Great article on reason for MBZ Bluetec problems

ApriliaNut

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I have seen this thread, and saw the article before it was even posted here.

Still waiting to see a single newer MB diesel engine in our shop with any major problem. And I see plenty with some pretty high miles:



I have four Sprinters in my care with well over 500k miles now.

The only problems I see are:

occasional sensor (NOx, O2, EGT, or DPF pressure), EGR valve, DEF tank heater, and a couple cracked DPFs (flex section) and if not corrected right away they can leak in such a way as to shoot out a jet of hot exhaust when the DPF regens that melts the DEF injector and line.

Engine proper, though? Nothing. Zip. Nada. No leaks, no noises, no nothing. Oil change with Pentosin 5w40 HP2 (a 229.51 compliant oil) and Mann filter every 10k miles. Alternator clutch pulley once in a while, glow plug once in a while, accessory belt idler pulley bearing once in a while, etc. But these are all just the 3.0L V6 diesel, as the 2.1L 4cyl (like mine) are still too new. But a guy on the Sprinter forum already has over 400k miles on his 2.1L with zero issues, and so far none of the ones I see have had any issues either but the highest mileage one for me is only around 60k. The V6s I see all have 150k+ miles on them before they've needed anything.

Now I cannot say how these engines do in the smaller vehicles (M-class, E-class, Jeeps, etc.) but I would assume if they can push a big box like a Sprinter around for half a million miles they should be just fine with the others.

I did have one HPFP on one of the V6s, around 470k miles IIRC. We just put a new pump on, and it is still to this day on the road.

And I did replace a transmission once on one, it was a 2007 DRW model with a giant vocational box on it. And it had over 100k hard miles on it at the time. That is the only NAG MB trans I have ever seen fail. See a few leaky pass through electrical connectors on them, easily fixed.

I really have no idea what the author of that article is talking about, because I certainly have never seen it. Maybe sitting in all that SoCal traffic is not beneficial, who knows.

I know my experience here made my choice of buying a new Sprinter, in particular with the 2.1L, a pretty easy choice. And it is an amazing little engine. The few people that I have taken for a ride in it are astonished when I tell them it is a 4cyl. :D
Thanks for the contribution Oilhammer. Much appreciated!
 

turbobrick240

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If you Google mb bluetec problems, this one guy pretty much owns the issue. If they really were the turds he claims they are, you'd think there'd be many others reasserting his claims.
 

ApriliaNut

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IndigoBlueWagon

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One data point. Owner's claim about checking oil is suspect, as is dealer's claim about low oil causing the seizure. I think there's parts of this story we aren't hearing.

Cars do break. Mercedes has had a less than stellar reputation for some of its engines for decades. Think of rod-bending 6 cylinder diesels in the early 90s. Failing water pumps on 3 liter gasoline engines. Warping heads on 6 cylinder diesels in '87. ALDA. Stupid diesel catalysts that everyone deleted.
 

ssamalin

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I have the only 4cyl CLEAN diesel in a large car that drives like a dream. I'm not worried that MB had problems 20 years ago. Today they are using new tech. They learned from their past offerings.
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turbobrick240

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Yeah, there will always be people who try to squeeze out 30k mile change intervals on cheap jiffy lube 10w30. One, two, or even of dozens of bluetec owners with issues doesn't amount to much. I do agree with the Stephens guy that all the emissions equipment adds a layer of complexity and failure points that previous diesels didn't suffer from. I disagree that the mb 229.51/52 specs are crap and that the bluetec engines are crap as well.
 

truman

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Anecdotally, the reports of serious failures at MBWorld and benzworld would strongly suggest that the OM642 engine has design problems. I wouldn't own one at this point. Hopefully, the 4cyl is more reliable. I don't see their other engines having major issues other than 06&07 3.5 gassers/ balance shaft modules.
 

turbobrick240

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Every engine has design problems. That is inherent in anything built by humans. These forums always attract folks with problems, and they are usually quite vocal. Our tdi' s have had design flaws since day one, yet that doesn't make them junk either.
 

ApriliaNut

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Yeah, there will always be people who try to squeeze out 30k mile change intervals on cheap jiffy lube 10w30. One, two, or even of dozens of bluetec owners with issues doesn't amount to much. I do agree with the Stephens guy that all the emissions equipment adds a layer of complexity and failure points that previous diesels didn't suffer from. I disagree that the mb 229.51/52 specs are crap and that the bluetec engines are crap as well.
Well, in the link above I posted please read or re-read post #215 from the guy who works for a huge multi national well known though unstated oil company.
Paraphrasing: the 229.51/52 oil is crap AND he couldn't believe the material they used for the oil cooler gasket buried deep in the engine which guaranteed eventual leakage...then look at the photo...which would seem to prove the oil is junk..either that or the dealer NEVER changed the oil when the owner brought it in for said change at "by the book" intervals.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Anecdotally, the reports of serious failures at MBWorld and benzworld would strongly suggest that the OM642 engine has design problems.
Doubt it. Are you aware of how many of these engines are in service around the world, in how many platforms? A few issues posted on MBWorld doesn't indicate "design problems." I think the OM642 is one of Mercedes' more robust engines.
 

ApriliaNut

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Doubt it. Are you aware of how many of these engines are in service around the world, in how many platforms? A few issues posted on MBWorld doesn't indicate "design problems." I think the OM642 is one of Mercedes' more robust engines.

Indeed the fact that there are so many in use around the world without problems is little solace to those who have done everything by the book and still had catastrophic engine failures.

I think the bigger story is the attitude MBZ and their dealerships take when one does fail. They spend all this $$ on image as shown in their TV advertising, beat their chest about all their patents since the Garden of Eden, yet the won't do diddly squat for those individuals that do have a legit case - no good faith accommodation for discounted engines, labor, materials - NOTHING - to the point of saying "go F*** yourself".
 
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truman

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turbobrick240

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Well, in the link above I posted please read or re-read post #215 from the guy who works for a huge multi national well known though unstated oil company.
Paraphrasing: the 229.51/52 oil is crap AND he couldn't believe the material they used for the oil cooler gasket buried deep in the engine which guaranteed eventual leakage...then look at the photo...which would seem to prove the oil is junk..either that or the dealer NEVER changed the oil when the owner brought it in for said change at "by the book" intervals.
I found no mention of 229.51/52 in post #215. Frankly, I'm not impressed by that poster anyhow- far more self proclaimed experts out there than actual experts. If you want some real insight on the 229.51/52 specs, do some research on BITOG.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Well like I said, the only problems I see are related to the ancillary emissions compliance components by and large, nothing at all with the engine proper. And the early 3.0L was not SCR, just a DPF.

I have dealt with the "black death" on an older 2.7L Sprinter a couple times, but again the engine itself seems very good.
 

truman

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Mercedes specifies a fleece oil filter. The one on my gasser is about 1/2 size of an ALH oil filter. I'm unsure of the physical size of the diesel version. Most of the after market filters are paper. I read reports of these paper filters collapsing after sometimes short intervals on inspection. Could these filters be causing excess oil pressure, blown seals, excess oil heat, and oil break down?
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Mercedes specifies fleece filters for some applications and paper for others.
 

ApriliaNut

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I found no mention of 229.51/52 in post #215. Frankly, I'm not impressed by that poster anyhow- far more self proclaimed experts out there than actual experts. If you want some real insight on the 229.51/52 specs, do some research on BITOG.
See post #170 as to his credentials. and scan through the thread for his other replies. He does seem to be the real deal to me..towards the end the thread morphs into MBZ 'lifetime" transmissions and tranny fluids.

RE: 229.51/52 oils...my mistake...I could've sworn I'd read where Glyn had disparaged the recommended MBZ oils but looks like I am mistaken.
My apologies...gotta ingest more brain vitamins! :cool::D:eek:
 
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