Driving aggressively in the twisties

Seeing I live in East Tennessee with some of the BEST twisty roads in America, I kind of have fun in the Jetta.

However, in doing so here recently it feels like the front end is about to fall out or something is wedged in the suspension occasionally. There are no indications (idiot lights) of a problem other than the handling goes to crap real quick and is unresponsive.

Does anybody have an idea what might be wrong? Is there some traction control kicking in? Is there a known issue with a 2012 VW Jetta 6 speed sedan?

It really sucks when you're having fun and then all of a sudden the handling goes away!!

Does it happen suddenly, then go away just as suddenly a second or two later? Sounds like your ESP is doing its job, but usually the ESP light will flicker rapidly when it is active, at least all my other so equipped dubs do.

oilhammer said:

Does it happen suddenly, then go away just as suddenly a second or two later? Sounds like your ESP is doing its job, but usually the ESP light will flicker rapidly when it is active, at least all my other so equipped dubs do.

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Yes, it does. But haven't noticed any lights...First time it happened I thought I'd hit a critter running about 70 at night on a twisty road. Second time I was running during daylight hours with nothing around. However I saw no lights on the dash...

Is there anyway to turn off this ESP that you speak of??

If your car has an "ESP" button, then yes, you can turn it off. When it is off, the ESP symbol will be on in the cluster the entire time. The older cars you could do this, but for some reason I am thinking the newer ones do not.

When I've had the ESP light flicker for loss of traction in torrential rain, it was a really quick flash that I'm sure I missed several times. The light only stays on while activated, or as OH said, when turned off. That told me that I needed new tires.

2012 Jetta does not have a ESP off button it can be added though I did it on my 2015 Jetta i

I have two Mk7's: a TDI GSW and a GTI. GSW has no ESP button, but the GTI does. From the factory, pushing the ESC button puts the car in ESC Sport mode, which limits the nannies but doesn't turn them off completely. When you push it, the skidding car icon lights up on the dash. For full ESC Off functionality, you have to code with VCDS or OBDeleven. Once the coding is done, pushing the button once puts the car in ESC Sport mode. Holding the button for ten seconds shuts off ESC completely and you get the below icon on the dash:

tomo366 said:

2012 Jetta does not have a ESP off button it can be added though I did it on my 2015 Jetta i

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Do tell HOW??

You buy the ecs kit and read the instructions. Or spend 10 seconds on google.

turbobrick240 said:

You buy the ecs kit and read the instructions. Or spend 10 seconds on google.

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Yeah you certainly don't ask on a forum where the discussion is taking place. Because idiots respond to a question on "how's it done" which indicates that the OP has not heard of nor has knowledge about the ESP function on his car...

You could have found the answer yourself in less time than that brilliant post took to think up.

turbobrick240 said:

You buy the ecs kit and read the instructions. Or spend 10 seconds on google.

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O.K. Mr. Genius. Please have pity on us poor Plebeian types and give us some links to the information. I tried ECS Tuning and google and came up with zip. That's a good half hour I'll never get back.........

It's all in the search. Try googling "installing vw esp off switch". The usp, and ecs kits will be among the top results.

Ol'Rattler said:

O.K. Mr. Genius. Please have pity on us poor Plebeian types and give us some links to the information. I tried ECS Tuning and google and came up with zip. That's a good half hour I'll never get back.........

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OK, why did you waste "a good half hour" on an issue that you are not having with your car?

I am thinking that if the OP is driving his car aggressively enough that the ESP needs to intervene, then the ESP is not only doing its job, but it is most likely keeping the OP safely ON the road instead of sliding into a guardrail or a ditch. I am not sure I would want to disable the feature at this point only to find out that the OP's driving skills are not as good as he thought, and he crashes his car. This is of course that his experience is indeed a case of ESP intervention.

If you'd like to experience ESP in a somewhat controlled environment, to actually see how it reacts, a large parking lot (especially a WET one) will bring its abilities to light pretty quickly.

I can tell you from my own experience, with two essentially identical cars, one with ESP and one without, that not only does the ESP work exceptionally well, it has intervened faster than I could have, and I DO consider myself a pretty good driver. Especially driving in the rain. Remember, ESP is more than just ABS (even though they use most of the same parts and use the same module).

So again, I would encourage the OP to find a safe place and experience the ESP so he can maybe determine if his original complaint of driving hard on twisty roads was perhaps indeed the ESP coming active and doing its job.

I agree with OH. Find somewhere safer to play with the different settings on the car. When my 03 Avalanche was new, we had a decent snow fall (about 4 inches of snow and slush) for Charlotte. We stopped to buy the kids sleds. While my wife and friend went into the store, my oldest stayed in the truck to play. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get the rear end to break loose until I turned off the ESP. The doughnuts were fun and easy.

MichaelB said:

OK, why did you waste "a good half hour" on an issue that you are not having with your car?

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Mostly to gain a better understanding about how the ESP system works. With modern technology knowledge is the most important tool in your tool box.

turbobrick240 said:

It's all in the search. Try googling "installing vw esp off switch". The usp, and ecs kits will be among the top results.

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The OP's issue is how do you disable the ESP completely which the ESP switch (factory or retrofit) will not do.

oilhammer said:

I am thinking that if the OP is driving his car aggressively enough that the ESP needs to intervene, then the ESP is not only doing its job, but it is most likely keeping the OP safely ON the road instead of sliding into a guardrail or a ditch.

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ESP kicks in way before there is a chance of the car going out of control.

My Mk4 has ESP, I run the car with it on almost always, but it does kick in way before tires even squeal at times.

Exactly. It works.

It's a great safety feature. The only times I've switched mine off are a couple times after a big snowstorm when climbing steep hills. Once I reach the top of the hill, it gets switched right back on. And one time when I felt like peeling out with some nearly bald tires.

oilhammer said:

Exactly. It works.

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It could be argued that engaging far too soon, is more akin to "broken" than "working".

I am absolutely not an ESP hater, I've sung its praises from the rooftops ever since I picked the car up from the dealer in Febuary 2003, but I will also talk of its shortcomings.

When I'm in the middle of a turn and the suspension is loaded nicely and the the ESP abruptly cuts power *and* applies the front brake of the outside front tire to prevent some supposed oversteer situation that was developing it is alarming, it feels like the car is going to lose control because of the actions of the ESP, I KNOW THAT WON'T HAPPEN, but it's startling and I've spent enough time on a track to know when the car is on the edge, and when it is not even close to it. The ESP engages when you are nowhere near the edge of traction, it is an amazing system, but it can also be completely annoying, at least in my car I can turn it off completely if I want to.


I'm not claiming I can "do better than the ESP" as I only have one brake pedal and it has 4 at it's disposal, but anyone with half a brain could get a car around a track much much faster with the ESP turned off than with it turned on plainly illustrating that it activates way before the car is in danger of losing control.

Ol'Rattler said:

The OP's issue is how do you disable the ESP completely which the ESP switch (factory or retrofit) will not do.

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Wrong. Try reading it again. He was asking about the switch.

jackbombay said:

I'm not claiming I can "do better than the ESP" as I only have one brake pedal and it has 4 at it's disposal, but anyone with half a brain could get a car around a track much much faster with the ESP turned off than with it turned on plainly illustrating that it activates way before the car is in danger of losing control.

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Driving fast on a race track is not the same as driving fast in the twisties on a public highway.

MichaelB said:

Driving fast on a race track is not the same as driving fast in the twisties on a public highway.

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I agree. If the OP is driving 70 mph on twisty roads at night and can't tell if he is mowing down critters or not....well maybe he needs the esp.

MichaelB said:

Driving fast on a race track is not the same as driving fast in the twisties on a public highway.

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Yes, good to see you agree with me.

That also has nothing to do with the ESP activating when the vehicle is in no danger of losing control. The comparison between a track and a public road is to illustrate that I have knowledge of how hard the car can be pushed before tires will slide compared to when the ESP activates, and just how "early" the ESP activates, that is, when it absolutely should not be activating.

jackbombay said:

Yes, good to see you agree with me.

That also has nothing to do with the ESP activating when the vehicle is in no danger of losing control. The comparison between a track and a public road is to illustrate that I have knowledge of how hard the car can be pushed before tires will slide compared to when the ESP activates, and just how "early" the ESP activates, that is, when it absolutely should not be activating.

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Not to be an antagonist, but we have no idea just exactly how dangerously he is pushing that car on twisty roads on dry pavement to come here to ask how to disable it. I feel we would be negligent in saying here is how to do it and now go out and kill yourself or some one else. I have driven down the Dragons Tail there and several people have been killed pushing their cars and motorcycles to the limit for the fun of it on a public road.

MichaelB said:

Not to be an antagonist, but we have no idea just exactly how dangerously he is pushing that car on twisty roads on dry pavement to come here to ask how to disable it. I feel we would be negligent in saying here is how to do it and now go out and kill yourself or some one else. I have driven down the Dragons Tail there and several people have been killed pushing their cars and motorcycles to the limit for the fun of it on a public road.

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VAG produced a a car with 1,200 hp and a top speed of 268 mph in the Veyron and you're worried about Internet forum poster liability on a TDI?

MichaelB said:

Not to be an antagonist, but we have no idea just exactly how dangerously he is pushing that car on twisty roads on dry pavement to come here to ask how to disable it. I feel we would be negligent in saying here is how to do it and now go out and kill yourself or some one else. I have driven down the Dragons Tail there and several people have been killed pushing their cars and motorcycles to the limit for the fun of it on a public road.

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We may be facing a moral quandary with regards to informing someone of a way to defeat a "safety device", but that is still unrelated to what I have been posting about, that is, ESP activating far far before the car has any chance of losing control.

If the ESP did not activate "so early" people wouldn't be seeking ways to disable it, so it could be argued that a less intrusive ESP system is safer as fewer people would disable it.