Timing Belt from Dealer, how many miles?

So, I've got this 2000 TDI, 5 speed. I have owned it since 2011.
I have a huge stack of work done from this car when I bought it.

It shows the VW Dealer changed the timing belt at 151k miles. It currently has 229k....so 78K on this timing belt. The service was done in december or 2009.

So is this timing belt basically due now or is it 100k interval?




I just put DLC1019's in setup by drivebiwire and man it runs sooo much better. Has me thinking Malone Stage II.

Do you have a receipt that lists the parts they changed?

The dealers, IIRC, use the 80k mile timing belt. I would not drive it too much more w/o replacing it. You mention a recent nozzle upgrade; I would definitely get the timing belt done asap if I were you.

belome said:

Do you have a receipt that lists the parts they changed?

Click to expand...

Yes I have the list.

tooth belt: 038109119D
tensioner: 038109243N
Water Pump: 038121011AX

plus coolant, and a washer of some sort.
The timing was pretty far retarded when I checked in VCDS, so much so it wasn't showing up, which probably indicates belt stretch I would guess.

Nevada_TDI said:

The dealers, IIRC, use the 80k mile timing belt. I would not drive it too much more w/o replacing it. You mention a recent nozzle upgrade; I would definitely get the timing belt done asap if I were you.

Click to expand...

Yeah, the nozzles were original and really sooted up. Winter starts were much harder. I knew this was on the list next, but sounds like it may be like now. Still cheaper than a new car/car payment I guess.

Inspect the belt and stuff, schedule a TB in the next 10k miles. I wouldn't wait the full 100k on a 17 year old car.

They used the old style belt. No idea why dealers do this (no idea why they even continue to offer the old style belt ). But they cannot think outside the box, they just look up things by VIN.

What they SHOULD have done is just installed the "toothed belt repair kit", which consists of the long life belt, tensioner, and all the rollers. And it usually costs about the same as the defunct belt and tensioner alone.

So yeah, get it all redone correctly with the newest stuff.

00Jetta00 said:

Yes I have the list.
tooth belt: 038109119D
tensioner: 038109243N
Water Pump: 038121011AX
plus coolant, and a washer of some sort.
The timing was pretty far retarded when I checked in VCDS, so much so it wasn't showing up, which probably indicates belt stretch I would guess.

Click to expand...

Sounds like another dealer mark and pray timing belt replacement instead of following the factory procedure to the letter and resulting in severely retarded timing.

Other concerns:
The dealer probably reused instead of replacing the 4 one-time use "MUST REPLACE WITH NEW" engine mount bolts, which absolutely MUST be replaced with NEW bolts. These bolts are stretch bolts (TTY) and can be safely used only ONCE. This means the bolts are in danger of breaking and the engine falling out if these are reused instead of replaced with new bolts. There have been cases of dealers reusing these bolts and breaking a few thousand miles after the TB change and dealer deny all responsibility.

From your list, the dealer probably did not replace the two small rollers and one large roller that guide the TB through its rather convoluted path. The rollers can easily make it to the first TB change but its doubtful that they will make it to the next TB change.

The 3rd bolt on the engine mount bracket which must come out during the TB change is one that is somewhat hidden and easily missed when reinstalling the bracket. When this bolt is forgotten or not properly tightened, stress on the other two bolts will eventually crack the block at these points and can tear a hole in the block and trash the engine.

From past experience with 4 TB changes done by TDIclub gurus in my 02 Golf TDI (sold in 2010 at only 361k miles), it is worthwhile to replace the engine mount bracket at each TB change. Two of the one-time use engine mount bolts go into this bracket to secure the bracket to the engine mount. At my 2nd TB change at 160k miles, metal was pouring out of the bolt holes as the threads were failing and there was nothing left to hold the bolts. Since that encounter, I suggest ALWAYS replace the engine mount bracket during a TB change. It adds close to $100 to the TB change but it's well worth it to ensure the engine won't fall out.

The FACTORY procedure MUST be followed TO THE LETTER to ensure a successful outcome for the TB change and setting the timing afterwards. No "Mark and Pray" shortcuts are allowed as they are totally wrong and result in retarded cam and pump timing. The timing becomes further retarded during the next TB change if the M&P method is used again and the engine is in danger of pistons kissing valves at this point, not to mention running poorly and being hard to start when cold. Following the factory procedure to the letter guarantees pump and cam timing are set correctly 100% of the time. When the factory procedure is followed, the pump and cam will be indexed exactly as they were when the engine first left the FACTORY.

I recommend NOT going to a dealer and getting the car to one of the TDIclub gurus on this site who works on TDIs for a living. It's worth driving some distance to get there if that's what it takes. They use only the correct tools and use one of the well researched TB change kits having all new bolts, rollers, water pump, TB, and everything needed. No shortcuts are used and factory procedures are followed to the letter. It's well worth it to know the job will be done right.

Good luck and Welcome to TDIclub.

Most people recognize that a timing belt has a mileage limit, but do not know it has a TIME limit of 5 years.

We recently replaced a timing belt on a 2003 Beetle with 45,000 miles. I would not start the car until the belt was changed. The cracks in the timing belt were to the point that the cogs were ready to fall off.

The other one that comes to mind is someone who was waiting until the odometer hit 100k. At 98,000 miles, the timing belt blew. He lived in Louisiana, and the 5 year limit is even more important in a hot climate. It was the first timing belt job he was going to do on a car that was 9 years old...4 years past life expectancy.

Now, when it comes to timing belts, I would not suggest short-changing your timing belt kit. There is a set of non-reusable engine mount bolts you need, along with two small rollers and a large roller and bolt (another TTY bolt). We always replace the serpentine belt. The timing belt tools and a look at the "how to" for changing a timing belt would do you a lot of good.

At timing belt interval is a great time to check the front crank seal and see if it is leaking, which is not unlikely. You are also close to the 250k maintenance interval for your oil pump chain and tensioner, which is behind the crank sprocket/ front flange/ sprocket bolt, which by the way, is also a TTY bolt. If you are doing a front seal, it would be very logical to also include the oil pump chain.

As a footnote, we have a very cool, easy to use removal and install kit for front main seal. Also have timing belt tools to loan or buy. Check with us about that.

I'm not much on replacing good engine mounts. We can repair one easily enough, even in place. If there is a fear of that happening, we loan out a 12mm x 1.5 Recoil Kit, which includes a very long recoil insert. Once recoiled, the motor mount becomes very durable.

Another tweak that deviates 'from the book'... we haven't used the preload +1/4 turn method on the engine bolts, but go to direct torque values. We find the difference makes the engine mount last longer, but still does not cause an issue with bolts breaking and leaving the engine hanging, as might happen from either under-torquing or reusing old mount bolts.

Any other questions or needs, feel free to contact us.

oilhammer said:

They used the old style belt. No idea why dealers do this (no idea why they even continue to offer the old style belt ). But they cannot think outside the box, they just look up things by VIN.
What they SHOULD have done is just installed the "toothed belt repair kit", which consists of the long life belt, tensioner, and all the rollers. And it usually costs about the same as the defunct belt and tensioner alone.
So yeah, get it all redone correctly with the newest stuff.

Click to expand...

Well, none of that surprises me at all. I do all the work on my cars but have passes on a timing belt on my honda as it's a little harder to do big jobs at my house.

I did the timing belt on my Isuzu P'up diesel, but that was pretty stupid easy to do, and since it WASN"T transverse, it was all easy to get to.

The Jetta seems a little cramped and harder to get to. Not to mention special tools (purchase or rental), but the $800ish I was quoted from a semi local guru make it hard to swallow.

If I"m looking right, fixmyVW has a kit for 100k is $260ish and looks to have all TTY bolts and such replaced. $40 for tool rental. ID Parts is very similar in price.

I can follow directions and have no problems working on vehicles, suspension, engine pulls, wiring...just not sure about this jetta timing belt.

Thanks Franko6 and nidas for the info!

Sounds like better just order a kit and get it done.

00Jetta00 said:

Yes I have the list.
tooth belt: 038109119D
tensioner: 038109243N
Water Pump: 038121011AX

Click to expand...

Now you see why I asked... so often dealers botch these jobs.

My car was the same way when I bought it, the dealer replaced the above parts and not the rollers. I redid mine shortly after finding this site and coming to same conclusion. Glad I did, one of the rollers was on the way out. I probably wouldn't have made it another 10k.

belome said:

Now you see why I asked... so often dealers botch these jobs.
My car was the same way when I bought it, the dealer replaced the above parts and not the rollers. I redid mine shortly after finding this site and coming to same conclusion. Glad I did, one of the rollers was on the way out. I probably wouldn't have made it another 10k.

Click to expand...

So I think I'm just going to do this on my own. How much coolant flows out when you remove the water pump? Trying to figure out how to deal with that without making a complete mess on the floor. I hate that sticky coolant getting all over.

00Jetta00 said:

So I think I'm just going to do this on my own. How much coolant flows out when you remove the water pump? Trying to figure out how to deal with that without making a complete mess on the floor. I hate that sticky coolant getting all over.

Click to expand...

I bought a washing machine pan at Home Depot. It's about 3' square and easily just slide it under the vehicle when it's coolant time.
Keeps the chances of the little dog from getting into any residual spilled coolants.
I think you loose about 3 qts if you don't pre-drain any.

Slightly off topic but...

I also have a TB job to do on my recently purchased 2005 Golf TDI (95K miles), and disappointing as it sounds, no DIY kits for me. I need someone with guru skills to do this job right. My local VW dealer has looked at the job but, as you can imagine, it's pricey and from what I have read on this site, there's a lot that can go wrong if the job is not done 100% right. I am looking for solid recommendations for someone in the Mid-Atlantic east coast area who specializes in this type of work. Any tips on what to look for when hiring someone would also be appreciated.
Many thanks,
Margaret

tdinyc said:

Slightly off topic but...

I also have a TB job to do on my recently purchased 2005 Golf TDI (95K miles), and disappointing as it sounds, no DIY kits for me. I need someone with guru skills to do this job right. My local VW dealer has looked at the job but, as you can imagine, it's pricey and from what I have read on this site, there's a lot that can go wrong if the job is not done 100% right. I am looking for solid recommendations for someone in the Mid-Atlantic east coast area who specializes in this type of work. Any tips on what to look for when hiring someone would also be appreciated.
Many thanks,
Margaret

Click to expand...

Start here:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=130044

If nothing good shows up near you, look at the regional forums... they are a little further down.

jettawreck said:

I bought a washing machine pan at Home Depot. It's about 3' square and easily just slide it under the vehicle when it's coolant time.
Keeps the chances of the little dog from getting into any residual spilled coolants.
I think you loose about 3 qts if you don't pre-drain any.

Click to expand...

I like that idea. I've got some critters that my family would prefer I don't end their existance

That washing pan is a great idea, I just wasn't sure how much came out. I pulled the pan off my tranny in a diesel excurion what a mess. I even had a tarp down.

Looks like I might as well get the kit and get ready to change it in the next week or so.
Any preference on kit? In the Land Cruiser world it's all OEM all the time.

fixmyvw?
IDparts?
OEM?
Bora?

or is that a frowned upon question here?

thanks

Yeah, I don't understand the parts kit - IE: why not sell that instead of each individual part. I think its because parts dept would rather make fewer sales with more profit than more sales at lower profit.

1) Belt by VIN. This one is easy. Liability is on VW if there is a part failure. Even though the other belt is better, if there is a problem and the part doesn't match VIN, we have to eat the whole cost.

2) Belt, tensioner, pump. This is easy, but retarded. We have to be price competitive to Lube and Tune joints that price a belt only (even if they up sell the rest later). If we price it the correct way then no one will do the job with us. They will just go down to spiffy lube and have some hack screw it up. Then we get the car towed back to us along with a furious customer. And they expect it all done for free since "my guy already did that".

I agree that the rollers should be done as well. Mounts are a case by case basis. Bolts are a hard sell, but I do push it hard on second and later t-belt jobs. I can recommend the proper way to do it all day, but it comes down to what customer is willing to pay.

BTW - our labor rate is cheaper than local Pep Boys.

OP - It looks like it is due anyway and not a waste to just go ahead and do it. A kit is by far the easiest way to order it. Maybe a guru or knowledgeable buddy to help out so you can do it your self? A case of beer helps

Jason

00Jetta00 said:

or is that a frowned upon question here?

Click to expand...

Nope several of those vendors support this site. I use IDParts personally but there are several others that have the same quality parts.

I'd find the one closest to you, for faster shipping. They are all about the same price and quality I'd bet.

00Jetta00 said:

I like that idea. I've got some critters that my family would prefer I don't end their existance
That washing pan is a great idea, I just wasn't sure how much came out. I pulled the pan off my tranny in a diesel excurion what a mess. I even had a tarp down.
Looks like I might as well get the kit and get ready to change it in the next week or so.
Any preference on kit? In the Land Cruiser world it's all OEM all the time.
fixmyvw?
IDparts?
OEM?
Bora?
or is that a frowned upon question here?
thanks

Click to expand...

I usually get my parts from this forum vender because the price, service and shipping are terrific and you can rent/borrow the specialty tools if you want/need to at the same time:
http://www.metalmanparts.com
but any/all the above are great.
Find a complete kit and everything is there.

I don't know if it's the same on the ALH, but on my CJAA, I saved a bunch of the motor mount hassle by removing and replacing the tb tensioner stud along with the tensioner. Major timesaver.

Turbobrick,

That is something we have been recommending for years with the BRM. As a matter of fact, with the BRM engine we encourage NOT removing the engine mount bolts; 1) the front bolt is particularly sensitive to stripping or breaking and will eventually fail. At that point, you either replace the accessory bracket or change to a motor mount that operated much like the ALH or BE, which requires you remove the engine mount bolts each and every time.
2) It's cheaper, easier and quicker to leave the engine mount bolts alone.

The negatives... there are none. Any kit that sells the bolts as part of the timing belt system are just selling parts.

Also, the tensioner stud does not require much force to install The way we reinstall the tensioner is by using an 8mm x 1.25 staked nut that comes with our timing belt kits. We use a ratcheting wrench to drive the stud in. When the staked nut begins to turn onto the threads, STOP. That's all the more tight it needs to be. No Locktite, no force. Push down on the tensioner and remove the staked nut. Reuse the original castle nut on the tensioner. We like them better.

turbobrick240 said:

I don't know if it's the same on the ALH, but on my CJAA, I saved a bunch of the motor mount hassle by removing and replacing the tb tensioner stud along with the tensioner. Major timesaver.

Click to expand...

Thats some great info there. I like those tips. If there is a step that can save a ton of time, I"m all for it.

I also noticed the remove turbo outlet hose. Is that one you have to do as well?

For removing the tensioner stud, I found a nut that fit, and cut a slot in it. Gripping it with vice-grips squeezes the threads hard enough to unscrew the stud without damaging the threads. No help on the ALH, as there just isn't enough room to thread out the stud, but should help on my wife's BRM when I do the TB.

Started the process last night. No real issues, but a few annoyances.
Someone had already stripped out the back 2 valve cover bolts, but I was able to get an allen wrench pushed in there after removing the EGR.

Long ways still to go.

Head looks pretty clean for 229k.

00Jetta00 said:

Someone had already stripped out the back 2 valve cover bolts, but I was able to get an allen wrench pushed in there after removing the EGR.

Click to expand...

Could have been worse. I had to chisel off most of the valve cover bolts on the daughter's wagon. PO had put beefer ones in in an attempt to force the valve cover to weld itself to the head- with enough friction/force you can stop any leaks, or so this is what appears to have been thinking! NOTE: proper torque on valve cover bolts is approximately 6 ft-lbs (those on the wagon had to have been at least 25 ft-lbs).

Keep up the good work!

failing....
I cannot for the life of me get things all lined up.

I'm at this point: 2 things happen

Cam Lock in place
TDC on Flywheel
PIN in IP

I got everything in place, belt routed everything still looks lined up.
Locked it up, then turned the engine over manually 2 times.

I go back to TDC, put cam lock in and now I can put IP Pin in unless I loosen bolts then I lost all the adjustability in the 3 IP bolts and timing was "close"

So, I'm thinking I jumped a tooth on the IP. I tried to spin it 1 tooth (looking at IP I turned it clockwise 1 tooth) and then start the process again.

Now I can still get Cam lock on and timing at TDC perfect...but now the PIN is even further off once I pin it try to put the belt on.

So did I turn the IP pump the wrong way?
Also how the heck do I put the belt on without moving the flywheel timing out of whack?

I'm literally at HOURS on this one point. probably 3 hours trying to get this right...i was pretty close the beginning...now worse.

Did you loosen the cam sprocket from the cam?

What are you using for a guide?

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/a...nt-vw-jetta-tdi-golf-beetle-1998-2003-part-1/

www.tdiclub.com/articles/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf

How close was the pin for the IP? Did you use a puller and pop the cam sprocket loose from the cam? Did you center up the IP sprocket so the bolts were centered in the slotted holes before putting the belt on? How did the tensioner line up after a couple rotations? What are you using to set crank timing?

First - every timing belt I have ever done the locking pins don't fit "perfect" after two rotations. But usually with some wiggling and "body english" they will go in.

Take a break, start over at putting the timing locks in place, put the belt on, snug every thing up, rotate the engine twice. At this point, BEFORE you get frustrated, take some pictures of the IP sprocket showing the lock pin hole and slotted bolts if you're not satisfied with how the timing looks. Then we can help with suggestions of how to proceed.

Jason

PS: if you already got, disregard my rambling

And replace your vacuum lines.