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TDI Fuel Economy Discussions about increasing the fuel economy of your TDI engine. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

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Old February 4th, 2002, 08:41   #1
Alster
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Default TDI Jetta Wagon real world MPG

Just got back yesterday from the Portland Oregon Auto Show. On display for VW was a silver
Jetta TDI Wagon, Silver with Black Leather interior with a 5-speed. Looked great and I noticed
the mileage was 42 city 50 hwy. The regular sedan Jetta TDI 5-speed is 42 city and 49 Hwy.

Does anyone have a TDI 5-speed Jetta wagon that can attest to the Wagon getting better MPG's
on the highway. Also are all the Jetta wagons with the TDI made in Germany?

Thanks again;

Alster
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Old February 4th, 2002, 09:38   #2
SteveS
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Default Re: TDI Jetta Wagon real world MPG

Alster, ... a 1 mpg difference on highway mileage as something a person might notice? These engines vary far more widely than any car I have owned. My automatic TDI is rated something like 34/45, but my MPG is from a low of 34 to 59.6 high. I have had several tanks over 50 mpg, which amazed me at first. Each TDI will vary dramatically in mileage, totally predictable based upon how it is driven. I mention this because this is the most unusual mpg with mileage being highly variable based upon driving style. My TDI has the most extreme mileage variance I have ever known of.
On the other extreme, I've owned a few Ford 460 engines which gave the same MPG regardless of how I drove...and it was miserably low, but constant & steady. Perhaps that's why the TDI amazes me with its high variance.
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Old February 4th, 2002, 09:51   #3
Route 66
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Default Re: TDI Jetta Wagon real world MPG

The reason that Dave the salesperson that I dealt with on my car was that he said the wagon has better aerodynamics than the sedan.
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Old February 4th, 2002, 10:48   #4
Vhunter
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Default Re: TDI Jetta Wagon real world MPG

Also, don't some states (California?) give a tax cut if you have a 'low consumption' car. I forget the exact term they use.. but seems to me that they said the posted MPG must be 50 or more to qualify.
The figures on the old TDI's were just shy of making it.. maybe this change is so they would make the 'cut'.. ?

Drive on!
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Old February 4th, 2002, 16:36   #5
Norman
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Default Re: TDI Jetta Wagon real world MPG

Not that this is really relevant to this particular discussion, but, I was just thinking that a rear hatch spoiler would really look good on a Jetta Variant, and if done right, might actually decrease the drag on the thing and yield marginally better mileage. (which is probably where the 1mpg difference comes from anyway, a lower Cd on wagon vs. sedan)
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Old February 5th, 2002, 00:08   #6
andyl
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Default Re: TDI Jetta Wagon real world MPG

The Jetta TDI Wagon is currently built in Germany.

My 4 Tanks so far have been (in MPG):

47 44 45 46

The first tank was "breaking in", I kept my speed at 65 MPH or lower. The last 3 tanks have been mainly 75 MPH crusing. From the numbers, it looks like I should break 50 in 4 more tanks.
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Old February 5th, 2002, 00:12   #7
Eolair
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Default Re: TDI Jetta Wagon real world MPG

Quote:
Originally posted by SteveS:
Alster, ... a 1 mpg difference on highway mileage as something a person might notice? These engines vary far more widely than any car I have owned. My automatic TDI is rated something like 34/45, but my MPG is from a low of 34 to 59.6 high. I have had several tanks over 50 mpg, which amazed me at first. Each TDI will vary dramatically in mileage, totally predictable based upon how it is driven. I mention this because this is the most unusual mpg with mileage being highly variable based upon driving style. My TDI has the most extreme mileage variance I have ever known of.
On the other extreme, I've owned a few Ford 460 engines which gave the same MPG regardless of how I drove...and it was miserably low, but constant & steady. Perhaps that's why the TDI amazes me with its high variance.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And this is logical, because the US mpg value is not a linear value. You see this when you compare mpg to the l/100km values.
For example 12 mpg translates into 19.6l/100km
13mpg are 18.1l/100km

But if you have a car that gets a high mileage,
i.e 47mpg=5l/100km then 48mpg=4.9l/100km

You see that a car that gets 1 mpg more in the high 40s, only uses 0.1l less, while a car which gets 13 instead of 12mpg uses 1.5l (almost 1/2 gallon) less.

1mpg in the teens isn´t the same quantity of fuel as one mpg in the forties. Therefor If a car gets a bad mileage, the value will be more constant as the values are levelled out.

With a high mileage car, you can see the mpg varying more, because one mpg stands for a much smaller quantity of fuel.
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Old February 5th, 2002, 01:41   #8
SteveS
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Default Re: TDI Jetta Wagon real world MPG

Thanks Eolair, that certainly does highlight the observations I made. Permit me one question, why are you German guys so smart? All my life I would hear of our great strides in space, then our news people would interview a German scientist who was either working for us or for the Russians. Why are you guys so much smarter?
Oh sure, we have SkyPup, but have you noticed all the German vehicles he owns? I'm a little suspicious.
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Old February 5th, 2002, 09:54   #9
Oldman
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Default Re: TDI Jetta Wagon real world MPG

Yeah, them Germans maybe smart, but it is us Italians that have all the good looking women, which would you chouse? Life is best when you have: German made car, Japanese wife, American Education, Australian sized home, born Italian (the worlds best cooks and lovers). Just like WWII, the Italians were smart and opted out of the war early. Churchill commented on the Italian army: “never have so many surrendered to so few”. So who are the smart ones? Plus Skupup and I owned the exact same cars, but I’m sure I would have picked a Dino over a BMW CS if I could have afforded one, along with the long legged Italanio babe that goes with it.
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Old February 5th, 2002, 10:02   #10
SkyPup
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[img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] LOL [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

I love to look at those beautiful powerful Ferraris and Ducati's and would even take one for a ride now and then.

But having to ride them everyday and work on them is a different story, I'll take my Two TDIs and Two KTMs anyday of the week (since they are so reliable). When you have to live with what you ride, VW and KTM RULE. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

(btw - the wife is Italian though.....)
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Old February 5th, 2002, 10:13   #11
peter pyce
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Default Re: TDI Jetta Wagon real world MPG

Quote:
Originally posted by Bookworm:
The reason that Dave the salesperson that I dealt with on my car was that he said the wagon has better aerodynamics than the sedan.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No Wagon has better aerodynamics than sedan, if we talk same maker and model! The cut back is creating way more turbolences than a sedan, therefore no way the Jetta wagon will be better than a Jetta sedan. I will try to find the data about the Cx and post it here. Similar things happen with Golf and Jetta. Similar body, just different back, a cut that makes the Golf less aerodynamic than the Jetta sedan. So, I guess if Wagon consume less fuel on high way, the reason shoudl be somewhere else.......
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Old February 5th, 2002, 11:55   #12
SpamJ
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Default Re: TDI Jetta Wagon real world MPG

Ah but the wagon has more of a Kamm (sp?) back reducing air turbulance. Take a look at the high mileage cars from Honda, CRX and the Insight. No sedan's there.

Sam
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Old February 5th, 2002, 13:46   #13
peter pyce
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spamjohnson:
Ah but the wagon has more of a Kamm (sp?) back reducing air turbulance. Take a look at the high mileage cars from Honda, CRX and the Insight. No sedan's there.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sam..... CRX and Insight are not Wagons, they are two-volumes cars..... more the second. That's a different story. The Insight has very aerodynamic form, yes, but is way different than Jetta Wagon. Talking about aerodynamics, the back of an object is as important as the front. Half sphere is not nearly aerodynamic as full sphere, if the flow is perpendicular to the base of the halp pshere. I will try to find some materials and to post it here, so to document what I am saying. Just busy today, but tonight I will try....

All of you have a nice day!
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Old February 5th, 2002, 13:57   #14
loughman
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The 50 mpg vs. 49 mpg city for the Jetta wagon vs. sedan with 5 speed and TDI is most probably due to testing anamolies and roundoff. My understanding of EPA tests is that they are done on a dyno, hence the car is not moving so aerodynamics won't come into play. Secondly the wagon is the same car in every other respect, except it is slightly heavier, about 180 lbs. if I remember correctly.
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Old February 5th, 2002, 16:10   #15
SpamJ
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Default Re: TDI Jetta Wagon real world MPG

Would you believe the roof rack is used as a wind splitter? [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Sam
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