A simple question for a not so simple answer

Battery/starter issue

00 1.9 TDI new Beetle anytime the temp drops below freezing it will not start and not even make 2 revolution on the engine, one day after I jumped started it rolling down the hill the tech at a battery place said the battery was fine and there was a 600 amp draw from the starter. No problem I understand with that amount of amp draw is way too much for any dc starter.
So here my question so if the starter is eliminated in a test rolling it down that same hill with the key in the on position as if we are driving the vehicle and the vehicle does not start how can we determine it is the starter and not the battery in this scenario?
Can't we now condemn the amount of electrical energy stored in the battery all cell were ck after the vehicle was driven to the shop

I'm not sure if I understand your question, but if the starter is pulling 3x the current it should be, and the battery place load checked the battery, then why not just replace the starter as step 1? The battery won't last much longer if you keep putting that type of load on it.

my question is shouldn't the vehicle be able to start doing a jump start if there is enough electrical storage charge in the battery?

Not if the starter is bad. You reported that the starter is drawing 600A. If memory serves that should be closer to 200A. Replace the starter and move forward from there.

tditom said:

Not if the starter is bad. You reported that the starter is drawing 600A. If memory serves that should be closer to 200A. Replace the starter and move forward from there.

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But I am eliminating the starter rolling down the hill popping the clutch am I not?

groovey said:

But I am eliminating the starter rolling down the hill popping the clutch am I not?

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Yes,you're not using the starter when hill starting and it starts fine. So, the okay hill start points to a bad starter.

dweisel said:

Yes,you're not using the starter when hill starting and it starts fine. So, the okay hill start points to a bad starter.

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But what if the hill start test the car didn't start now it is either electrical or fuel

Why not just replace the bad starter and then see if the car starts?

Good luck

groovey said:

But what if the hill start test the car didn't start now it is either electrical or fuel

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Yes, that is correct unless the hill isn't sufficient grade.

tditom said:

Why not just replace the bad starter and then see if the car starts?
Good luck

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The fact its -13 the car fail to start after 45 mins on jumper cables (yea I know I am trying to start it with the starter) and didn't start leads me to believe I have more then one issue fuel and now possible battery as well I should of put 911 before the temp got this bad, now I suspect even if it get a fresh battery and starter with the fuel gelled its going to need to be thawed out before it will start.

groovey said:

The fact its -13 the car fail to start after 45 mins on jumper cables (yea I know I am trying to start it with the starter) and didn't start leads me to believe I have more then one issue fuel and now possible battery as well I should of put 911 before the temp got this bad, now I suspect even if it get a fresh battery and starter with the fuel gelled its going to need to be thawed out before it will start.

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911 is to be used in emergency situations only. It's not the best on your fuel system,but will thaw out a gelled fuel system. If you think your fuel is gelled open the drain on the bottom of the filter. If fuel flows out. It's not gelled. Close drain and fill with Power Service,but not the 911. If it's gelled and you have a spare filter on hand. Change fuel filter and fill with PS.

-13 is WAY COLD. Not sure any of our Beetles would start at that temp and they have new batteries. We've had -1 and all have started fine.

-13 is NOT way cold. Try -30 regularily and lower . Talk to any Canadian except one from BC!!!

miningman said:

-13 is NOT way cold. Try -30 regularily and lower . Talk to any Canadian except one from BC!!!

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Well it's WAY COLD for me and none of my diesels would probably start at that temp without a block heater,heavily treated fuel and a new battery.

Battery issue a long with fuel issue problems solved as usual the way things happen to me

dweisel said:

Well it's WAY COLD for me and none of my diesels would probably start at that temp without a block heater,heavily treated fuel and a new battery.

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Well then your diesels must be in poor condition because non of mine ever have a hard time starting in those temps. It was -12F here the other day and non of them had any problems starting, even the Kubota tractor fired right up. I don't use any silly block heaters either.

refresh your starter with new brushes http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOSCH-110-1...hash=item25893e66b6:m:mWSwwxEwgGZMGJ8jXshVMoA