand why you posted this in the Dieselgate section.
Why MPG instead of cost per mile: The window sticker presents MPG as a way to compare one vehicle to another, so I think in terms of MPG. Now if I owned an airline I'd think in terms of cost per mile. :)

Why post in Dieselgate:
This is much discussion about buying or not buying the 2015 TDI. So for CA buyers this exorbitant, greedy, punitive, diesel tax increase seems on point relative to buying a 2015 TDI. Maybe this site needs a California only section.:)
 

UNsweet

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I did similar calculations when comparing car cars to my JSW. I needed to know how much my fuel expense was going to go up. I'm trying to ignore the reality of averaging 28mpg over my 36mpg (I have a lot of "city" driving in the winter when the snowbirds show up and clog the roads). What I find i'm missing the most is the range in the tank. 360 miles sure comes up fast!

That said, I didn't realize that gas was more expensive than diesel in CA right now - it is the opposite here in FL.

And, my mom is averaging 33mpg in her Passat SEL - she lives south of me and gets to avoid the slow snowbirds.
 

Mythdoc

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Tennessee
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Your approach to the math is backwards. The spread in mpg between one car and another is a fixed ratio, whereas the spread in market price is a moving ratio. Cost per mile is where you should be driving at, pun intended. You could go to fuelly and look at cost per mile over a range of fuel prices and mpg comparisons to get a true picture.
 

VeeDubTDI

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This is not dieselgate related. Moving to the west coast forum
 

john.jackson9213

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Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Location
Miramar, Ca. (Think Top Gun)
TDI
1996 B4V
Gary, The fuel economy "improvements" in the Camry from 2003 to 2015 are an illusion. Anita owned a 2003 4 cyl Automatic Camry for 170K miles. Her average MPG? 25 She got a 2015 4 cylinder Automatic Camry, for 30K miles here average MPG is 25. Best highway tank on the old Camry: 37 mpg New Camry: 35 (but not the same route or destination).

Window sticker on the 2003 says 24/21/29
Window sticker on the 2015 says 28/25/34

As for the tax increase- well the roads need to be fixed and somebody has to pay if we want them fixed. Everything is not "waste, fraud, or abuse". I want good roads! Sure the tax is less than perfect, but what the heck. Somebody has to pay. Sadly, there is just you and me to pay.

CA just passed a bill that will raise gas $0.12 a gallon and diesel $0.20 a gallon plus another 5.75% sales tax increase on diesel. It's confusing but I think it equates to about $0.35 a gallon increase on diesel. The price increase is effective Nov 01, 2017. CA already has the highest fuel taxes in the U.S..

Using Costco Irvine, CA prices:
Diesel Now: $2.59. New price expected: $2.94
Gas Now: $2.79. New price expected: $2.91

I'd be interested in how you translate that diesel price increase into effectively lost miles-per-gallon.

My computations: (were made yesterday when Costco diesel was $2.55)
Old mpg 50: now effectively 43.34 mpg
Old mpg 47: now effectively 41.70 mpg
Old mpg 40: now effectively 35.94 mpg

Of course, gas cars effectively lose mpg as well due to the $0.12 per gallon increase; just not as much as diesel loses.

If my computations are correct (it's awfully early in the morning) it dramatically diminishes my interest in purchasing a "new" 2015 TDI. I guess I could buy one but then I'd have to move to Texas. :)

The top of the line Camry XLE at 27 mpg is virtually identical to 2017 Passat SEL in price ie $31,800.

The 2018 Camry arriving this July/August will have a substantial mpg boost plus a ton on new technology and a Lexus looking body. I'm guessing at least 30 mpg on Regular gas.
 

jetlagmech

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2009
Location
Toledo, WA
TDI
2010 jetta
politicians look at the tax increase and think of all the money they will bring in because they assume nothing else will change. but if the price difference is large enough, then semi's will fill before crossing the border, people will reduce frequency of travel, and the state will end up with less revenue overall. and reduce money made by California business owners, further reducing income tax revenue.
 

john.jackson9213

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Location
Miramar, Ca. (Think Top Gun)
TDI
1996 B4V
Currently you can buy both gas and diesel cheaper in Arizona or Tijuana than San Diego. So out of state truckers are doing that right now and have been doing it for many decades. So it will not impact tax $ anywhere near what you might imagine.

When we go to visit family in Texas, I fill the Passat in Arizona on both ends of our trip. But the rest of the time, I just fill up at home.

Besides, oil companies and refiners jerk prices around all the time, by way more that 12 cents a gallon. When a refinery has a problem, the next minute EVERYBODY starts jacking up their prices to the max, then slowly lowers them to market supply/demand level. But they all jump prices to capture the fear/panic dollars. Just like the airlines do with their seat pricing.

Bottom line: Gas taxes are not keeping up with road repair costs. There is no Free Lunch.
 

flee

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Joined
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Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
I prefer fuel taxes to almost any other funding for transportation costs.
Even better than sales/use tax on vehicle sales/registration.
They who drive the most pay the most. Motorcyclists with our better economy get a break.
The increase for diesel helps defray the greater road damage from big rigs, too.
 

VLS_GUY

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Location
Camarillo, CA
TDI
2002 Bug, Skid Plate, Stage 1 Upsolute
Something else to consider is that the current gas tax regime was put in place for the mileage that old school Detroit iron would get. Today even with more miles being driven per year. Gas or Fuel Tax revenue has not kept pace with the number of cars on the road or miles driven by those cars. The success in getting increased fuel economy made this tax increase inevitable.
 

Tdijarhead

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2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
http://www.api.org/~/media/Files/Statistics/Diesel-Tax-Map.pdf

Diesel tax as of Jan 1 2017.

PA has jumped from # 15 on the list to #1 in four years. Even higher than CA and NY. A .35 cent increase in CA will put you guys in the same ballpark as us.

What about the EV cars? At this point not only tax free in most if not all states, but you can get a tax credit.

Yes road repair does need to be taken care of, but remember for every state road worker you see holding up a shovel when you drive by there is another getting paid the same salary and benefits sitting in a lazy boy in FL (or wherever CA workers retire to) with a beer in one hand and a remote in the other.
 

john.jackson9213

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Miramar, Ca. (Think Top Gun)
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1996 B4V
Yes road repair does need to be taken care of, but remember for every state road worker you see holding up a shovel when you drive by there is another getting paid the same salary and benefits sitting in a lazy boy in FL (or wherever CA workers retire to) with a beer in one hand and a remote in the other.
Respectfully, your unsupported opinion. Zero factual basis. IF retired Calif construction workers, retire to Florida as well of as you imagine, it is because they made a bundle of $$ from California real estate. After 40/45 years of working..
 

john.jackson9213

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Joined
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Location
Miramar, Ca. (Think Top Gun)
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1996 B4V
Something else to consider is that the current gas tax regime was put in place for the mileage that old school Detroit iron would get. Today even with more miles being driven per year. Gas or Fuel Tax revenue has not kept pace with the number of cars on the road or miles driven by those cars. The success in getting increased fuel economy made this tax increase inevitable.
Correct. It would make sense to increase the gas tax by a couple cents per year.
 

tdi54

Veteran Member
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Dec 19, 2010
Location
California
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1981 Rabbit Diesel(sold), 2009 Jetta TDI MT(sold)2010 Jetta TDI MT, 2015 Jetta TDI SEL, DSG, 99 Ford F 350 PSD Dually, 2016 BMW X5 xDrive35d, 2016 535d
The question is whether they will actually use this money on the road repairs. As usual, the politicians will find a loophole in the law and divert the money to other nonsense projects that benefits no tax paying legal CA residents. It happened before.
 

B100

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Location
Berkeley, Eastbania
TDI
2003 Golf
I prefer fuel taxes to almost any other funding for transportation costs.
Even better than sales/use tax on vehicle sales/registration.
They who drive the most pay the most. Motorcyclists with our better economy get a break.
The increase for diesel helps defray the greater road damage from big rigs, too.
I'm totally fine with the new taxes, the new charge on electric vehicles, the entire bloated package. Pork to sway reluctant legislators? You bet, that's how big bills get done. And they got it done, none too soon. Our roads are a disaster, and this is exactly the right way to address fixing them.
 

romad

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Location
Prescott, AZ
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If they hadn't been DIVERTING the current fuel taxes to NON-road purposes there wouldn't be a need for this ripoff. I just learned that part of the new taxes are already reserved for some non-road purposes.
 

Tdijarhead

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Lawrenceville PA
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2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
If they hadn't been DIVERTING the current fuel taxes to NON-road purposes there wouldn't be a need for this ripoff. I just learned that part of the new taxes are already reserved for some non-road purposes.

That's always the way it is. We don't have a tax collection problem, plenty of taxes are collected. We have a spending problem, as various politicians bribe each other with our tax dollars for pet projects in their districts, and then pat each other on the back while telling themselves what a great job they're doing.

At least half the country is sick and tired and fed up,with that same old, same old approach, and are willing to give someone a chance that says they are going to change the way things are done. Only time wil tell.

Our huge gas tax increase here in PA was phased in over 4 years. Yes they have been doing some road projects and repair, but mostly it was because unions have such sweetheart deals with full medical benefits and early retirement, you have to have money to fund stuff like that.
 

john.jackson9213

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Location
Miramar, Ca. (Think Top Gun)
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1996 B4V
I understand that people don't want to pay for (taxes) lunch.

Also understand that not all of us like everything that goes into the stew (the political process).

But when you are starving (for road repairs), you don't really want to be too picky about the available meal.

Taxes are like the weather...everybody complains...
 

romad

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Location
Prescott, AZ
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2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
John, IF Sacramento had not been diverting the taxes we ALREADY PAID for road repairs, there would NOT be a need for this rip-off. The new taxes haven't gone into effect yet but they have already started diverting them AWAY from road repairs, so don't hold your breath that your roads will be improved very much.
 

flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
That's always the way it is. We don't have a tax collection problem, plenty of taxes are collected. We have a spending problem, as various politicians bribe each other with our tax dollars for pet projects in their districts, and then pat each other on the back while telling themselves what a great job they're doing.
At least half the country is sick and tired and fed up,with that same old, same old approach, and are willing to give someone a chance that says they are going to change the way things are done. Only time wil tell.
Our huge gas tax increase here in PA was phased in over 4 years. Yes they have been doing some road projects and repair, but mostly it was because unions have such sweetheart deals with full medical benefits and early retirement, you have to have money to fund stuff like that.
First of all, thank you for your service if you are actually a jarhead. (If not, :confused:)
Secondly, if you are and are still serving or honorably discharged, you are likely a
recipient of some medical and pension benefits. If so, does your post apply to you?
So what's with the anti-union rhetoric? Do you feel the same about unions for
law enforcement, fire fighters and teachers? How about Teamsters? Auto workers?
Why not just boycott every product that has union labor producing it like mine:
the IATSE? (Look it up).
We set the standard for quality work world-wide in a very competitive industry.
My family has the benefits it needs because of my union.
I'll know in a couple years how sweetheart my pension is or isn't.:eek:
 

romad

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Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
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Maybe because it is because the unions have the politicians in their pockets? My wife is a retired teacher and she says she was fortunate that she wasn't required to be a union member. I was forced to join a union and all I got out of it was LESS pay! I also saw how the unions in the UK almost destroyed the economy there until they were reined in by Thatcher.

But to get back to taxes, even union members won't benefit from this latest money grab as they'll have to pay the same taxes!
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
First of all, thank you for your service if you are actually a jarhead. (If not, :confused:)
Secondly, if you are and are still serving or honorably discharged, you are likely a
recipient of some medical and pension benefits. If so, does your post apply to you?
So what's with the anti-union rhetoric? Do you feel the same about unions for
law enforcement, fire fighters and teachers? How about Teamsters? Auto workers?
Why not just boycott every product that has union labor producing it like mine:
the IATSE? (Look it up).
We set the standard for quality work world-wide in a very competitive industry.
My family has the benefits it needs because of my union.
I'll know in a couple years how sweetheart my pension is or isn't.:eek:
Greetings fellow industry worker! I've been in the theatre and events business all my life but never joined the union. Instead, I work for the commonwealth of Virginia as a filthy government employee. My particular business is unique in that we generate 100% of our operating revenue, so tax payers don't really have any room to critique my operation. I receive no pension although the health benefits and time off are nice. ;)
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Maybe because it is because the unions have the politicians in their pockets? My wife is a retired teacher and she says she was fortunate that she wasn't required to be a union member. I was forced to join a union and all I got out of it was LESS pay! I also saw how the unions in the UK almost destroyed the economy there until they were reined in by Thatcher.

But to get back to taxes, even union members won't benefit from this latest money grab as they'll have to pay the same taxes!
Everyone has politicians in their pockets. Unions, CEOs, other special interests, you name it. Politicians are supposed to work for all of us but sometimes they get lured into the greed trap and serve themselves and their buddies instead of their constituents.
 

flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
I'm having a hard time understanding how the ones who are for the deal-grabber-
in-chief have a problem with working people trying to get the best deal in return
for their labor. :confused:
In my union we vote for or against our agreements.
Is there occasional corruption involved? Definitely; that's the 'art of the deal'. :rolleyes:
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
Everyone has politicians in their pockets. Unions, CEOs, other special interests, you name it. Politicians are supposed to work for all of us but sometimes they get lured into the greed trap and serve themselves and their buddies instead of their constituents.
Actually, EVERYONE does NOT, especially we low and middle income taxpayers!

Hmmm, if I ever win the multi-million dollar PowerBall, maybe I should use the winnings to pick up some cheap politicians and judges! :D
 

john.jackson9213

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Location
Miramar, Ca. (Think Top Gun)
TDI
1996 B4V
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