GTD in 2015?

IndigoBlueWagon said:

That article is 18 months old, and that prediction has long since been squashed.

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I have heard that also, but there are several articles saying it will come although the latest I have found was last summer (8
months ago).

You say they have long been squashed, do you have any links?

I don't, but the owner of our local dealer (and our VW supplier) went to a sales meeting in Atlanta last October and sent me a list of the coming models through 2017. No GTD.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I don't, but the owner of our local dealer (and our VW supplier) went to a sales meeting in Atlanta last October and sent me a list of the coming models through 2017. No GTD.

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You would think with all the articles out there of them bringing the GTD to the states (there were literally dozens stating this, so it would be considered confirmed at least at one point in time that the GTD was indeed planned for sale in the US), that there would be SOME article out there stating that things have changed and there is no plan at this time for the GTD for the states.

You would need to dig a little deeper to see it, but most of those articles are just quoting each other.

I can't remember exactly when, but I did read on Autoblog that the GTD did an about face for North America. So it was reported, but since that's not a diesel specific forum it didn't cover it much.

The issue with the GTD, mentioned somewhere I think on this thread, is that the urea tank requires that a multi-link, rather than fully independent, rear suspension be used. This is contrary to the philosophy of the GTD which would want it to be fully equivalent to the GTI's chassis except of course for the engine.

Perhaps if VW ever succeeds in relocating the pee tank to return to a fully IRS, we may see a GTD if the more powerful engine can be made to pass local emissions.

Personally, I'd be just as happy with a free-revving GTI. With 258 lb-ft of torque, starting at a low TDI-like RPM, plus over 200 hp, it will out-hustle a GTD, at the price of a higher operating cost of course. But if I really want minimal costs, a TDI Trendline is really what one needs.

Myself, I'm thinking a TSI Comfortline with the tech package (bi-xenons and nav), but no sunroof. I don't like the pano roof. I want a light-coloured car because I live on a dirt road and I don't like the black roof, white car effect. Plus the pano roof on the GSW has been troublesome. I prefer the small-sized sunroof like on my current Golf. And at less than 20k km a year (12k miles) and keeping cars in the family for a very long time (hence resale is not a factor), a gasser makes more economic sense to me right now.

I might though also consider a base 2-door GTI (and retrofit bi-xenons).

PlaneCrazy said:

And at less than 20k km a year (12k miles) and keeping cars in the family for a very long time (hence resale is not a factor), a gasser makes more economic sense to me right now.(and retrofit bi-xenons).

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You realize this is a contradictory statement. "Right now" gasoline and diesel fuel pricing makes gasoline more appealing. But in a "very long time," such as looking back over the past 10 years, prices are much closer overall, and the diesel's superior FE makes for a lower cost per mile. Only real question mark is durability and repair costs, and neither the new TDI or the GTI are stellar in those categories. VW's gasoline engines are far from trouble free: I saw a post from you recently recalling your B6 Passat's oil consumption.

Not picking, just mentioning that it's difficult to find the right answer. For me I'm leaning towards keeping rotary pump MKIV cars running well past middle age. And maybe my B4, too. Only thing that's hard to fight off is rust, and it sounds like it's worse up there than here. Otherwise these older cars are more economical to run, even with repair costs.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

You realize this is a contradictory statement. "Right now" gasoline and diesel fuel pricing makes gasoline more appealing. But in a "very long time," such as looking back over the past 10 years, prices are much closer overall, and the diesel's superior FE makes for a lower cost per mile. Only real question mark is durability and repair costs, and neither the new TDI or the GTI are stellar in those categories. VW's gasoline engines are far from trouble free: I saw a post from you recently recalling your B6 Passat's oil consumption.

Not picking, just mentioning that it's difficult to find the right answer. For me I'm leaning towards keeping rotary pump MKIV cars running well past middle age. And maybe my B4, too. Only thing that's hard to fight off is rust, and it sounds like it's worse up there than here. Otherwise these older cars are more economical to run, even with repair costs.

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Right now, as in "I drive less than 20k km/12k miles per year", and am likely to do so for the foreseeable future as I've decided to retire early. The TSI and TDI have exactly 1 L/100 km consumption difference on the highway according to Natural Resources Canada. Plus the TSI runs on RUG. Granted a GTI needs super to give its full potential, and it runs about 1.5-2 L/100 km higher consumption.

As for diesel prices... I've been following them for the last few years. On average diesel is higher. This winter, running anywhere from 20-30 cents per liter higher than RUG. I've never seen it more than 10 cents cheaper in summer. If I factor that in, the cost per km of a TSI vs a TDI comes pretty close. Throw in the higher cost of the TDI and it starts to make little sense except for range, and resale value. However we now keep a car in the family typically for up to 15 years and 300k km, so resale is no longer an issue.

As for reliability... well the 2.0T may have consumed oil (I wasn't alone) but I lived with it. I never had to sink major $ into it, in 160k km (100k miles). However that's not been the case for my TDIs:

-MAF, coolant migration on 99.5 TDI (I actually got rid of it before the coolant migration; the subsequent owner had the problem and the car only had 80k km)
-Balance shaft module on '05 B5.5 TDI (I paid $1k, VW paid $3k)
-HPFP on '11 Golf (VW paid half)
-Intercooler on '11 Golf which didn't fix the problem.
-And now VW isn't wanting to cover rust perforation on the right rear door of our B5.5; the estimate to replace the door is $2300 (but admittedly it's nothing to do with it being a TDI, but it is part of the overall VW customer CARE disaster of an experience); I've just sent VW a demand letter threatening legal action over that one).

Bottom line I've been out-of-pocket for way more $ on my TDIs than on my 2.0T!

I might look at other brands next time around. Some of the cars on my list include a Mazda 3 hatchback, base Honda Accord (still available with 6-mt, and lots of kit for the money), Honda Fit, the new Honda HRV coming out soon, to name a few. But dang I still really like Golfs.

PlaneCrazy,

You also forget calmer 1,000 rpm quieter on the highway, and goes up mountains like, well, CRAZY on the diesel side.

Just sayin'

BeetleGo said:

PlaneCrazy,
You also forget calmer 1,000 rpm quieter on the highway, and goes up mountains like, well, CRAZY on the diesel side.
Just sayin'

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Sorry to disappoint you but the 2.0T, even though it revved about 800 rpm higher, was smoother and quieter than any TDI I've ever owned. So quiet I had trouble shifting it by ear and remembering which gear I was in.

And with 207 lb-ft of torque starting at 1750 RPM, I never had any issues going up mountains like crazy, in 6th. That torque BTW could be maintained all the way up to 5500 rpm. It fact the slightly shorter gearing on the 2.0T meant that a lot of hills that require a downshift into 5th on my TDI did not require it on the 2.0T. Note, I'm talking unmodified engines in both cases. I've never done engine mods in my cars.

Other than the fuel economy hit, the engine was way more enjoyable to drive than ANY TDI I've ever owned. They had their issues though (cam follower, which didn't affect me, and oil consumption, which did, plus some recalls including for ignition coils).

The fact is, small-displacement turbocharged direct-injection gasoline engines have very diesel-like low-end torque (the 1.8 TSI is now rated at 199 lb-ft), but with a much better high-end. Plus the 1.8 TSI is optimized to run on RUG.

I would have kept the Passat wagon but for three years I went back to a monster commute (100 km each way each day); it had 160k km, and it was a good time to trade and at that point a TDI made perfect sense. I'd do it again if in the same situation.

But now I'm not in the same situation and indeed have to watch my spending, so when I do trade, one thing is for sure I'll be making a very careful cost analysis (but still not convinced to go Asian... a guy has his pride already!).

I've had a few rentals over the last year that had the 1.8l TSI. I agree with Planecrazy, the TSI pulls and feels a lot like my diesels. They have been some of the more enjoyable rentals, except for the 2014 Mustang ragtop and the 2014 Challenger.

Ok. Okokok!

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I don't, but the owner of our local dealer (and our VW supplier) went to a sales meeting in Atlanta last October and sent me a list of the coming models through 2017. No GTD.

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Was an all wheel drive GSW on the list...???

workcar said:

Was an all wheel drive GSW on the list...???

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Yes, late 2016 release of a 2017 model. It didn't specifically say a TDI would be offered with AWD, but the dealer owner thought it would.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Yes, late 2016 release of a 2017 model. It didn't specifically say a TDI would be offered with AWD, but the dealer owner thought it would.

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With 8 out of 10 JSW's being sold with a TDI, one would hope that TDI would be an option for the AWD GSW...(AND A MANUAL)

Dealers really are the last people that have any idea what's actually going to show up in their showroom.

Dealer employees, yes. But dealership owners to have a line to VW US and know as much as they do. Which, admittedly, may not be a whole lot.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I don't, but the owner of our local dealer (and our VW supplier) went to a sales meeting in Atlanta last October and sent me a list of the coming models through 2017. No GTD.

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Thanks for the information IndigoBlueWagon, did he have any information on the possibility of Volkswagen building a 2 door Golf TDI?

No 2-door TDI in the offing. Not enough demand, they say. I have a '12, and I think it's the last year they sold them here.

Thanks IBW was expecting that.

Hell, they haven't even promised a 2-door Golf R.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

No 2-door TDI in the offing. Not enough demand, they say. I have a '12, and I think it's the last year they sold them here.

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I have a '13, with 6MT, no less. Bought it from Chris, yes, there was something special about that guy.

Bring the GTD in the wagon with AWD to the US and I will buy one in a heartbeat.........

Geist296 said:

Bring the GTD in the wagon with AWD to the US and I will buy one in a heartbeat.........

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We've been asking for this car forever. It will never happen.

Personally I'd take the Alltrack Jetta (Or Passat) in AWD + TDI flavour.

I'd settle for the Tigaun 4Motion TDI.

Well no diesel for the Alltrack, not really surprised. Although I'll gladly take it with the 1.8T.

VW's U.S. chief, Michel Horn, confirmed Tuesday night the car won't be available with the popular diesel engine. The wagon configuration with AWD makes it very difficult to package all the fuel system hardware that a diesel needs to pass clean-air regulations in the U.S., he said.

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So it's because the regulations.

kareen21 said:

So it's because the regulations.

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It's because VW isn't going to drop the cash on the redesign for the urea tank until it's required in the EU as well. Once the EU requires the urea tank, you'll see it over here. Or at least that's my guess.

VW's said that the urea tank on the GTD will go where the spare tire goes.

For the US, they don't want to ditch the spare tire (or the Fender audio option at the top of the line - that's where the subwoofer goes on Golfs).

As the GTD's reason for not coming here is the IRS and the urea tank interfering with one another (and VW wouldn't be dumb enough to sell a twist beam GTD), and the AWD system also requires the IRS...