Crank but no start

Hi guys,

I recently picked up an 01 VW Jetta TDI auto. Car only has 154k on it. I had shopping around for one for months and this appeared to be incredibly solid and had receipts for everything. When I went to see car it started a bit slow, I figured it had been from sitting for a week. Bought car after reviewing receipts and driving. Car ran perfectly the whole hour drive home.

A few days later the starter completely failed. Month old Bosch reman starter, seemed odd to me. Replaced starter with another Bosch reman, and drove for a couple days. About 5 days after replacing starter the car wouldn't start on a cold morning. I checked everything and charged battery. I came to the conclusion of glow plugs, but later the next day I got it running without replacing them. Car had a rougher idle than usual that I attributed to the failing belt tensioner. Drove car down the road for 5-10 miles and it dies. I was going 60 mph at the time. Came back later to two home and I got it to run for 10 seconds and sounded like death, then proceeded to die.

Fuel gauge was at 1/2 so i figured that wasn't it. Had a code reader with me and pulled a P1248 code for Injection Pump Timing. Injection pump was replaced around 2 years ago so hoping that isn't the issue. Brought it home and tried to start and next day burnt up the 2nd Bosch starter. I was not hard on it at all bc I have been very nervous after first starter burning up.

Replaced starter again with a Carquest, added some fuel, reset code, and tried cranking. 1 click and nothing. I'm at a complete loss at this point. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

What belt tensioner are you talking about being bad? Hopefully you mean the serpentine belt tensioner.

Check the timing belt. Then find VCDS and get a real scan on the car.

Belt tensioner for serpentine has been squeaking lately and is about shot. I have a new one, just haven't put it on yet. Will try to check timing belt tomorrow. And not sure if anybody has a VCDS near me?

whitedog said:

What belt tensioner are you talking about being bad? Hopefully you mean the serpentine belt tensioner.

Check the timing belt. Then find VCDS and get a real scan on the car.

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Belt tensioner for serpentine has been squeaking lately and is about shot. I have a new one, just haven't put it on yet. Will try to check timing belt tomorrow. And not sure if anybody has a VCDS near me?
Silvertdi01 is offline Report Post

The engine will run without the Serp belt.

Seems there are far bigger issues going on!

My 2000 Jetta with over 360k miles on it sits for a week or longer and it will start right up. So, sitting for a week should not be an issue ... but, see below.

It is not unusual to get several bad reman starters.. I'm on the 3rd one for my gasser 89 Vanagon, in about 8 weeks.

The click, we have to assume has something to do with the starter. So, that needs to be addressed before continuing to attempt to start. But, there are other things too.

Start by popping off the TB cover to see what might be going on in there. You also should remove the Valve Cover and pop out the view plug at the flywheel to confirm timing of the Cam and Crankshaft.. Considering your story, these items need to be checked.

It's possible the Injection Pump may be leaking fuel from one or more places.. thus, the hard start when you picked up the car. So, if the TB belt is okay, timing of the Crank and Cam is okay, you should try bleeding the injectors..... flush out or vacuum out any air in the fueling system down stream from the filter, to the IP and beyond.

Others will have plenty of suggestions....

Are you sure you got the right starter, not one for a gasser? This is only a secondary issue: just wanted to check.

UhOh said:

Are you sure you got the right starter, not one for a gasser? This is only a secondary issue: just wanted to check.

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Yes, and just checked the timing belt. Looks as though I was 10 miles away from utter destruction. Timing belt had chunks missing out of it. I think the water pump locked up. This would also explain why I keep burning through starters.

Advice on which kit to buy for timing belt replacement with water pump and rollers?

AndyBees said:

The engine will run without the Serp belt.

Seems there are far bigger issues going on!

My 2000 Jetta with over 360k miles on it sits for a week or longer and it will start right up. So, sitting for a week should not be an issue ... but, see below.

It is not unusual to get several bad reman starters.. I'm on the 3rd one for my gasser 89 Vanagon, in about 8 weeks.

The click, we have to assume has something to do with the starter. So, that needs to be addressed before continuing to attempt to start. But, there are other things too.

Start by popping off the TB cover to see what might be going on in there. You also should remove the Valve Cover and pop out the view plug at the flywheel to confirm timing of the Cam and Crankshaft.. Considering your story, these items need to be checked.

It's possible the Injection Pump may be leaking fuel from one or more places.. thus, the hard start when you picked up the car. So, if the TB belt is okay, timing of the Crank and Cam is okay, you should try bleeding the injectors..... flush out or vacuum out any air in the fueling system down stream from the filter, to the IP and beyond.

Others will have plenty of suggestions....

Click to expand...

Almost positive it's the timig belt, water pump and such that are the issue. Could possibly explain why i keep burning through starters constantly too. And checked injection pump, it isn't leaking.

Before removing the starter, check the static timing. This means with the crank at TDC #1, the cam lock and injection pump lock will go in.

Yeah, do what Whitedog suggested. You need to know for sure where the Crankshaft and Camshaft relationship is.

I'm fearing the worst. Chunks gone (teeth missing) most likely means the Crankshaft is ahead of the Camshaft (jumped time), which means that the pistons have been hitting Exhaust Valves. Combine that with a locked up water pump, yep, could explain starters going kaput..

whitedog said:

Before removing the starter, check the static timing. This means with the crank at TDC #1, the cam lock and injection pump lock will go in.

Click to expand...

Not sure how to do this, completely out of my element with TDIs as I'm used to Chryslers. You mean try turning over manually? And if so, where at on these?

AndyBees said:

Yeah, do what Whitedog suggested. You need to know for sure where the Crankshaft and Camshaft relationship is.

I'm fearing the worst. Chunks gone (teeth missing) most likely means the Crankshaft is ahead of the Camshaft (jumped time), which means that the pistons have been hitting Exhaust Valves. Combine that with a locked up water pump, yep, could explain starters going kaput..

Click to expand...

It's ran like a dream while it's ran until the day it died, no knocks or such. It only sounded like death for the 10 seconds I tried starting it up, so I'm hoping what you've described isn't the case. I'm still in high school so funds are kinda short.

whitedog said:

Before removing the starter, check the static timing. This means with the crank at TDC #1, the cam lock and injection pump lock will go in.

Click to expand...

Did what you suggested after looking, and it barely moved, and now won't move at all when I manually crank it

Yep! The TB has jumped time... "a" piston is jammed up against an exhaust valve.

Imagine this: The Exhaust Valve is closing as the piston strokes up pushing out exhaust gases. The Exhaust Valve slaps shut slightly before the piston makes Top Dead Center. So, if the Crankshaft Sprocket (with about 9 teeth making contact) jumps on the TB, the Pistons are all now ahead of the Camshaft. Thus, depending on how many teeth it jumped, the motor might still run albeit pistons are hitting the Exhaust Valves. When you shut the engine down, there will be enough resistance to keep the starter from rotating the engine......... in your case, the resistance is such that you cannot rotate it manually!

The head must come off now... You have at least 4 bad exhaust valves, 4 bad lifters and hopefully, the pistons are okay as well as the rods.

Not necessarily. If he's turning it with the plugs in with a short wrench.

I fear the worst too but there's hope. The way it quit running a little at a time and didn't die outright makes me wonder.

How are you rotating the engine? Should be using a socket and breaker bar on the crank bolt. NOT the cam or pump bolts or sprockets.

Are you hitting a hard stop or does it just get difficult to turn?

KLXD said:

Not necessarily. If he's turning it with the plugs in with a short wrench.

I fear the worst too but there's hope. The way it quit running a little at a time and didn't die outright makes me wonder.

How are you rotating the engine? Should be using a socket and breaker bar on the crank bolt. NOT the cam or pump bolts or sprockets.

Are you hitting a hard stop or does it just get difficult to turn?

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I believe it's hard. I used a decent long 3/8" drive rachet. And it got so hard that I was risking busting the ratchet. I will hit with a breaker bar tomorrow and let you know. And I'm with you, fingers crossed that it isn't trashed when it's pulled apart!

If you cannot rotate the engine with a sizeable rachet, well there is a piston pushing up against an Exhaust Valve. You might be able to compress the Lifter using a breaker bar. But, on the next Exhaust Stroke, same thing (1/2 rotation of crankshaft)..

To be sure that you aren't turning against compression, you can remove the glow plugs. It takes a deep 10 MM, 1/4 drive socket and extension. Then you can be sure and you have started to learn more about how your car works. YouTube it. I'm sure there is a video on replacing the glow plugs.

No experience with this. Wouldn't it make ugly noise cranking it with the cam late?

AndyBees said:

If you cannot rotate the engine with a sizeable rachet, well there is a piston pushing up against an Exhaust Valve. You might be able to compress the Lifter using a breaker bar. But, on the next Exhaust Stroke, same thing (1/2 rotation of crankshaft)..

Click to expand...

Best way to describe the feeling was notchy up until it wouldn't turn. When I get home later I will throw a breaker bar at it. I'm just praying currently it didn't damage any pistons.

About three years ago, a guy brought his automatic 03 TDI to me to set the timing (hauled on a rollback). Someone did a TB job for him that did not know anything about TDIs. I point out that it was an automatic because the TDC mark is a bit confusing on automatics.

Anyway, it was off at least two teeth on the TB. I could rotate the engine with a long break bar. At each exhaust stroke, it was very tight but would rotate past...... obviously squeezing the lifter down considerably. I got it going and HIGHLY recommended that the guy at least replace those four lifters.

He replaced all lifters and is still driving the car. But, keep in mind, it was never started in the out-of-time situation, only attempted to be cranked over with the starter. So, obviously the Exhaust Valves were not damaged... and probably not the Lifters considering the engine was not started up.

AndyBees said:

About three years ago, a guy brought his automatic 03 TDI to me to set the timing (hauled on a rollback). Someone did a TB job for him that did not know anything about TDIs. I point out that it was an automatic because the TDC mark is a bit confusing on automatics.

Anyway, it was off at least two teeth on the TB. I could rotate the engine with a long break bar. At each exhaust stroke, it was very tight but would rotate past...... obviously squeezing the lifter down considerably. I got it going and HIGHLY recommended that the guy at least replace those four lifters.

He replaced all lifters and is still driving the car. But, keep in mind, it was never started in the out-of-time situation, only attempted to be cranked over with the starter. So, obviously the Exhaust Valves were not damaged... and probably not the Lifters considering the engine was not started up.

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I checked with a breaker bar and I can move it. Difficult, but I can move it.

I really think that you need to pull the glow plugs so that you can be sure that you aren't turning against compression.

I just did a TB job on my daughters 01 Beetle and using a 19mm socket and a 15 inch 3/8 ratshet I turned her engine over at the crank 4 times to verify I installed the belt correctly. It turned over fairly easily and as the compression builds it gets harder and then all of a sudden it's easy again. No breaker bar just a 3/8's ratchet.

If you've got a big breaker on it and it's really difficult you should check the static timing.


Starting on about page 20 it shows how to set the engine at TDC. To get it there you will have to remove the valve cover. Which you will need to do anyway to inspect the lifters for spider cracks.

http://pics3.tdiclub.com/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf

I like this one also and it shows the difference between the timing marks on the flywheel for the manual vs automatic transmissions.

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/a...nt-vw-jetta-tdi-golf-beetle-1998-2003-part-1/

You can check the timing without taking anything except the valve cover and the upper plastic TB cover off.

Tdijarhead said:

I just did a TB job on my daughters 01 Beetle and using a 19mm socket and a 15 inch 3/8 ratshet I turned her engine over at the crank 4 times to verify I installed the belt correctly. It turned over fairly easily and as the compression builds it gets harder and then all of a sudden it's easy again. No breaker bar just a 3/8's ratchet.

If you've got a big breaker on it and it's really difficult you should check the static timing.


Starting on about page 20 it shows how to set the engine at TDC. To get it there you will have to remove the valve cover. Which you will need to do anyway to inspect the lifters for spider cracks.

http://pics3.tdiclub.com/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf

I like this one also and it shows the difference between the timing marks on the flywheel for the manual vs automatic transmissions.

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/a...nt-vw-jetta-tdi-golf-beetle-1998-2003-part-1/

You can check the timing without taking anything except the valve cover and the upper plastic TB cover off.

Click to expand...

I started to pull the valve cover off today only to find one of the rear hex bolts is stripped. Great. Not entirely sure how I'm gonna get it out

Silvertdi01 said:

I started to pull the valve cover off today only to find one of the rear hex bolts is stripped. Great. Not entirely sure how I'm gonna get it out

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I have used a pounded one of these into them before and turned it out, it usually does not need a ton of grab.

http://www.harborfreight.com/media/...b33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_24909.jpg

(the flat head one).

Other option would be drill the head off.

Extractors are another option https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/9-pc-3-8-in-dr-metric-bolt-extractor-set/A-p8444176e

steve6 said:

I have used a pounded one of these into them before and turned it out, it usually does not need a ton of grab.

http://www.harborfreight.com/media/...b33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_24909.jpg

(the flat head one).

Other option would be drill the head off.

Extractors are another option https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/9-pc-3-8-in-dr-metric-bolt-extractor-set/A-p8444176e

Click to expand...

I thought about taking an angle grinder and cutting a slit so I could attempt using a flat head screwdriver, but I don't know that it's big enough. Access is the main issue here.

Get an old 12 point junk socket SAE or Metric that's to small to fit over the bolt head and pound it on.

Sometimes that works. I lost my wheel lock tool and found that a 3/4 inch 12 point socket almost fit over my wheel lock studs. I made it fit with a 3lb hammer, then I put the air wrench on it and zipped those wheel locks off and threw them in the trash.

If you're going to do any pounding I would be a little more careful up there on the head. Probably not a good idea to use a 3lb hammer.

I think the angle grinder is a good idea too. Just don't grind a hole in your valve cover.

Tdijarhead said:

Get an old 12 point junk socket SAE or Metric that's to small to fit over the bolt head and pound it on.

Sometimes that works. I lost my wheel lock tool and found that a 3/4 inch 12 point socket almost fit over my wheel lock studs. I made it fit with a 3lb hammer, then I put the air wrench on it and zipped those wheel locks off and threw them in the trash.

If you're going to do any pounding I would be a little more careful up there on the head. Probably not a good idea to use a 3lb hammer.

I think the angle grinder is a good idea too. Just don't grind a hole in your valve cover.

Click to expand...

I JB welded it with the right bit in it. Gonna let it sit overnight and see what happens. Pounding on a head makes me nervous. Unfortunately, I think another is stripped and it's underneath whatever the egr connects to. So this should be fun. Also, you know where to buy new bolts? NAPA doesn't even carry them.

Metalmanparts.com

http://metalmanparts.com/product.sc?productId=420&categoryId=-1