Electric vehicles (EVs), their emissions, and future viability

Status
Not open for further replies.

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Any info on RANGE?

The MEB platform will encompass several vehicles, I suspect range will vary greatly as it always does. They are shooting for a 200-300 mile range for most models though. But again, things like temperature extremes, traffic, speed, etc. will cause a larger fluctuation in that figure than you see with ICE powered cars.
 

dremd

Veteran Member
Joined
May 31, 2007
Location
South Louisiana
TDI
06 sprinter. 03 jetta wagon premium with 6 speed ALH swap, 14 JSW
Hey, I didn't say to buy one new. ;) (Although... there might be some new ones rotting on dealer lots for cheap...)
There was one in my town with "$37,000 Off" on the windshield. I'll look to see if it's still there.


Edit: Cadillac ELR.
 

Oilerlord

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Location
Edmonton, Canada
TDI
2012 JSW TDI w/DSG. 700 Mile Club. 2008 BMW X3 "Beatrice", 2004 BMW 330Xi, 2014 Mercedes B-Class Electric
The ELR is a repackaged Gen 1 Volt that was a 3X better car before it became a Cadillac. Though I don't mind the ELR's styling, the result was a truly horrible car that doesn't do anything well. It's a joke that GM priced it at $70K...as if it was going to be a serious competitor to a Model S.

There are a number of ELR's rotting on dealer lots for a reason. It's that bad.
 

Oilerlord

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Location
Edmonton, Canada
TDI
2012 JSW TDI w/DSG. 700 Mile Club. 2008 BMW X3 "Beatrice", 2004 BMW 330Xi, 2014 Mercedes B-Class Electric
I suspect range will vary greatly as it always does. They are shooting for a 200-300 mile range for most models though. But again, things like temperature extremes, traffic, speed, etc. will cause a larger fluctuation in that figure than you see with ICE powered cars.
A 200 mile car doesn't do it for me, perhaps others feel the same way given the Bolt's pathetic sales numbers. It has to be 300+ miles before I'd consider taking an EV on a road trip - regardless of "fast" charging availability. The EV community LOVES wasting time at public charging stations. I don't. I'd much rather save $20K buying a used 80 mile car for the city and take my TDI on road trips.
 

KITEWAGON

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Location
Seacoast, NH
TDI
2014 Touareg Exec, 2014 JSW
That's exactly what I was able to find with my 500e. >95% capacity (based on estimated range and how much energy I can put into it when charging), for a mere $8,000.
Where did you find your 500e? Did you buy out of state and have it shipped?

I just read that they were only sold in California and Oregon? One of these seems like it could be a great low cost commuter for me. I don't even care if the battery is degraded because my round trip commute for work is only about 15 or 16 miles.

EDIT: Holy smokes there are tons of them on cars.com!! I wish I could find one around here to test drive. Actually I see one 2017 in the state. Does anyone know if they are more or less the same as the 2013's in terms of how they drive?
 
Last edited:

Oilerlord

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Location
Edmonton, Canada
TDI
2012 JSW TDI w/DSG. 700 Mile Club. 2008 BMW X3 "Beatrice", 2004 BMW 330Xi, 2014 Mercedes B-Class Electric
I don't even care if the battery is degraded because my round trip commute for work is only about 15 or 16 miles.
If you live in NH, you should care. Once the temperature falls below 50F, it's like someone hit the range kill switch. As you've already found, there are dozens of low mileage examples under $10K. If you plan to keep the car for the long term, buy one of those. No reason to cheap out.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Where did you find your 500e? Did you buy out of state and have it shipped?

I just read that they were only sold in California and Oregon? One of these seems like it could be a great low cost commuter for me. I don't even care if the battery is degraded because my round trip commute for work is only about 15 or 16 miles.

EDIT: Holy smokes there are tons of them on cars.com!! I wish I could find one around here to test drive. Actually I see one 2017 in the state. Does anyone know if they are more or less the same as the 2013's in terms of how they drive?
We bought it from Faulkner Fiat in Pennsylvania and drove it home. We stopped at Catoctin national park to charge for three hours, which was pretty much the half-way point. So far we have put 4,500 miles on it since the end of March. I calculated last month's energy usage and the car is costing us about 2.5 cents per mile in electricity, mostly charging at home.

Shop around and find the one you want. There are so many floating around right now that you shouldn't have a problem finding the color combination that you want. You might even be able to get one with a CPO warranty like we did.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Just an update to this thread, spoke with a friend from the Volkswagen dealer I was at years ago. He had a conversation with the regional sales consultant for VoA and he said they are pushing forward on several electric cars, purpose built ones, not like the eGolf. As early as 2020 model year they hope to have one model with at least three more to follow shortly thereafter. All based on a new MEB platform. This may be old news here, just thought I'd share.
VW is tossing around some unusual numbers right now (example, $x,xxx less than a Tesla). I think they're jumping the gun and floating prices that are based on anticipated reductions in battery manufacturing costs. 2020 is still a few years away, so some of this seems premature to me.

As for range, I think 200-300 miles is a good target, but they absolutely must improve charging speeds. The Bolt's average "fast" charging speed of 35kW is pathetic and kills it as a road trip vehicle.
 

El Dobro

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
NJ
TDI
2017 Bolt EV Premier, 2023 Bolt EUV Premier
Where did you find your 500e? Did you buy out of state and have it shipped?

I just read that they were only sold in California and Oregon? One of these seems like it could be a great low cost commuter for me. I don't even care if the battery is degraded because my round trip commute for work is only about 15 or 16 miles.

EDIT: Holy smokes there are tons of them on cars.com!! I wish I could find one around here to test drive. Actually I see one 2017 in the state. Does anyone know if they are more or less the same as the 2013's in terms of how they drive?
Cargurus is good, too.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
VW is tossing around some unusual numbers right now (example, $x,xxx less than a Tesla). I think they're jumping the gun and floating prices that are based on anticipated reductions in battery manufacturing costs. 2020 is still a few years away, so some of this seems premature to me..

No, 2020 is right around the corner, and any manufacturer that expects to market a 2020 model year vehicle will have had to have it all sorted out by now. They HAVE to know many things a couple years out, due to regulatory changes, etc. There are already some 2018 model year vehicles hitting showroom floors right now. Very little will change between now and then regarding battery/charging technology. However, the nature of that beast is such that the vehicle itself can have a lot of elasticity in its general design, so there may be some minor changes at the last minute but I expect most of the MEB platform is already set in stone.

And, unlike taxpayer propped Tesla, Volkswagen actually has such a giant global footprint that they can easily undercut them on price even if it means selling the first year's worth of EVs at a loss. Toyota did the same thing with hybrid models early on. The RX400h when it came out COST Toyota an average of $1000 per unit... and that was with a price tag nearly $10k more than a similarly equipped RX330, as well as leaving a bunch of minor under-the-skin cheapening on the hybrid RX too.

Despite Dieselgate, despite the naysayers and haters, Volkswagen is STILL a giant car company, and perhaps because of Dieselgate, they'll be pushing the EV angle hard in the coming years. However I do not see them as being trendsetters in technology advancements in that arena, but they may prove me wrong. I hope they do.
 

CraziFuzzy

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Location
Jurupa Valley
TDI
'09 JSW (GoneBack) - replaced with '15 Azera and '16 Fiat 500e.
Where did you find your 500e? Did you buy out of state and have it shipped?

I just read that they were only sold in California and Oregon? One of these seems like it could be a great low cost commuter for me. I don't even care if the battery is degraded because my round trip commute for work is only about 15 or 16 miles.

EDIT: Holy smokes there are tons of them on cars.com!! I wish I could find one around here to test drive. Actually I see one 2017 in the state. Does anyone know if they are more or less the same as the 2013's in terms of how they drive?
they haven't changed much between model years, as I understand it. If you want to get a feel for it, go test drive a regular 500, to see if you fit comfortably, and then figure on the 500e being a quicker version of that. the 500e does have less room in the back seat, due to a higher floor than the gasoline version.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
No, 2020 is right around the corner, and any manufacturer that expects to market a 2020 model year vehicle will have had to have it all sorted out by now. They HAVE to know many things a couple years out, due to regulatory changes, etc. There are already some 2018 model year vehicles hitting showroom floors right now. Very little will change between now and then regarding battery/charging technology.

However, the nature of that beast is such that the vehicle itself can have a lot of elasticity in its general design, so there may be some minor changes at the last minute but I expect most of the MEB platform is already set in stone.

And, unlike taxpayer propped Tesla, Volkswagen actually has such a giant global footprint that they can easily undercut them on price even if it means selling the first year's worth of EVs at a loss. Toyota did the same thing with hybrid models early on. The RX400h when it came out COST Toyota an average of $1000 per unit... and that was with a price tag nearly $10k more than a similarly equipped RX330, as well as leaving a bunch of minor under-the-skin cheapening on the hybrid RX too.

Despite Dieselgate, despite the naysayers and haters, Volkswagen is STILL a giant car company, and perhaps because of Dieselgate, they'll be pushing the EV angle hard in the coming years. However I do not see them as being trendsetters in technology advancements in that arena, but they may prove me wrong. I hope they do.
I'll believe this vehicle and its price point when I see it, as has been the case with many Volkswagens concepts in the past. They like to say things and then not actually do them. What version of the Microbus concept are we on now?

Anyway, I'd love to know more about Tesla's taxpayer propping-up and how it compares to something that is conventionally fueled. Remember that Tesla isn't just supplying vehicles - they're also supplying nation-wide recharging infrastructure. Fossil fuels get some pretty significant taxpayer subsidies in the USA. In the case of Nevada, the state's subsidy is 1% of Tesla's total overall investment in that state over the course of 20 years. That seems like a fair government investment in solid job growth and local manufacturing. With regard to the $7,500 federal tax credit, all auto makers are eligible for those funds.
 
Last edited:

Oilerlord

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Location
Edmonton, Canada
TDI
2012 JSW TDI w/DSG. 700 Mile Club. 2008 BMW X3 "Beatrice", 2004 BMW 330Xi, 2014 Mercedes B-Class Electric
In the case of Nevada, the state's subsidy is 1% of Tesla's total overall investment in that state over the course of 20 years. That seems like a fair government investment in solid job growth and local manufacturing.
Completely fair. That is, if Tesla survives for the next 20 years and/or doesn't scale down operations. Reading Tesla's safe harbor statements, investment in TSLA comes with significant risk.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
My point is, Tesla may not exist if it were not for gov't help. And that in no way means that I am against that help to get an American company that has a good message headed down the road. But their profitability long term remains up in the air. And while they may have done a lot of work pioneering and sharing their technology, they are still a tiny upstart fledgling company compared to Volkswagen, Toyota, Ford, etc. And if anyone one of those companies really WANTED to, they could easily shove them aside in the marketplace.

But until consumers in large numbers [here] actually WANT to drive EVs, the other manufacturers will idly sit by. GM laughed in the 1950s at the goofy little car born from the ashes of WW2, Ford turned down taking the plant over when it was offered to him in the '40s. But today, that company that started with that goofy little car that looked like a bug is the largest.

So if the other companies stick their heads in the sand and ignore the likes of Tesla... then chances are the same thing will happen again. But it would appear that won't happen. How much influence Dieselgate has to do with VAG's current and near future plans is tough to say, and I am sure the behind the doors German secretive behavior will keep that information from us. But my feeling is some of this was already in the planning phases anyway.

There is also this constant banter of Tesla's awful quality control, which again makes me think anyone could easily best them at their own game if they struggle with seemingly simple things like door panel fitment and such. I mean even a $10k Versa is fit together perfectly.
 
Last edited:

Oilerlord

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Location
Edmonton, Canada
TDI
2012 JSW TDI w/DSG. 700 Mile Club. 2008 BMW X3 "Beatrice", 2004 BMW 330Xi, 2014 Mercedes B-Class Electric
I'm still wondering how a largely web-based car retailer can continue to absorb the high costs of providing local service for a car shipped to remote, Smalltown USA and not get absolutely slammed with long distance shipping expenses should the "Ranger" technician not be able to fix the problem. The business model seems to be working now (more or less) but I have my doubts Tesla is going to be able to scale to a company that sells millions of cars without a substantial bricks & mortar presence. You can't fix a suspension with an over-the-air update.
 
Last edited:

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
My point is, Tesla may not exist if it were not for gov't help. And that in no way means that I am against that help to get an American company that has a good message headed down the road. But their profitability long term remains up in the air. And while they may have done a lot of work pioneering and sharing their technology, they are still a tiny upstart fledgling company compared to Volkswagen, Toyota, Ford, etc. And if anyone one of those companies really WANTED to, they could easily shove them aside in the marketplace.
You're absolutely correct. The Government has helped nearly all of the US auto manufacturers. GM, Chrysler, and Tesla.

If the other companies really WANTED to, they could shove Tesla aside. But every year they wait, they get further and further beyond in technology, data collection and AI development. Tesla's vehicles continue to collect data and give them a competitive edge on autonomous driving, battery longevity, and charging statistics with each passing day. So why keep waiting? Let's get a move on!

But until consumers in large numbers [here] actually WANT to drive EVs, the other manufacturers will idly sit by. GM laughed in the 1950s at the goofy little car born from the ashes of WW2, Ford turned down taking the plant over when it was offered to him in the '40s. But today, that company that started with that goofy little car that looked like a bug is the largest.
The want to drive an EV will come as consumers gain confidence in EVs and as manufacturing costs come down. Operational costs are already lower than traditional engines, but your average consumer is still willing to pay the ICE premium in order to have instantly-refillable range. It will take time, development and significant investment for EVs to be widely accepted. Tesla is going full steam ahead this in an attempt to gain acceptance. Others look like they want to try to follow, but they seem to be reluctant to step out of their comfort zones in order to actually do it.

So if the other companies stick their heads in the sand and ignore the likes of Tesla... then chances are the same thing will happen again. But it would appear that won't happen. How much influence Dieselgate has to do with VAG's current and near future plans is tough to say, and I am sure the behind the doors German secretive behavior will keep that information from us. But my feeling is some of this was already in the planning phases anyway.
I'd say that companies had their heads in the sand at first, but many of them are starting to change direction. In addition, many governments (China, France, Norway) are accelerating the process with significantly reduced emissions targets in the relatively near future.

There is also this constant banter of Tesla's awful quality control, which again makes me think anyone could easily best them at their own game if they struggle with seemingly simple things like door panel fitment and such. I mean even a $10k Versa is fit together perfectly.
Early Teslas were definitely saddled with QC problems. They still have a few, but their production and QC processes have improved substantially in recent years. Other manufacturers have had their own QC problems, including Nissan's LEAF battery packs, Toyota's hybrid motor stator failure issues, Volkswagen's diesel emissions system reliability problems, Volkswagen's timing chain problems, FCA's self-machining HEMI engines, and much much more. The most important thing to look at is how manufacturers handle these issues under warranty and how they modify their production processes to correct the problems (or not, as the case may be *cough* GM ignition switches). Tesla does have one particularly good thing going for them, which is over-the-air updates, allowing them to push software and firmware corrections to the cars remotely without requiring owners to come to service centers.

My hope is that quality will improve as overall progress is made in this fledgling company. All things considered, they're managing the delicate balance pretty well. Time will tell the whole story.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
I'm still wondering how a largely web-based car retailer can continue to absorb the high costs of providing local service for a car shipped to remote, Smalltown USA and not get absolutely slammed with long distance shipping expenses should the "Ranger" technician not be able to fix the problem. The business model seems to be working now (more or less) but I have my doubts Tesla is going to be able to scale to a company that sells millions of cars without a substantial bricks & mortar presence. You can't fix a suspension with an over-the-air update.
Tesla will obviously need to build more brick and mortar service locations prior to the arrival of the Model 3. Mobile technicians (Tesla Rangers) are a great idea, but they can't do all of the things that a full service center can do.

Tesla is currently constructing four new service locations: Detroit, Omaha, Oklahoma City and New Orleans. I anticipate a rapid increase in construction similar to what we're currently seeing with the Supercharger network expansion (29 new Supercharger locations under construction as of today, several more permitted for construction to start soon, and several others being recently completed).

Compare this to traditional car manufacturers who sell EVs. A Chevy dealer needs to be EV certified to sell the Bolt and the Volt. There are only a limited number of EV-certified Chevy dealers in the country, requiring significant travel time for either the car or a technician if something goes wrong for a rural owner. And that's not limited to Chevy ... the same applies for Nissan, Kia, FCA, Mercedes and many others who have EVs and PHEVs for sale in North America. We need to see a significant expansion of EV-certified repair centers of Average Joe is going to accept electric propulsion.
 
Last edited:

rustycat

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2012
Location
seattle
TDI
2015 passat sel
Tesla will obviously need to build more brick and mortar service locations prior to the arrival of the Model 3. Mobile technicians (Tesla Rangers) are a great idea, but they can't do all of the things that a full service center can do.

Tesla is currently constructing four new service locations: Detroit, Omaha, Oklahoma City and New Orleans. I anticipate a rapid increase in construction similar to what we're currently seeing with the Supercharger network expansion (29 new Supercharger locations under construction as of today, several more permitted for construction to start soon, and several others being recently completed).

Compare this to traditional car manufacturers who sell EVs. A Chevy dealer needs to be EV certified to sell the Bolt and the Volt. There are only a limited number of EV-certified Chevy dealers in the country, requiring significant travel time for either the car or a technician if something goes wrong for a rural owner. And that's not limited to Chevy ... the same applies for Nissan, Kia, FCA, Mercedes and many others who have EVs and PHEVs for sale in North America. We need to see a significant expansion of EV-certified repair centers of Average Joe is going to accept electric propulsion.
If you take time to skim over the Tesla owners forums you will quickly see a lot of complaining over time to get parts and esp. Tesla's refusal to supply parts to shops not specifically endorsed by them. Don't see an over abundance of owners wanting to buy another.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
If you take time to skim over the Tesla owners forums you will quickly see a lot of complaining over time to get parts and esp. Tesla's refusal to supply parts to shops not specifically endorsed by them. Don't see an over abundance of owners wanting to buy another.
I've been reading quite a bit on TMC. I get why Tesla is protective of parts and service right now, but I will freely admit that it's causing problems with repair costs and speed. I'm hopeful that that situation will improve as time goes on.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
I think we'll have a much better idea of how well Tesla will or won't do in a year from now. If they can ramp up model 3 production as projected, I think they'll leave most of the conventional automakers in the dust.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
This is again why I think another, possibly several other, manufacturers will soldier right past them.

Same (similar) crap Sony pulled many decades ago. The Betamax system was their own baby, and not only would they not allow anyone to license the format, they would not allow any non-Sony approved facilities get genuine Sony parts. That is the business my father was in. Back when televisions, etc. were expensive cantankerous machines that needed frequent professional attention to work properly.

Of course, once JVC came out with the VHS format, it pretty much shoved Sony aside in the home video cassette business and within a few years, the Betamax was history, and even Sony branded VCRs were VHS format. We recently saw a similar deal with BlackBerry, a company that pioneered smart phone technology, and now has been eclipsed by Apple and Android models. So much so, that now even BlackBerry themselves sells models with Android OS onboard.

There may be a good case for one of the larger manufacturers to just do a hostile takeover of Tesla by quickly buying up their stock. Stuff like that happens.

Tesla is licensing/selling technology to other manufacturers though. So that may be what helps them along in the immediate future. No need to be a huge car company if you can sell stuff to others that are.
 
Last edited:

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
This is again why I think another, possibly several other, manufacturers will soldier right past them.

Same (similar) crap Sony pulled many decades ago. The Betamax system was their own baby, and not only would they not allow anyone to license the format, they would not allow any non-Sony approved facilities get genuine Sony parts. That is the business my father was in. Back when televisions, etc. were expensive cantankerous machines that needed frequent professional attention to work properly.

Of course, once JVC came out with the VHS format, it pretty much shoved Sony aside in the home video cassette business and within a few years, the Betamax was history, and even Sony branded VCRs were VHS format. We recently saw a similar deal with BlackBerry, a company that pioneered smart phone technology, and now has been eclipsed by Apple and Android models. So much so, that now even BlackBerry themselves sells models with Android OS onboard.

There may be a good case for one of the larger manufacturers to just do a hostile takeover of Tesla by quickly buying up their stock. Stuff like that happens.

Tesla is licensing/selling technology to other manufacturers though. So that may be what helps them along in the immediate future. No need to be a huge car company if you can sell stuff to others that are.
+1 above.

We may also slip into a world wide recession as consumer good sales are slowing down. Right now, car and truck sales are treading water and discounts/incentives are everywhere. Retailers in the U.S. are going into the third year of declining sales growth.

Don't get me wrong, there will always be people with lots of disposable income to by Tesla's but the mainstream may decide the cost is not justifiable when you can get a Jetta S 1.4 TSI for $15 K that routinely gets 38+ MPG.
 

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
Last edited:

patbob

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2013
Location
Beaverton, OR
TDI
was a 2013 Jetta TDI
What do people do for service of their Bentley if they live out in the boonies? They buy something else or figure out how they'll get it in for servicing. Same for Tesla. As for mechanics, they can just license/train some independent that wants that business.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
What do people do for service of their Bentley if they live out in the boonies? They buy something else or figure out how they'll get it in for servicing. Same for Tesla. As for mechanics, they can just license/train some independent that wants that business.
Yes and no. I wouldn't exactly compare a Tesla to a Bentley. They're both expensive right now, but Tesla's goal is to become mainstream by introducing more affordable automobiles that have larger production quantities. In order to be successful at that long-term, they will have to provide reasonable service.
 

patbob

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2013
Location
Beaverton, OR
TDI
was a 2013 Jetta TDI
They will have to provide reasonable service, but they don't need to do it via Tesla branded mechanics shops. That's how the auto manufacturers do it because they look at servicing a vehicle as a long term money maker. If Tesla needs to build out a service infrastructure in a hurry, they can train and license independent mechanics.

You are right -- even that will take time, so one would expect them to be starting that process now, and I'm not hearing that anything like that is going on.
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Tesla thus far seems completely uninterested in letting anyone other than their own service centers touch their cars. No parts available ... no service procedures available. It's all good until it isn't.

They are perfectly free to have that policy, and I'm perfectly free to buy something else because of it.
 

nwdiver

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
Location
Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI (sold); 2012 Tesla Model S
Tesla thus far seems completely uninterested in letting anyone other than their own service centers touch their cars. No parts available ... no service procedures available. It's all good until it isn't.

They are perfectly free to have that policy, and I'm perfectly free to buy something else because of it.
I did appreciate the ability to buy fuel filters, oil filters, oil, glow plugs, timing belts, alternator pulleys and tensioners from 3rd party dealers for my Jetta when I needed them.... but you know what's WAY better? NOT needing any of those things at all :D 112k miles and I haven't needed any parts :D

Well... I have needed tires and wind shield wipers... but I can get THOSE from 3rd party dealers...
 
Last edited:

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Wheel bearings, suspension bushings, latches and locks, HVAC parts, windshields, crash repair parts, are all normal "car stuff" that changing the powertrain to EV doesn't change. And there's lots more.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
Tesla maintenance plan cost

Model S Rear Wheel Drive
Year-by-year service: $475 (1st yr) + $725 (2nd yr) + $475 (3rd yr) + $850 (4th yr) = $2,525
3-year Maintenance Plan*: $1,550 (1st-3rd yrs) + $850 (4th yr) = $2,400
4-year Maintenance Plan: $2,325
Model S All-Wheel Drive
Year-by-year service: $550 (1st yr) + $725 (2nd yr) + $475 (3rd yr) + $850 (4th yr) = $2,600
3-year Maintenance Plan*: $1,625 (1st-3rd yrs) + $850 (4th yr) = $2,475
4-year Maintenance Plan: $2,400
Model X

Year-by-year service: $625 (1st yr) + $825 (2nd yr) + $550 (3rd yr) + $975 (4th yr) = $2,975
3-year Maintenance Plan*: $1,850 (1st-3rd yrs) + $975 (4th yr) = $2,825
4-year Maintenance Plan: $2,750
It’s a price increase on the previous structure, but they included added value, like wheel alignment and tire condition as previously mentioned, but also much more.

They check to proactively replace parts like key fob batteries and windshield wiper blades, and checking brake fluid and coolant levels, but more importantly, like they do with software updates, they can perform maintenance activities or hardware upgrades that are installed for free to improve the performance or the reliability of certain components of the car.

With the introduction of the new Maintenance Plans, Tesla also updated its Extended Service Agreements (i.e. extended warranty) to now include Roadside Assistance.

Tesla’s vehicles are already protected by a 4 year, 50,000 miles (whichever comes first) new vehicle limited warranty and 8 year, unlimited mile battery and drive unit warranty, but the company still recommend an annual service inspection every year or 12,500 miles (20,000 km). The warranty is not void if the annual inspections are not performed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top