Cat 2 micron fuel filter upgrade

mmoors · Jan 16, 2007

I am thinking of upgrading my fuel filter to the Cat 2 micron system. My car is a 2005 A4 Jetta and I have 34,000 km on the clock. Filter change interval is 32,000 km and for the cost I feel I am much better to spend a bit more now and save in the long run. My only concern is will this cause any issues with the warranty? Could you please reply with any suggestions! I live in Canada and would like to hear from fokes both sides of the border for a more broader perspective!

Mike

PDJetta · Jan 16, 2007

I had a in-tank lift pump fail at 46,000 miles and I had a CAT 2 um filter installed. The replacement pump was installed under warranty and the dealer service writer commented about the CAT filter, but it was not an issue, as far as the warranty was concerned. But your dealer may think differently.

--Nate

fitzski · Jan 16, 2007

In regards to warranty, the safe answer is that you should NOT expect to be covered for any fuel-system related problems during the warranty period if you are running a CAT filter.

There are many stories of dealers who have ignored or even complimented the CAT filter, but, by no means are they obligated to perform warranty work. What most people do is keep the OE filter, and then swap it back in before visiting the dealer should the need arise.

Jetta4Jeff · Jan 16, 2007

Cat vs OEM

PDJetta said:
I had a in-tank lift pump fail at 46,000 miles and I had a CAT 2 um filter installed. The replacement pump was installed under warranty and the dealer service writer commented about the CAT filter, but it was not an issue, as far as the warranty was concerned. But your dealer may think differently.

--Nate

I too have been into the dealer for warranty work since installing the cat filter, one trip was for the recall replacement of the EGR cooler. The service writer, mechanic, shop foreman, and I stood around the car talking about various things that included the new Cat filter assy. They were very positive with its better filtering ability and expressed some concern as to the OEM filter's lower particulate removal capacity (Cat 2 um vs OEM 10um). The service writer later took the car for a bit of a scoot, both inside the shop and around the lot, showing off the different sound from the car since it doesn't have a muffler or a Catalytic converter. This dealership sees a lot of diesels and has an Audi dealership attached as well. The service writer later said, privately to me, that the dealership really likes when customer/owners get really involved in their cars as it makes their job of servicing them easier.
I can see his point.
My experience has been positive with my chosen dealership. Your choice of 'mods', your car's condition, your relationship with the staff and your dealerships 'acceptance/tolerance' levels will all be different, of course, but I hope you are able to enjoy the same or better level of service with them as I am with mine.
Keep us posted...
Jeff

TornadoRed · Jan 16, 2007

mmoors said:
I am thinking of upgrading my fuel filter to the Cat 2 micron system. My car is a 2005 A4 Jetta and I have 34,000 km on the clock. Filter change interval is 32,000 km and for the cost I feel I am much better to spend a bit more now and save in the long run. My only concern is will this cause any issues with the warranty?

Talk to the service manager and let him know what you plan to do. Ask him about your warranty concerns, and mention that you've heard that lift pumps sometimes fail in those PD models which have lift pumps. If he expresses any concern about increased restriction with the Cat filter, mention that these are the exact same filters used on Class 8 diesel trucks -- those trucks pump a lot more gallons per minute through the filter than any TDI can.

You might also mention that hundreds or perhaps thousands of TDI owners have switched to the Cat filter. And with excellent results, as long as they are installed properly and there are no air leaks. In a PD engine with a lift pump, there would naturally be less likelihood of a problem.

PDJetta · Jan 17, 2007

fitzski said:
In regards to warranty, the safe answer is that you should NOT expect to be covered for any fuel-system related problems during the warranty period if you are running a CAT filter.

There are many stories of dealers who have ignored or even complimented the CAT filter, but, by no means are they obligated to perform warranty work. What most people do is keep the OE filter, and then swap it back in before visiting the dealer should the need arise.

I would have swapped filters, but my car quit while driving on the road stranding me. It just cut off (not even a falter) and I figured the ECU went out. It was the in-tank lift pump, though. Towed to the dealer and fixed under warranty.

The dealer also new the car was chipped! The service manager stated to me, "The mechanic loves your car. That's the fastest TDI we've had in here, what did you do do it" After I had the key in hand and signed off on the Warranty ticket, I said, "Its chipped" He said, "I know".

--Nate

oEo · Jan 17, 2007

Jetta4Jeff...

Since you live in a very cold climate, how often do you change the Cat filter? And, do you have any water concerns with the filter (freezing). With water being heavier than fuel and it sinks to the bottom (and without the drain) does that bother you?

LanduytG · Jan 17, 2007

oEo said:
Jetta4Jeff...

Since you live in a very cold climate, how often do you change the Cat filter? And, do you have any water concerns with the filter (freezing). With water being heavier than fuel and it sinks to the bottom (and without the drain) does that bother you?

Its kind of funny that everyone worries so much about water. I just wonder how many even drain it and how many have really seen water. In 20 plus years of driving a diesel I've seen water 1 time.

Greg

Acidhead · Jan 17, 2007

oEo said:
Jetta4Jeff...
Since you live in a very cold climate, how often do you change the Cat filter? And, do you have any water concerns with the filter (freezing). With water being heavier than fuel and it sinks to the bottom (and without the drain) does that bother you?

OVO since it's a class 8 filter I'll tell you what I see on my cat filter on my truck and car. The filter will hold back the water and it will stay in the filter. I have seen, twice, water that froze in a filter. That being said it was very cold -40f and the fuel was also gelled. So what I have said on a previous thread is that you should take off the filter and "dump" everything out every so offen in the winter. If you pour the fuel in a bowl you'll see the water on the bottom if there is any.
Personal I think that filter is for a smaller truck. But they are very good filters. They are alot better than OEM. And I change my cat filter every 20,000 miles. Yes I can keep it on longer but I rather change it sooner.

oEo · Jan 17, 2007

LanduytG said:
Its kind of funny that everyone worries so much about water. I just wonder how many even drain it and how many have really seen water. In 20 plus years of driving a diesel I've seen water 1 time.
Greg

Greg, I'm just asking questions! I know your a vendor... Sorry that I don't have 20 years diesel experience.

I've been interested in the Cat filter, I'm just looking and reading what people are saying... no biggie. From what I've read, it seems like a good investment...

fitzski · Jan 18, 2007

I change my CAT filter every fall, which is usually around 30-35k kms. Obviously it could go a lot further, but for the price, I figure it's cheap insurance/maintenance heading into winter.

ForestHill · Jan 18, 2007

LanduytG said:
Its kind of funny that everyone worries so much about water. I just wonder how many even drain it and how many have really seen water. In 20 plus years of driving a diesel I've seen water 1 time.

Greg

Well, an experienced TDI shop out this way (very dry in southern AZ) said he'd seen a number of fuel pumps with rust on vehicles with fuel filters that had no water drainage. Scared me enough to stay away from it.

oEo · Jan 18, 2007

I guess my question is, What is MoGolf draining in the 'Fuel Filter Change' video? Was that only fuel? Looks like water? Although he does go on to say that most people don't experience alot of water.
Thanks

Jetta4Jeff · Jan 18, 2007

oEo said:
Jetta4Jeff...

Since you live in a very cold climate, how often do you change the Cat filter? And, do you have any water concerns with the filter (freezing). With water being heavier than fuel and it sinks to the bottom (and without the drain) does that bother you?

oEo,
Based on mileage driven, and past experience, I change my filter once a year, usually in the fall.
I don't have any concerns currently with either the fuel gelling or water freezing in the system. I use a fuel heater and, sparingly, some fuel additive, as preventative measures plus buy fuel from reputable, high-volume sellers.
I would prefer the water to settle out in the bottom of the tank or the filter so it doesn't get carried through to a nozzle.
Not having a drain on the filter doesn't concern me. One less source of a leak?
Jeff

LanduytG · Jan 18, 2007

ForestHill said:
Well, an experienced TDI shop out this way (very dry in southern AZ) said he'd seen a number of fuel pumps with rust on vehicles with fuel filters that had no water drainage. Scared me enough to stay away from it.

How many is a number? 2 or 100. I would also have to say that regular maintenance was not being done because if it had then it would not have been and issue. Also wonding way they are taking pumps apart? Are they repairing them or just looking inside to see whats there? As far as AZ being very dry that has nothing to do with water being in the fuel. How many times have you drained or fuel filter since making the your mind up the Cat was no good since it does not have a drain on it?

Greg

dabear95 · Jan 18, 2007

I tried to drain my filters 2 or 3 times (I think) at 10 and 30K miles. No more, I just change them every 20K.

oEo · Jan 18, 2007

dabear95 said:
I tried to drain my filters 2 or 3 times (I think) at 10 and 30K miles. No more, I just change them every 20K.

Assuming its OEM, since CAT isn't in your sig?

dabear95 · Jan 18, 2007

oEo,

That is correct. I really want to get a CAT filter setup but there are two things stopping me:

1. I still have two standard filters left in the garage from a bulk order.
2. I'm concerned about the prolonged impact of adding restriction of fuel flow on the injection pump (as shown in other threads)

I mean 200K miles, I would like 450K miles out of this car.

Jason

mrGutWrench · Jan 18, 2007

dabear95 said:
oEo, That is correct. I really want to get a CAT filter setup but there are two things stopping me:
1. I still have two standard filters left in the garage from a bulk order.
2. I'm concerned about the prolonged impact of adding restriction of fuel flow on the injection pump (as shown in other threads)

I mean 200K miles, I would like 450K miles out of this car.
Jason

__. There was a good bit of info on restriction on this kit when it was first considered. Some people found a *very* slight additional restriction and a few people have recently found no additional restriction. Since filters tend to go up on restriction as they age (and get partially clogged), I'm guessing that any additional restriction is within what the pump would be normally expected to see. Add to that that the CAT filter has so much additional area, it might have a slightly higher restriction when new but lower after 10K or 20 or more (NOTE: This is just a guess on my part; take it for what it's worth.)

__. But there are no reported cases of damage that indicates there's a trend with CAT filters and I believe that hundreds have been sold.

__. I'm thinking that this is a "not to worry" thing.

oEo · Jan 18, 2007

I mean 200K miles, I would like 450K miles out of this car.

Holy crap, I'm only at 34k!!! LOL

My commute is just too short. it's less than 20 miles round trip. Most of it is highway however. I've been thinking about actually driving 2 exits past my stop just to get better MPG!! and back-track home.

(Once the engine warms up there is one straight where i open it up just to hopefully keep things 'unclogged')

. Gotta have some fun!

Thanks for the filter info!

later
oEo

Sleet · Jan 19, 2007

I've had my Cat II installed for 58k and it's still going strong (It's in it's second winter on the original filter). I tend to forget about it until threads like this pop up. I think about swapping it out but then forget about it again until the next thread comes along...

Should I change it? - probably so. But compared to the OEM it's such a better filter and it's designed to filter a much higher volume then our tdi's use so I'm positive it's fine.

Other then the original bubble problem - which was due to a defective "T" I've had no problems whatsoever. It's a great mod!

-J

mrGutWrench · Jan 19, 2007

Sleet said:
(snip) It's a great mod!
-J

__. That's my feeling, too!!!!

jasonTDI · Jan 19, 2007

Just do it. save the pump and the nozzles. The SLIGHT initial pressure increase is nothing compared to the 4+million particles of crap per gallon that your stock filter misses. I have seen water 1 time in a fuel filter and have changed hundreds of them. That was farm fuel too.

dabear95 · Jan 19, 2007

According to this thread it was almost a 60% increase in restriction. Obviously it is not a BIG a deal since we have not seen a rash of failed injection pumps from the filter. If the restriction was not there, I would have no doubts about long term use. I bet it would be a non-issue with a lift pump too...

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=21433

I'm going to use my last two stock filters then decide on the switch.

Jason

oEo · Jan 19, 2007

OK, I'm convinced! The CAT is good to go for an install... (after I pay-off a few things)

SUNRG · Jan 19, 2007

the Stanadyne FM100 fitted with a 5-micron 6" element results in lower than OEM restriction, and vastly improves filtration efficiency:

OEM = 58% at 3-5 micron, according to ISO/TR 13353
FM100 5-micron = 97% at 5 micron, per ISO/TR 13353 (92% at 2 micron)

Install: LINK, Pre-Filter Addition: LINK

oEo · Jan 19, 2007

... Seems like both set-ups work better than OEM... good to know!

jmarv · Jan 19, 2007

can someone post a picture of the cat filter?

oEo · Jan 19, 2007

http://www.lubricationspecialist.com/product_info.php?cPath=29&products_id=138

check out the site.

or the movie...

http://pics.tdiclub.com/video/cincitdi/index.html

fitzski · Jan 22, 2007

jmarv said:
can someone post a picture of the cat filter?

Cat 2 micron fuel filter upgrade

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