400hp 1.9tdi 8v P.D.

Now everyone help here because this is not something that you make every day

$$$???

LOL, thats exactly the way you ask for help ^^

Contact p0wer on here, he does them all the time and says you don't need anything special to make 400hp. Just don't have it done in the US because obviously we don't know what we're doing.

^^Stop being childish...

What makes his build so much different from for example ryanPs build that makes his 350hp so unbelievable? P0wer has ported head, bigger cam, bigger pump, and most importantly BIG ENOUGH NOZZLES. All TDI tuner don`t write here all that often so don`t take that newbie status too literally.

There would be plenty of 300+ hp TDIs in US if you just would stop using those tiny little nozzles...

Oh right, because it's all about the nozzles. Thanks. Add more fuel and everything magically makes five times the power.

Have you looked at Ryanp's build? It's a WHOLE LOT more than just nozzles. Why do all that when all he had to do was toss in some larger nozzles and use the stock internals?

1.9 8v TDI PD150 ARL Engine (Current Figures:
368.6bhp & 475Ft/Lbs - without Nitrous)
Darkside Developments Custom Compound Turbo Setup
Stainless Tubular Manifold and 2" Turbo Connecting pipe
GTB1749V High Pressure Turbo
Tial MVS HP Bypass Wastegate
Holset HX35w Low Pressure Turbo
3" Downpipe and 1.5" screamer pipe exiting through bonnet
2.0 BHW Pistons
Rosten Con Rods
Ported Head with oversize Inlet and Exhaust valves
Firad 120% Race PD Injectors
Race Camshaft Kit
2 x Darkside Intercoolers - 2 Stage cooling
Darkside Custom Alloy Intercooler Pipework
Darkside 4 Ply Silicones + T-Bolt clamps
Passat PD130 Inlet Manifold
Darkside EGR Delete Pipe
4 BAR MAP Sensor
VibraTechnics Engine Mounts
Darkside Developments Custom Tune- 60+ PSI Boost

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And here is a 1Z build where they ONLY got 280hp out of the engine (Current Power Figures
279.5bhp and 445Ft/Lbs - Dyno Proven). I guess they just don't know what they're doing either.

1.9 8v 1Z Engine
Darkside Developments Tubular Top Mount Exhaust Manifold
GTB2260Vk Turbo converted to vacuum
2.5” Downpipe with 3” Flexi
2.5” Straight Through Stainless Exhaust
81mm pistons & rings (2.0 Conversion)
Fardon Engineering Custom H-beam hardened Con-rods
Head ported, flowed, skimmed and wire ringed
Dbilas 260 cam, lifter pockets milled out .5mm
G60 head gasket with race-ware head bolts (110nm)
Baffle/Windage tray
PD150 Inlet Manifold with Darkside Race Pipe
140mm Universal FMIC Behind grille
Darkside 2.25” bead rolled Alloy boost pipes
Darkside Silicone connectors and T-Bolt clamps
Paper Cone Filter
11mm bodied IP with 12mm head and keystone mod
HFLO-X .341 nozzles on new bodies
7psi lift pump and Mocal fuel cooler
External oil cooler with Thermoplate plus oil/water heat exchanger
CCV to Downpipe

Most expensive, slowest engine on the planet.

There are buiders and there are just gearlist watchers and interweb trollers (ie. Abacus).

To put this into perspective it would be a 1250hp cummins at 210hp/L

I can calculate the mass air flow and fuel required and cylinder pressures later at 7000 rpms. Syndiesel plus N20 plus LPG, plus H20meth added to the mix would surly require some precise (open loop) ecu control in concert with the other progressive controllers needed for LPG/H20M.

It reminds me of the engineers in the 40's trying to get overloaded bombers off the carriers by pushing the motors beyond their capabilities. The engine(s) duty cycle was one bombing mission.

Abacus said:

Oh right, because it's all about the nozzles. Thanks. Add more fuel and everything magically makes five times the power.

Have you looked at Ryanp's build? It's a WHOLE LOT more than just nozzles. Why do all that when all he had to do was toss in some larger nozzles and use the stock internals?

Click to expand...

Come on.. that 1Z is only whit gtb2260vk.. NOTHING special if numbers are limited to 300hp with such a tiny turbo.. And where is that "WHOLE LOT MORE"? Everybody knows that you have to upgrade your head, camshaft, and so on to make engine breath better.

I got 300hp/620Nm dynopaper from AHU with that turbo. And yes, with stock internals.

The main limiting factor in your example build is turbo. You can get insane torque (useless in 1 wheel drive car) but that's that. It is still a small turbo. Quite different machine and use than what has been the goal with Powers build.

All you need is enough air and fuel in a short enough time and spin the engine high enough. Thats it. Tiny nozzles and small turbos. Not going to happen.


Recipe for 400hp PD goes like this.
CNC head and cam from NPS
Firad 160%
HX35 S200 GTX3071 or something in that balpark
Large exhaust and IC
Fuel lines and possibly a transfer pump.
Stock pistons with slightly modified omega chamber and valve pockets.
H-beam rods if you are scared of braking stock ones.
Thats about it. It will cost a pretty penny.
And if you paint the engine red and polish all the alloy pipes it will gain you at least 100hp more

Its totally impossible to have such a power with stock internals!!1 totally insane!

diffas said:

There are buiders and there are just gearlist watchers and interweb trollers (ie. Abacus).

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm just an interweb troller.

Sure, whatever, Einstein....

I find it funny the only ones CLAIMING huge numbers are foreigners.

280hp is good result from VE engine with 2260VK, there isn´t really matter you use AHU/1Z or AGR based engine because main things remain same. My friend, you must understand that 2260VK is such a tiny turbo compared fe. to Holset HX35 Super. However, PD´s can´t usually rev so high than VE´s, so HX35 would not be an good option for it. It will need an compound for sure to have enough power range for PD engine I think -not sure though, since my experience from PD tuning is really limited, although i own one but it´s only reprogrammed.

Don´t know about PD injectors though, is there enough big ones available for 400hp fueling. For VE also, there isn´t at the moment, but Hflox´s Marc is working for it ( will try 5x0,4+mm and 5x0,5+mm nozzles once they are available ).

HX35 has 54/77mm compressor and 55/65mm turbine wheel. If you look and compare compressor maps from these two turbos, you can find out why´s there an difference on power output. 2260VK can´t just flow enough and there isn´t possibility to use high rpm´s with good effeciency.

350hp will not come with stock intercoler, intercooler piping, exhaust pipe, cam, head, fuel filter, fuel lines, injection pump, unmodified pistons, 2260VK ( or even modified one ). But it will come with stock rods, modified stock pistons ( valve pockets for example, are bit less than 1.5mm deeper than stock ), good setup and proper tune for sure. And by the way, i use almost stock injection timing map too. This engine is result from many long-term tdi tuners after building and having experience from tens of tuned tdi engines, though this one is built on very small time only for the way of experiment. Build it with same receipt, and you will find some numbers.

Can´t claim H-profiles would not be an good update. But question is, why should I make this update after 200 000km driving with highly tuned VE tdi without problems? Most ppl brokes their engine with "universal" tune and software without knowing AFR, EMP, intake or Exh. temps. Proper gauges gives invaluable information for software modification.

I think this conversation should be transfered for it´s own topic. Dont hate, make conversation instead and face the facts. After you make one, you can find some results. After all, still didn´t found ANY bent rods or failed pistons what i´ve asked on another topic.

Summer events are still coming, so let´s see what results we can make if engine still remains intact whole summer Standing mile is what i expect most.

If you don´t know people personally, it does not make people foreigner. However, it´s healthy to suspect. Build it, try it, and then make conversation from it. It´s the way for progress, but you must understand basic things first.

I also find it funny the only ones having huge numbers are actually in europe. That is funny. Or serious. Or just know-how-to. Maybe you just need to go Texas.

Oh, I don't hate, I just don't believe you. I find it specious hundreds of engine builders across the world who have come on this site have not posted numbers like are being claimed by just you Finns, and none of them are milling their pistons down while still in the car.

But it doesn't matter to me either way, I enjoy my cars for what they are and don't make outrageous claims that are supported with only one dyno plot. I'd also expect to see numbers better than 14 sec in the 1/4 mile putting down that much power.

Interesting conversation. Many finns participating, so why not to join in...

I think that it is much harder to make a really fast 1.9 diesel to the quarter mile, than to make 350-400bhp out of it. Especially if you use only one turbo.

In my opinion, it is quite more difficult to make the car go from zero with full power on, because we are still talking about 1.9 litre diesel with a big turbo sticked on it. Much nicer to have little speed , before you step on it.

Standing mile is more suitable for such a car than 1/4 mile... At least the usual case is, that if you just push the throttle down and release the clutch from the starting line, it doesn't have all the power waiting in stand by mode.

Because when we are talking about 350+ bhp, there isn't any HUGE gtb2260vk anymore in the engine bay.

But that is just my opinion. Here is one old video from a trip to Sweden last year. Mikko did a decent job trying to get his car off the line. not a mindblowing time, but it is at least under the magical 14 seconds.

Too bad it looks slow next to that mk2 Golf 4wd with R36 turbocharged engine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9EWlgkrzEw

Abacus said:

Oh, I don't hate, I just don't believe you. I find it specious hundreds of engine builders across the world who have come on this site have not posted numbers like are being claimed by just you Finns, and none of them are milling their pistons down while still in the car.

But it doesn't matter to me either way, I enjoy my cars for what they are and don't make outrageous claims that are supported with only one dyno plot. I'd also expect to see numbers better than 14 sec in the 1/4 mile putting down that much power.

Click to expand...

Could it also be possible that if the very potential build-up is tuned by person who does it for a living, the all potential is not used? Because if that engine explodes, it is automatically ecu-tuners fault? At least according to the customer....I think. Could be the limiting part of the tune.

I dont know how many of TDI-tuners are making own ecu-tuning in the USA for example. Maybe this is also the reason why there is not quite many powerful TDI's.

We are capable to do ecu-tuning ourselves (at least some of us finns who has now take part to this thread), so there is always "all-in" and something else which you dont get from the "stage 1, stage 2......." softwares.

I started to type this message right after abacus posted Ryans specs but I had to grab a few bears before I got this post completed

Sorry ryan for bringing your name into this and for OP for derailing this tread.This is by no means meant to put down Ryans achievements.
Hatemi posted a really good recipe for making a 400hp PD engine.

But still, lets take Ryans ARL here for example because they make roughly the same amount of power and headflow aren`t that much different between VE and PD.
"Darkside Developments Custom Compound Turbo Setup" Compound turbos are great for high pressure and driveability but maximum p0wer is still dictated by LP turbos max flow.
"Stainless Tubular Manifold and 2" Turbo Connecting pipe" Must for for packaging. p0wer has a single turbo so no need for connecting pipe.
"GTB1749V High Pressure Turbo" No need for single turbo.
"Tial MVS HP Bypass Wastegate" No need for single turbo.
"Holset HX35w Low Pressure Turbo" p0wer has HX35 Super so roughly the same max flow
"2.0 BHW Pistons" Dont effect power that much...
"Rosten Con Rods" Doesn`t effect power.
"Ported Head with oversize Inlet and Exhaust valves" p0wer also has ported head but I cant remember about the valves.
"Firad 120% Race PD Injectors" Not a PD so no firads here but still 5x0.34 Injectors. About twice the size of R520.
"Race Camshaft Kit" Same for p0wer.
"2 x Darkside Intercoolers" He gor only one but big enough.
"Darkside Custom Alloy Intercooler Pipework
Darkside 4 Ply Silicones + T-Bolt clamps" Well not stock piping here either. There are plenty of nuts, bolts, zipties and whatnot that aren`t mentioned...

Nobody mentioning nitromethane/nitropropane

If anyone can remember...didn't Marek use nitro for his ~500hp Lupo?

Nitro blend in fuel (not injected like N2O) provides even more available oxygen. More kJ of energy per mass air in the chamber vs. D2 only. Less oxygen is required to burn D2 + CH3NO2 mix vs. just D2

Maybe good option for those looking for 400hp and beyond as other factors become limiting.

Duty cycle = who cares. we want powah

My car

Guys i forgot to tell you that i have 317hp and 545nm now on my engine and 12sec 1/4mile with Nitro(full interior car Audi a3 quattro,because here in my country the rulles are to drive with stock car interior and exterior) that means that the car haves around 400hp but i want 400hp without nitro.

http://dragracing.bg/video/petio-nikolov-audi-a3-vs-atanas-ivanov-vw-golf-mk3

You look to have quattro on your side too.

4wd helps a LOT for quarter mile, our mk3 isn´t fast on quarter mile, but on standing mile it will run fast. Cant do much for Abacus opinions really, this is an open forum, where people should help each other and share their experiences. Can´t prove anything any better. I can just say that if you just would have more experience from VE fuel pumps, injectors, softwares and AFR readings, you will understand this better. Quarter mile time isn´t telling much from engine power, it tells how whole package from driver to tires do work. However, standing mile for example, is telling something from engine power output ( + ofcourse air resistance affects a lot as well ), same as quarter mile end speed tells more from power, than time.

Also for the dyno plot, if stock 170hp car gives 169hp and exactly same torque to paper as stock shuld have, do you keep this dyno unreliable? I don´t really.

apomiett, there is NPS oversized valves on this head.

My High pressure turbo has a 65mm turbine exducer.Its tricky to keep things spooled enough to launch for the 1/4 mile and still shift gears.If mine holds together I might have some dyno readings very soon.

My nozzles are 5 hole X .017 ",Not sure how big that is when compared to the ones used by the Fin's ?

5 x 0.014" Nozzles (HFLO-X 0.341)

Andy2, sounds very good size for a nozzle. 0.341mm really is too small for big numbers when heading reliably over 400 or up to 500hp when talking fueling only. 5 x 0.017" is 5 x 0.4318mm in metric. With OEM 11mm pump you will reach fuel approximately 420-460hp depending pump flow ( never had bigger than 0.341mm since they havent been available ). We also must remember, that nozzle hole size only isn´t everything to have good fueling. Hole angles and geometry should be exact too. May I ask what´s your head, cam and turbo(s) and how high you rev it?

If you have good head and proper turbo, you will reach good numbers even without NOS. Compressor map examination and cylinder head flow measurement is the key for big numbers. Without good luck you cant have good results with only adding "big turbo".

I can have best launch when i raise rpms to the 4000-4500 on the lane, and make start with slipping clutch a lot. Also slight slip on gear change is desirable on smaller gears. That way i can have full boost very quick.

Turbine size isn´t telling much for spooling really, in fact bigger turbine can be much more aggressive to spool than smaller one, so bigger isn´t always slower to spool when talking about turbine.

By the way, can you have more of these 0,017" nozzle tips?

Someone to say something for AM Motorsport Ibiza that is making 10sec with no nitro?How is that possible what are the specs of that car does anyone know something about it?

hatemi said:

The main limiting factor in your example build is turbo. You can get insane torque (useless in 1 wheel drive car) but that's that. It is still a small turbo. Quite different machine and use than what has been the goal with Powers build.
All you need is enough air and fuel in a short enough time and spin the engine high enough. Thats it. Tiny nozzles and small turbos. Not going to happen.
Recipe for 400hp PD goes like this.
CNC head and cam from NPS
Firad 160%
HX35 S200 GTX3071 or something in that balpark
Large exhaust and IC
Fuel lines and possibly a transfer pump.
Stock pistons with slightly modified omega chamber and valve pockets.
H-beam rods if you are scared of braking stock ones.
Thats about it. It will cost a pretty penny.
And if you paint the engine red and polish all the alloy pipes it will gain you at least 100hp more

Click to expand...

Plus some good old GTL diesel fuel to complete the package.

papi123 said:

Someone to say something for AM Motorsport Ibiza that is making 10sec with no nitro?How is that possible what are the specs of that car does anyone know something about it?

Click to expand...

AM Motorsport working with nitro

Can you tell me something more about this fuel?