Tsi engines

03GolfTDI

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I think I've read that the low SAPS euro oils like 507 and 229.51 don't hold up very well in gasoline engines burning ethanol blend fuels.
Its the sulfur that does not play nice with the low SAPS - but gasoline now has to meet ultra low sulfur levels (average I think 15 PPM - same as diesel now) its pretty much a non-issue if you are filling up at quality stations.
 

meerschm

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VW owners manuals are notoriously inaccurate when it comes to oil specifications.

That aside, 504.00 is a gasoline engine spec. The corresponding diesel spec is 507.00
understood, and the Castrol LL03 is rated for 504 and 507 (so says the label)
 

meerschm

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IndigoBlueWagon

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Right. Most oils with certification will show gasoline and diesel, when it's appropriate. But some won't. So you shouldn't go by the gasoline spec only, look for the diesel one. If you're driving a diesel, of course.
 

turbobrick240

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I don't see the 504/507 oils doing any real harm when used in N. American gasoline VW's, but I'd look for the 502 spec when buying new oil. Not only is it more robust in the TBN dept., but it's also quite a bit cheaper.
 

oilhammer

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We only use 507.00 oil (Pentosin SP3) in the CR VAG TDIs, despite the fact that they carry the MB 229.51 spec, I use Pentosin HP2 in those. That carries 229.51 as well (what all the modern MB engines spec, gas OR diesel, for long life service) as well as VAG 502.00, 505.00, and 505.01. This product has not steered me wrong yet.

Pentosin is a product of Fuchs Oil, in Germany. Their entire product line seems to cover all VAG, MB, and BMW fluid specifications.

Oddly, though, most newer MB products allow you to select which oil grade is used, and it will adjust the fixed or flexible (however equipped) service interval accordingly. I've never seen a 228.51 or 229.31 spec oil, but the car can be set for those. I know they result in a shorter fixed interval. Not sure why you would use a clearly inferior oil and change it more often, though.

Back to the VAG gas engines: I am sure there are Xw30 oils meeting 502.00 spec, but given the oil consumption rate many (most) of those engines have, I'd want to stick with a 5w40. I know a lot of TDI owners who are now gasser owners and are constantly caught off guard of how much oil these engines consume.
 
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IndigoBlueWagon

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It's been rumored for some time that CRP is going to drop the Pentosin brand and market oils only as Fuchs. We were out of Super Performance III (their 507.00 oil) for a while and wondered if it was coming back. But we got a shipment late last week, so I guess they're not dropping the brand yet.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
And Fuchs has their own branded stuff in other markets, too.

But hey, Castrol is part of BP, and you can buy BP branded oil in some markets too, so... :confused:

They told us at MB that Fuchs was the factory fill. I have no way to confirm this, though.
 

meerschm

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Right. Most oils with certification will show gasoline and diesel, when it's appropriate. But some won't. So you shouldn't go by the gasoline spec only, look for the diesel one. If you're driving a diesel, of course.

I should update my signature,


the current VW is a gasser. (we do have a 2015 Sprinter V6 that burns diesel)



2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB


Thanks for all the helpful replies.


I will keep a close eye on that oil level.
 
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meerschm

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I don't see the 504/507 oils doing any real harm when used in N. American gasoline VW's, but I'd look for the 502 spec when buying new oil. Not only is it more robust in the TBN dept., but it's also quite a bit cheaper.

based on some left to the reader internet searches.


seems TBN is not the be-all end all, and oils such as the 504/507 are formulated with additives not counted in the TBN.


I hear you on the cheaper.


https://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/vw_motor_oil_specifications_explained.php


the part where 504 is better than 502 in several areas might make it worth the extra cost.


(again, minding oilhammer's caution about excess oil use with a 5w30 vs 5w40 oil.)
 

2.2TDI

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I've been using castrol edge 5w40 502 spec and my car burns zero oil between changes... coming up on 7500 miles since my last change and not even a milliliter of oil burned
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Oh, look, yet another bad crankcase pressure regulator valve this morning! How unusual. Thought I'd get through the week without an EA888 fail. Nope.



Although to be fair, I've already had another one earlier this week, and there is an Audi A4 that was towed in overnight, so... :rolleyes:

Good news is, on the 2014 Passat pictured above, I caught it before it blew the rear main seal out. :cool:
 

jason_

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For such headache of a rear main, , should one assume periodic replacement of the regulator?

Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
 

oilhammer

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Certainly wouldn't hurt. It is not hard to replace, you can do it the same time you do spark plugs since you have to take the coils and harness loose to get at it anyway.

A couple weeks ago I called the dealer to order one, and they were OUT. And they keep five of them on the shelf. LOL.... Meaning, by 10am when I called, they had already exhausted their supply.

There are a couple versions, the one shown is the later "improved" version, which still fails.
 

meerschm

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Oh, look, yet another bad crankcase pressure regulator valve this morning! How unusual. Thought I'd get through the week without an EA888 fail. Nope.



Although to be fair, I've already had another one earlier this week, and there is an Audi A4 that was towed in overnight, so... :rolleyes:

Good news is, on the 2014 Passat pictured above, I caught it before it blew the rear main seal out. :cool:



is this the oil separator?


06K-103-495-AP
 

oilhammer

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Yes, that's it. This is the later type, looks a little different than the earlier ones. There are a couple late versions, too, depending on engine. The longitudinal applications (A4, A6, Q5, etc.) look a little different.

This one came off a 2012 Q5 earlier this week:



As trouble prone as these are, and this is now been going one for over a decade, you'd think they would have come up with something more durable.
 
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RabbitGTI

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Why does the crankcase pressure have to be "regulated"? Would figuring out a way to throw the valve in a dumpster and run a catch can cause the ECU to get it's panties in a twist due to emissions?
 

oilhammer

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Draft tubes have not been used in a LONG time. 1972 Beetles had them, 1973 did not. So it was somewhere around then.

The problem with these, and to some extent all VAG engines, is that they do not use the same type of breather system many other manufacturers do. They do not have an in inlet/outlet way of scavenging the crankcase vapors. So, name almost any other engine, they'll have an inlet... filtered air from the clean side of the air cleaner (so post filter), to go INTO the engine, then an outlet that is affixed to the intake manifold, usually with either a spring loaded valve, or some sort of orifice (commonly called a PCV valve).

So those engines always run with a potential negative to neutral pressure in the crankcase, although technically it varies based on engine load (vacuum), engine health (blowby past the rings), RPM, etc. But when you turbocharge things, you have situations where there is POSITIVE intake pressure (boost), so you cannot simply dump the PCV into the intake manifold. You have to have a way to regulate the scavenging. Switching over to porting it into the intake air stream is an easy way to do this. And TDIs are already like this, because they run unthrottled under most conditions, or all conditions, depending on which version you have. They do not run with intake vacuum.

The VAG non-turbo gasoline engines are also like the TDIs. And they generally do not have any problems save for the later 2.5L 5 cyl and that is easily fixed with a new valve cover. The problems arise from the turbo gas engines, and VAG seems to struggle with a surefire way to make the crankcase breather work reliably. The older engines, like my AWM Passat for instance, have an excessively complex mind numbing array of check valves, suction pump, bleeder valve, tubes, hoses... it's nuts complicated. And it is all quite fragile, and a problem with ANY of it results in either poor driveability and/or the ubiquitous MIL staring you in the face. Plus, much of it is buried under the intake manifold and is not easy to get to. The transverse cars add an extra layer of crap because they place the SAI pump in the way, so THAT has to come off to get at anything, too. 1.8t NBs are tight quarters!

However, those setups, while fragile and troublesome, never ever caused some catastrophic loss of oil. They greatly simplified this on the first of the DI turbo gas engines based on the old belt driven engines (BPY, for instance), and those crankcase pressure regulators, while they could fail, never caused any major problems either. And I applauded them for at least simplifying the design and doing away with a lot of the nonsense the earlier port injected turbo engines had.

But somehow, while they kept the simplified setup on the new EA888, they managed to create so many other fragile bits... the rear main seal design being one of them... that the simplified breather system gets overshadowed.

So yes, I recently rebuilt the breather system on my AWM, for the second time since it left the factory, and have done so on countless second gen 1.8t engines (AWM, AUG, AWP, AWW, etc.), and it sucks, the engine proper remains 100% intact and untouched. Head has never been off. Transmission never been removed. Timing belt, which is cake easy on the AWM (a little tougher on the transverse cars, but not awful) has been done twice, I'll gladly take that any day over worrying about some spontaneous chain explosion that could happen at seemingly any time past about 50k miles.

But yes, some sort of reengineered breather system (which the aftermarket does have some for some engines, but it obviously isn't EPA compliant) would make great strides in at least making ONE weak spot of the EA888 family more durable.

But that is hardly the only weak spot on these. :(
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Ha! I can't make this **** up... 2010 Passat wagon just showed up with a blown out rear main seal! JUST made it to 100k miles.

Still don't know what the Audi was towed in here for. LMAO, this is crazy. :p
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
The Audi's chain jumped. Although to its credit, it did almost make a 1/4 million. TOD: 243xxx miles. :(
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Not sure who is winning, but the EA888 engines certainly continue to lose. Yet another cracked water pump housing here this week, 2015 Golf with one of the 1.8L engines (and these have no aluminum aftermarket upgrade available yet...). They did issue a warranty extension on these, but it is only 8yr/80k mi, so not that long and many of them are on pump #3 by then anyway, LOL.
 
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