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TDI Conversions Discussions on converting non TDIs into TDIS. More general items can be answered better in other sections. This is ideal for issues that don't have an overlap and are very special to swaping engines.

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Old June 1st, 2019, 17:10   #16
Koehn
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Originally Posted by groundscraper View Post
But i have to convert from viscous to eletric fan, need a lift pump, since the allroad doesnīt have one, only a "swirl" one(since itīs a Quattro, 2 tanks), the AC may work different also, and a few other problems. "can-bus" probably...

Iīll keep an eye on this to see how you manage, good luck.
Welcome here! I've heard AllRoads can be tougher to work on, so good luck!

I'm already running into more problems than I'd considered! In my months of research and planning I either didn't notice or forgot that the European TDI's mounted the A/C pump on the right side of the car (same as Passat BHW TDI) where North American gas cars have it mounted higher and on the left side. If I want to use my car's compressor (which I think might be the same as the supplied AWX one) I'll either need to extend the A/C lines, or I'll have to relocate the compressor with the BPW (B7) accessory bracket, change my crank pulley to a 6-groove one (ALH) change my alternator pulley to a 6-groove one, and convert from viscous fan to electric.

This is the exact same cross road QuickTD came to! The A/C line extension seems simpler intially, but it's not something I've ever worked on before. What is all involved in the viscous-electric conversion? If I go that route I'll also need to source a few more parts before I start removing the engine from my car, which is an unfortunate slow down...
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Old June 1st, 2019, 17:11   #17
mogly
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I wish i'd seen this post earlier. WHen I converted my AVF-01E wagon years ago I opted to convert the TB tensioner to the BHW style stud unit for exactly the reasons you've noted. Good thing is that you can easily do it at next TB exchange.
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Old June 1st, 2019, 17:45   #18
Koehn
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Today was a real beauty so I tried to get some work done.

With my Amazon-supplied tool kit, and Darkside Developments cambelt kit on hand, first thing I did was replace that. Previous worker sealed the water pump in with Black RTV-like sealant. The bolts were pretty glued in and required the impact driver. Once that was replaced and the area was cleaned up a bit it was time for reinstallation. It took about 3 tries to set the tension at the proper 4mm gap after cranking the engine around. I had to adjust the then tensioner to about 5.5mm gap, then tightened the tensioner bolt to the 20nm + 45 degrees. That seemed to settle it nicely at a slightly loose 4mm gap, well within the 3-5mm range. The tensioner stud wasn't included in the kit, so I guess that doesn't have to be replaced?



After that I started looking closer at the two wiring harnesses to see if anything else was different. Barring the last image, these connectors are all found on the lead that travels up the right side of the engine past the intake manifold. I kept flipping which way I held the connectors, sorry!
The first image is the connector for the vacuum damper solenoid I mentioned yesterday. Left plug is LHD harness, right plug is RHD harness. The grey plug on the left has the upper left corner filled in, and won't connect to the solenoid on the engine.



The second image shows two 5-pin connectors that are very different in style. The left one is the RHD harness, the right one is the LHD harness.



The third images shows a pair of connectors from each harness that branch off together, no two connectors are the same. Left two are RHD, right two are LHD.



The next goes to the A/C compressor. Left (broken) is LHD and right is RHD. TDI A/C compressor only fits the right connector, not sure about the 1.8T one in my car. (EDIT: Yeah, I realized how dumb I was on this one. It's clearly just the broken part of the male connector in it)



The fifth and final different set is found off the main trunk right above the bell housing. The RHD harness has the two connectors on the left, while the LHD harness only has the single connector on the right.



From what I checked, all the wires going into these connectors are the same colours despite the connectors being different,with the exception of the plug that's missing entirely. My plan is to de-pin the connectors and just swap the housings as required. Are these differences in the harness purely from the year? Is this a bad plan and the harnesses are actually incompatible? Frans hasn't told me anything about it other than that it is for LHD cars.

After all that, I installed my Darkside Developments 51mm race pipe/EGR block off plate. It's a nice piece of kit, has good instructions, but requires a little modification to the charge-air hose to work (easy to do, but irreversible). It's great, I'll try to get a picture of it later.

Last edited by Koehn; August 18th, 2019 at 21:17.
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Old June 1st, 2019, 17:53   #19
Koehn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogly View Post
I wish i'd seen this post earlier. WHen I converted my AVF-01E wagon years ago I opted to convert the TB tensioner to the BHW style stud unit for exactly the reasons you've noted. Good thing is that you can easily do it at next TB exchange.
What is all involved in the conversion? Because I'm very interested in updating it next time!

I found this thread on vwaudiforum about an ASZ that a guy wanted to convert, but it didn't work for him. Then another guy chimmed in and said after swapping the back plate he had to drill and tap a new hole into the block (I think for the idler?) but he'd chewed up 2 belts in only a few months.
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Old June 2nd, 2019, 05:20   #20
groundscraper
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Koehn, now that iīm deep into it, i realize that it will actually be harder that i expected. From year to year, LHD/RHD, EU/US market thereīs quite a few differences, so whatīs valid for one person project, might not be for yours...

But by saying that, were i live, thereīs all kind of jeepīs, VW, patrols, Samurais converted to PD engines, so if they can do it, it can be done with the right info and skill.

About the electrc fan, you will need more than the fan, it has some kind of control unit in the support, some pics:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlY1eE2P7cvOph7FzO3Ya4_CKJy3
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlY1eE2P7cvOphwrHoq6qCmsOLCE
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlY1eE2P7cvOph262aj9bmU327yJ

This a EU B6 AVF 2004MY, the fan is single for AC e radiator, and itīs variable speed, etc etc
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Old June 22nd, 2019, 17:24   #21
Koehn
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Progress Report:

After weighing my options, I decided to try my hand at relocating the A/C compressor with the BPW bracket, converting the crank and alternator pulleys to 6-groove, and ditching the viscous fan for the electric setup already in my car. The accessory bracket I purchased has the part number 03G903143D. From what I can tell, 03G903139D is also identical. 7zap even shows a B6 AVF configured with this bracket, so I guess some cars came that way from the factory. The bracket still hasn't arrived so I can't actually verify that will even work for me yet. I found a used ALH crank pulley, and bought a new alternator pulley and replaced the 4-groove ones with those.The alternator pulley part number is 535 0012 100.

Last weekend I pulled the engine and transaxle out by following this guide for a V8. There's obviously a few key differences, but in general I found it very helpful! I thought I could keep the A/C and power steering lines connected, but I don't think that was possible. A/C system didn't have any Freon left in it anyways.



Pretty proud of being able to do it all solo! At the time, I didn't have the 17mm Allen driver so I decided to leave the front axles mounted. Because all the bolts on the exhaust downpipe were rusted and rounded, I couldn't remove the pipe either. The axles and the exhaust want to be in the exact same place. Make your life easier, remove those axles!



With the AMB 1.8T out I was able to better compare what I have. I learned the gas and diesel have different locations in the rain tray for the brake booster vacuum line. So I extended the connection behind the rain tray with some hose and moved the bulkhead grommet. (no pictures at the moment). I also discovered that while the A/C compressors are likely the same type, they have different pulley styles. The diesel one looks like it has a one-way clutch How important is that?

At this point, I've figured out where almost all of the engine harness connectors go to, which is nice! I've depinned and swapped a number of connectors between my two diesel harness and the gas engine harness. There's still two connectors mounted low and under the intake manifold area that I can't identify. If anyone knows what these are for it'd be greatly helpful!



The connectors in question are #2 and #4 shown in the image above. Here's closeups of the two showing that #2 has brown/green and red/white, and #4 has red/white and brown/yellow.




I compared the intercoolers between the 1.8T and the TDI and found a few key differences. First off, the 1.8T intercooler has a sensor on the upper end tank while the TDI doesn't. They have different dimensions and the TDI intercooler mounts to the frame with a different bracket than the 1.8T. The B6 TDI bracket apparently has the same part number as a B7 2.0T left side intercooler bracket (8E0 145 813G) which is nicely available in North America! I'm now considering getting the full B7 double-intercooler setup, but I don't yet know how that interacts with the existing B6 A/C drier which mounts in the front right.





Now some questions for people that know more than me!

As I mentioned above, what are those two connectors that I couldn't identify on the right side of the engine.

Also, when I did a quick comparison between the AWX and AMB harnesses of the Red, Black, Tan, and White connectors that go under the ECU box, I noticed a number of wires on the AWX that weren't on the AMB and thus were also not on the car side. I have the Bentley manual for the B6 which has comprehensive wiring diagrams for the gas, and I have the UK Haynes manual for the B6 petrol/diesel. It does not have comprehensive wiring diagrams and I suck at reading them anyways. Does anybody have information on what I need to do with these Red, Black, Tan, and White connectors to get it all to work?

Last edited by Koehn; August 18th, 2019 at 21:20. Reason: Fixed image hosting
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Old June 22nd, 2019, 17:26   #22
Koehn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groundscraper View Post
Koehn, now that iīm deep into it, i realize that it will actually be harder that i expected. From year to year, LHD/RHD, EU/US market thereīs quite a few differences, so whatīs valid for one person project, might not be for yours...

But by saying that, were i live, thereīs all kind of jeepīs, VW, patrols, Samurais converted to PD engines, so if they can do it, it can be done with the right info and skill.

About the electrc fan, you will need more than the fan, it has some kind of control unit in the support, some pics:

This a EU B6 AVF 2004MY, the fan is single for AC e radiator, and itīs variable speed, etc etc
Dude you're so right, there's countless year to year differences!

Because my B6 already has the electric fan w/ control unit, I'm hoping there's an easier way to just use the existing equipment. I'm really really hoping!
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Old June 23rd, 2019, 06:38   #23
groundscraper
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Originally Posted by Koehn View Post
Dude you're so right, there's countless year to year differences!
Because my B6 already has the electric fan w/ control unit, I'm hoping there's an easier way to just use the existing equipment. I'm really really hoping!

I have quite alot more info now, at least for my swap, i know the wiring color in all the plugs you mentioned, on the "e"plenum to the inside... i did an excel table with AKE to AVF, but i think it would not be of much help to you... since itīs EU market, and the chassis is a C5 allroad, and itīs a AVF engine going in... pretty sure most things would not match.

Iīm learning to read VW diagrams(as much as i can), so i could trace the terminals and colours to each unit and plug. I discovered, that in my case almost every pin in the white, brown, orange, red and black plug match colour wise and function from AKE to AVF.

Maybe is what youīll need to do... map the plugs from engine to chassis.
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Old June 23rd, 2019, 19:00   #24
Koehn
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Originally Posted by groundscraper View Post
I have quite alot more info now, at least for my swap, i know the wiring color in all the plugs you mentioned, on the "e"plenum to the inside... i did an excel table with AKE to AVF, but i think it would not be of much help to you... since itīs EU market, and the chassis is a C5 allroad, and itīs a AVF engine going in... pretty sure most things would not match.
Iīm learning to read VW diagrams(as much as i can), so i could trace the terminals and colours to each unit and plug. I discovered, that in my case almost every pin in the white, brown, orange, red and black plug match colour wise and function from AKE to AVF.
Maybe is what youīll need to do... map the plugs from engine to chassis.
I really appreciate the offer! But I think you're right, our cars are just too different. I don't have an orange connector in there at all!

I just finished drawing out each connector with the coloured wires I observed. I haven't yet determined the function of any of them, this was purely for a visual comparison by colour and location. It looks like a decent number of the pins are the same (at least by colour), but there's a fair amount that are very different also

I mentioned earlier that I have the North American Bentley manual and the diagrams are very comprehensive. Like so comprehensive I haven't a clue how to read them! But that manual only helps for the gas engine/chassis side of the wiring. Even once I've figured out that I'll need data on the diesel harness to compare the two


Last edited by Koehn; August 18th, 2019 at 21:22.
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Old June 24th, 2019, 01:05   #25
groundscraper
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This helped me alot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKnTjuSmwaE&t=225s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMn0i-yHhSA&t=6s
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Old June 24th, 2019, 08:58   #26
Koehn
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Thanks for those links, I'll definitely give them a watch!

And to anyone following along, sorry for the lack of images in these last posts! They all show on my end, but clearly there's an issue with the hosting service I'll try to sort that out after work today. I promise it's not supposed to be a wall of text

EDIT: I think the images are all fixed now

Last edited by Koehn; June 24th, 2019 at 20:00.
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Old July 6th, 2019, 19:20   #27
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Alright! So I've spent the last while teaching myself both how to read wiring diagrams (huge thanks to groundscaper for linking those videos) and German (more on that later), which would make my grandparents proud.

I mentioned earlier that I had the Bentley service manual for the B6, so that had all the wiring diagrams I could ever need for the car side. My car is model year 2005 which means it's right at the end of B6 production so there was at least 1 instance of B7 wire colour-crossover that I noticed(T17e/14). After watching those RossTech videos, the diagrams were much much much simpler to read, but I know I still don't 100% understand them.

The diesel side was a lot more complicated. Since North America clearly never got this engine in the A4, and my UK Haynes manual doesn't have detailed diagrams, I didn't have access to the right stuff. I gained access to a *totally 100% legal* copy of ElsaWin v4.0 and was able to find diagrams for a 2003 A4 with a 1.9 AWX. I think that's what my harness comes from, honestly have no idea. The one caveat with these diagrams that I alluded to earlier, everything is in german. With the aid of google translate, and a number of hours, I managed to piece together the diesel side of my spreadsheet.

I've never really used Excel/Sheets before, but I managed to cobble together a document to help try to keep me organized. I also found pinout data online for the AMB from a few forums, so I added that information. It mostly just got me started.

Because I was learning as I went, there's a frustratingly-high level of inconsistency in my recorded data. The diesel side is much more thorough, but I think I should have everything I need.

If anyone wants to view/copy my information, you can find it here

Now I've gotta figure out how to rectify where the harnesses differ!
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Old July 23rd, 2019, 22:00   #28
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Lately I've felt progress has been hard to come by. I keep removing things from my car but nothing has gone back on it! Aaaaanyways

I removed the rear subframe with the intentions of gaining access to the fuel tank. In the process I discovered a proper mess of surface rust and a some fairly worn out bushings (260000+ kilometres will do that!). I was planning on replacing my rear control arm bushings, rear shocks, front struts, and front control arms at a later date. Since I was already in there, why not do it now.



After removing and the arms (only one bolt required cutting) and disconnecting the axles and pulling the rear diff, I attacked the subframe with a wire wheel. Managed to clean off a vast majority of the scaling there, and cleaned up the rear sway bar, upper control arm, and crossover pipe. After a fresh coat of Tremclad, it all looked serviceable once more.



Once my new parts arrived, I started work on removing the lower control arm bushings. Maybe it's just me, but these things are a total pain. After a few hours working the press, cutoff wheel, hammer and punch... I cracked an arm.



Clearly loading it in the press like this was a bad idea, but it worked for the previous arm and I honestly couldn't figure out any better way. Now I can either find another old arm and hope I don't break it pressing the old bushings out, or buy a new one $$$



Also, the plastic rings on the rear sway bar fell to pieces the moment I removed the bushings, anyone know if they're important/if you can buy replacements? I assume they're only supplied on the bar

Side note: I only recently discovered FCPEuro, and their prices on pretty much anything are hard to beat. Even with the terrible USD-CAD exchange rate and me having to pick up my parts from across the border
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Old July 24th, 2019, 02:31   #29
Braddman
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I have found the best way to remove most control arm bushing is with a ball joint press. It looks like a heavy duty c clamp. If you get lucky you press the bushing our in one shot otherwise the rubber and centre sleeve will press out then you just use a die grinder and very carefully grind a slit lengthwise in the outer sleeve and knock it out with a punch. That is how I replaced one of my rear upper control arm bushings on my A4 B7. What do you mean by plastic rings on the rear sway bar? The sway bar bushings? If so napa or carquest should be able to get them. I found Rock Auto is a pretty good place to get parts although I usually only use the website to look at pictures and prices then I buy local. I also found a good website for parts breakdowns on Audi’s https://parts.audiusa.com/a/Audi_200...O/1397725.html.
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Old July 25th, 2019, 22:48   #30
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I have found the best way to remove most control arm bushing is with a ball joint press. It looks like a heavy duty c clamp. If you get lucky you press the bushing our in one shot otherwise the rubber and centre sleeve will press out then you just use a die grinder and very carefully grind a slit lengthwise in the outer sleeve and knock it out with a punch. That is how I replaced one of my rear upper control arm bushings on my A4 B7. What do you mean by plastic rings on the rear sway bar? The sway bar bushings? If so napa or carquest should be able to get them. I found Rock Auto is a pretty good place to get parts although I usually only use the website to look at pictures and prices then I buy local. I also found a good website for parts breakdowns on Audi’s https://parts.audiusa.com/a/Audi_200...O/1397725.html.
A ball joint press sounds like it would be very handy! Because most of the bushing seats have very small faces, it made it difficult to support the arm in the right places. But that's all finished for now.



These are the plastic rings I was talking about. They sit between the bushing and the bar. I believe they are mounted during the manufacturing process. I've got a used S4 sway bar coming from my local wrecker, so that'll be a nice upgrade at least.

I dropped the fuel tank today, what a beast! Everything went smoothly except for one fitting. The breather hose connection on top of the tank under the cargo compartment... I tried everything I could think of and I couldn't get it to unlock cleanly. I eventually got it apart, but not without damaging it. In hindsight, it seems like you have to pull the black collar in the same direction that you'll be removing the hose, but wasn't working for me. Seeing as the orange valve is welded to the tank, I may have to get creative to make sure that seals upon reinstallation. Anybody knowhow ot find the black plastic locking piece in the second photo (that's supposed to be one piece BTW)? I also found a barcode sticker on the tank with the label "KKB B7 Quattro LEV II" soooo is my fuel tank from a B7 now? Seems like it might be a replacement from a wrecker judging by the yellow marker on the tank.








Last edited by Koehn; July 25th, 2019 at 23:16.
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