Malone Stage 0

So my friend recently picked up a 2003 Jetta TDI with 199K miles on the clock. It has a lot of mods done to it, but this is going to be a fuel sipper for him.

Right now it has an older Rocket Chip stage 3 and 5spd nozzles. It had an 01M auto trans but that was swapped out around 180K miles according to the PO. And the timing belt was done around 170K miles / Aug 2010.

But the turbo is leaking oil pretty bad. The outlet pipe to the intercooler is dripping with oil. So instead of buying a new turbo, my fiend would like to go with the Malone Stage 0 tune.

So I'm looking to compile a shopping list / to-do list and to help him do this.
The end goal is to make this no more expensive than a new VNT-15 turbo with install kit and potential replacement feed/return oil lines.

Intake: Is it better to get a drivers side PD intake or should I shop around for an SDI intake manifold? Who knows where I can pick up an SDI intake or order one from? My friend has a diesel geek race pipe sitting in a box that the PO never installed. Probably because he was worried about run away with a leaky seal in the turbo.

Camshaft: Should this be swapped out? Which one should to get from what model engine? Or would it be OK until the timing belt is done?

Exhaust: What year/model 4cyl VW should I look to acquire this from? Is there something that will bolt up to the down pipe? Or at least something that will bolt up to the cat-back section?

Fuel system: Cat 2 micron fuel filter, 5-spd nozzles, and 11mm pump. Is this a good combo? Or should the nozzles be changed out to down size them to the auto nozzles? Would a PP357 be a better good choice?

Things to delete / remove and questions about the Malone Stage 0:
Did SDI's have EGR systems? Does the Malone Stage 0 remove it and it is a matter of blocking things off? What do to do about the vacuum valves / lines?
What to do about the VNT actuator / valve line?
IMMO delete might be a good idea.
Would a dynamic idle be good with this? Does anybody know what the normal warm up time is for an SDI / Stage 0 when them temp is around 0 degrees F?

I might have him keep alll of the parts and everything removed just in case he hates the non-turbo feel of the car. So I might suggest he also buy a spare ECU to have done up with the Malone Stage 0.

And when removing the turbo, what size fittings will be needed to block of the feed/return oil line ports?

Any ideas as to what the fuel economy will be once this is done? My friend is ok with it being slow and not so peppy. He hopes going up 7%-12% grade hills will be smooth, maybe worst case 3rd gear to maintain 50mph?

Depending on how well this goes, I could see changing out the transmission in the future? Or re-gearing it? What gears ratios do the SDI's have? What about going with a gasser transmission and then installing the 6th-gear ad-on kit from a couple of vendors and selecting a decent highway 70mph overdrive gear?

Lastly, does anybody know if anybody on the forum has done a stage 0 tune? I searched, and only saw a few references to it and the vendor thread with an engine that might be getting a super charger.


Thank you,

My friend is waiting on moderator approval for his account. So he will jump in here soon.

~ryan

I sent you a PM. Btw seems to me that while the car would have enough power to be safe, it would be really slow. I'm guessing the HP would drop to 55-60 hp. Does malone say what power to expect?

I don't think the SDI get that much better MPG.

I think the cheapest, easiet route is to replace the turbo. When you factor in the cost of the tune, the intake, and exhaust the cost is going to be the same.

JamesTwo said:

I think the cheapest, easiet route is to replace the turbo.

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This...

the car is going to be slow as sh|t... they are already slow with 100hp/200tq and you will be way less then that

I would think putting a turbo back on would be more fuel efficient would it not? It really comes down to driving style.

JamesTwo said:

I sent you a PM. Btw seems to me that while the car would have enough power to be safe, it would be really slow. I'm guessing the HP would drop to 55-60 hp. Does malone say what power to expect?

I don't think the SDI get that much better MPG.

I think the cheapest, easiet route is to replace the turbo. When you factor in the cost of the tune, the intake, and exhaust the cost is going to be the same.

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Right on the money. Replace the turbo and be done with it.

The other problem with removing the turbo when trying to pull grades like that is that you will have to jump down several gears. You then raise your frictional losses in the engine with the higher revs and lower fuel economy.

If he doesn't want to get a new turbo why not just find a used turbo with good seals on the board?


The 11mm pump has a higher output pressure. This will increase fuel economy by better atomizing the fuel resulting in a cleaner burn. It also hurts fuel economy by requiring more power to turn it. I do not have any hard data on which effect is larger.

You could just get an alh/1z exhaust manifold or passat manifold, the matching bracket and build a custom exhaust off of that to connect with your stock stuff.

If you put gasser gears in you will be spinning more revs and again the frictional losses will lower fuel economy.



Is your friends goal to improve fuel economy, to save money or just to do something different? This will really determine how to go about this.

I've already been this route with Roger. He knows that the car will be slow and gutless. But it may be more cost effective in the long run for him to go stage 0.

Absolute worst case on the budget things here is what I told him:
Get some tubing and re-route the intake.
Pull the cartridge from the turbo, weld a block off plate to the manifold.
Disconnect VSV's and hoses for the N75/VNT actuator
Keep the ASV/EGR system intact.
Get the tune for Stage 0 with Dynamic EGR/Idle.
Plug/cap oil feed/return.

With this there will be a severe hit on intake ane exhaust air flow, but it will work. As to how much hp/ft lbs compared to an SDI intake and headers, I have no idea.

Roger is just un-easy about installing a used turbo. And a new/reman is fairly expensive along with the install kit (gaskets, copper pinch nuts, etc).

But at the end of the day, it's a car with 4 wheels. Not everyone is looking for performance. Just something good on the fuel economy for to and from work.

The 01M was already removed by the PO.

But without a turbo, he could make some money back if he chose to sell the cartridge (or whole turbo if he gets headers), IC, Oldman Intake, N75, VNT actuator, and etc.


Personally, I'm interested in the outcome of this project. I know this is the performance section. But I have yet to see where anybody has posted results of a stage 0 tune. Even in Malone's vendor thread, he had a pic of an engine with headers, but never followed up on how the project came out with the super charger. The stage 0 might be similar to BleachedBora's dual SMIC kit. Too expensive to justify the performance. So maybe that's why nobody has posted ABA type figures or acknowledge they bought it.

Lets ignore the lack of performance of doing this, and really figure out what is needed to make it happen. It could breathe a lot of life into TDI's with blown turbo's out there.

~ryan

I'm really interested in how the stage 0 turns out. I'm wondering if the economy will be the same. Less power, but may use more fuel to get places because you have to rev the hell out of it.

I say he gives it a try if he cant find a turbo cheap enough.

Here is a thread on the Stage 0 subject from Malone. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=315588

When he considers costs, is he factoring in the decreased resale value and difficulty selling it?

I dont know which turbo the car currently has, but either of these options (or one similar) seems a hell of a lot cheaper than downgrading to stage 0 or even a used turbo.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Garrett-Turbo-CHRA-GT1749V-VW-1-9-TDI-ALH-AHF-AUY-/300964075167

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Garrett-Turbo-CHRA-GT15V-VW-1-9-TDI-ALH-AHF-AUY-/281035465526

Or this too...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-VW-ALH-...etle-Turbocharger-Turbo-Rebuilt-/161115924577

I think your HP is going to be around 45-50. A stock SDI has 68 hp, but has a cam with more over lap and a tuned intake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDI_(engine)

With all due respect......

.....your friends an idiot.


He's taking an ALH with a RC3 Tune, nozzles & 11mm Injection pump. Thats the makings for incredible fuel mileage with a factory turbo.

Please, PLEASE! Don't turn that ALH into a farm tractor. Your going to spent more time & money try to fabricate parts and re-tuning the ECU than its worth. Whats to ole' sayin about stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime?

b1gmoose said:

Lets ignore the lack of performance of doing this, and really figure out what is needed to make it happen. It could breathe a lot of life into TDI's with blown turbo's out there.

~ryan

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I'm still unclear as to his motive to do this. I know it isnt your doing but there seems to be no logical thinking behind this. I understand that not everybody is centered around performance, but it seem like he is doing the opposite of normal and losing power AND fuel economy with this swap.

I think most people with blown turbos see it as a good chance to upgrade to a VNT17 that will last longer or to pick up a good used VNT15 for $300-350 and get back on the road. The stock turbo has been proven by several people to last 350k+ miles. I have one on a car now that has over this and only seemed to have a very small amount of oil in the intercooler that I just pulled for the first time to clean.

Pull the vac line off the actuator and drive the car and see how crappy it would be to drive the car without the turbo. The efficiency of the engine is directly related to the turbo. Without it not only will the car be gutless it will likely get much worse economy. Drain the intercooler and drive the car and see how bad the turbo is leaking. It boggles my mind as to your friends discomfort using a used turbo yet his lack of reluctance to completely fubar his car :/

Sell the VW and buy an 87 Corolla. Seriously.

KERMA said:

Sell the VW and buy an 87 Corolla. Seriously.

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I was going to suggest a 1994 Geo Prizm 5-speed. Great little cars!

Just please do it before destroying that VW and while the VW still has some trade in or resale value. This person really is driving the WRONG car for him.

This is the performance enhancement forum, not performance impairment.

An convert it to propane @ $1.89 a gallon the savings would be huge.

VeeDubTDI said:

I was going to suggest a 1994 Geo Prizm 5-speed. Great little cars!

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Screw that, buy a bicycle. He'll get some exercise too.

May we have an update on your Malone stage 0 project? . Did it work? What was the cost?

.

BeetlePD said:

May we have an update on your Malone stage 0 project? . Did it work? What was the cost?

.

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I doubt you're going to hear from the OP. The last time he posted was 11/16...

and the thread was dead 3 years before that.