Whose Dumb Idea Was This???

mustangmarty

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2016
Location
Central Texas
TDI
1996 Passat Wagon TDI
Deciding that it would be a good idea to put the thermostat in such a place that would require jacking up the car and removing the power steering pump and bracket just to get access to it?

Has anyone ever considered relocating the thermostat to a more convenient place?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
You do realize that engine was designed years before they even had power steering, right? :p

Also, it takes about 2 minutes to hang the PS pump down and out of the way....hardly that big of a deal. I can show you some thermostats that are much, much more involved to replace:



The V8 Phaeton, Audi A6, A8, T'reg, etc. is around 7 hours labor, as are the belt driven V6s... ;)

So yeah, yours is cake. No need to worry about relocating anything. Be thankful it is as easy as it is, and that you needn't do it very often. :)
 

h.ubk

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Location
Idaho
TDI
1997 Jetta TDI with 1Z Engine
Funny, when I did mine, I was sure I could figure it out myself. I pulled a few things apart and just couldn't find the thermostat. After I did the job from the Bentley, I asked my German mechanic to tell me where the thermostat was and he couldn't find it either :)

h.ubk
 
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mustangmarty

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2016
Location
Central Texas
TDI
1996 Passat Wagon TDI
it’s not as bad as some, I know. But stilll, just doesn’t seem too smart the way things are put together sometimes.
 

Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
YES, many times. im doing a power 450HP build its hush hush right now but im doing a custom electric controlled thermostat. 12v Normally Closed Stainless Steel NPT threaded ball valve inline. My Auber Gauge will control its moment based on my custom parameters. Also porting the head gasket water restrictions. IDGAF about cold, this build is race/autocross events only, maybe some daily but only on a fun nice day. You DO want to put it somewhere that is NOT the highest part of the loop. otherwise it will get air locked.

PS. this is not the first time i have used this setup. Granted that valve is about $250 bucks, but there is no restriction. There is also a better higher flowing tstat you can get that works well if you ever have higher than normal temps on a modified TDI. BUt i prefer when it opens up that its pumping as much coolant as possible. I normally see 230*F WOT at the end of a hot lap around the track, soon as i did this to it, temps came down and never got higher than 205
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
it’s not as bad as some, I know. But stilll, just doesn’t seem too smart the way things are put together sometimes.
If that's your hang up, buy an ALH powered Mk4. Those are about as easy as a thermostat gets!
 

Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
TDI
Only the B4V left
there is no restriction. There is also a better higher flowing tstat you can get that works well if you ever have higher than normal temps on a modified TDI. BUt i prefer when it opens up that its pumping as much coolant as possible. I normally see 230*F WOT at the end of a hot lap around the track, soon as i did this to it, temps came down and never got higher than 205

There are great flows with no restriction with it removed completely, maybe you should try that.

I have a TDI that I service which runs at 210° normally just idling, due to a hotter thermostat. Diesels don't use heat the same way gas engines to, and some additional heat is beneficial. It usually sees 225° just driving around normally. I know there were a few people on here running Evans Waterless Coolant at much higher temperatures.

Thermostats are not about heat shedding so much as heat retention and thermal transference, but I'm not going into the thermodynamic design of the TDI cooling system.

But yes, the thermostat, like the heater core, could have been designed better and put in a better location, but then something else would be sacrificed. At least the thermostat is still fairly easy.
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
Deciding that it would be a good idea to put the thermostat in such a place that would require jacking up the car and removing the power steering pump and bracket just to get access to it?

Has anyone ever considered relocating the thermostat to a more convenient place?
Actually it's not that bad, I've done several of them and yes, you don't want to have to drop the PS pump but at least access to the bolts isn't all that tough.

I would think a relocation might cause some unwanted conditions, especially if it was far enough away that it never opened because the temp out there never got high enough to open it.

Steve
 
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compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
... None :S
Ya, the PS bracket isn't that bad to remove at all. And since it's on the bottom access is good.

The only thing I'd want to relocate on these cars would be the oil filter.
 

steves96tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2012
Location
Frederick, Maryland
TDI
2015 Passat SE TDI 6sp, 2003 Jetta TDI GLS 5 sp, 2014 Passat SE 6sp VW Buy Back
"The only thing I'd want to relocate on these cars would be the oil filter."


Like I did! :)
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
The T-stat has to be located so that return coolant (from all sources except the Rad) flows across it. The coolant is crucial to the operation of the T-stat.

The return coolant consists of: from heater core, from oil cooler, from trans cooler, from EGR cooler, and the head flow via the small hose over to the expansion tank.
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Did some work for a friend and he lamented about how under engineered the cooling system on his A3 was compared to his 70's pickup truck. His reasoning was that when they designed the P/U, they had the foresight to have addition cooling system capacity in the event the cooling system developed a leak.

Same guy had a vintage wonderfully bizarre Rover 3500 V8 that some imbecile had thrown away the the original twin carburetors and and put a 4 barrel manifold and mismatched for the engine displacement Rochester carburetor on it with a cobbed in very poorly implemented linkage. I don't think I ever got the automatic transmission throttle valve to work correctly .

I did find an original carb set up and he thought a little "American ingenuity" was just so much better than what those Brits had done from the factory. The only change he thought was necessary was to replace the stock electric fuel pump with one that had about 4 or 5 times the capacity and IIRC, a really huge ignition coil.

The most wonderfully bazaar thing on the car I can think of is the remote hydraulically actuated master cylinder/brake booster over by the alternator. If Monty Python had ever designed a car, this would have been it. :cool:

 
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Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
Did some work for a friend and he lamented about how under engineered the cooling system on his A3 was compared to his 70's pickup truck. His reasoning was that when they designed the P/U, they had the foresight to have addition cooling system capacity in the event the cooling system developed a leak.

Same guy had a vintage wonderfully bizarre Rover 3500 V8 that some imbecile had thrown away the the original twin carburetors and and put a 4 barrel manifold and mismatched for the engine displacement Rochester carburetor on it with a cobbed in very poorly implemented linkage. I don't think I ever got the automatic transmission throttle valve to work correctly .

I did find an original carb set up and he thought a little "American ingenuity" was just so much better than what those Brits had done from the factory. The only change he thought was necessary was to replace the stock electric fuel pump with one that had about 4 or 5 times the capacity and IIRC, a really huge ignition coil.

The most wonderfully bazaar thing on the car I can think of is the remote hydraulically actuated master cylinder/brake booster over by the alternator. If Monty Python had ever designed a car, this would have been it. :cool:

I don't know if I'd be dissing the American ingenuity much on the Rover, you do know that the 215 V8 in that is a 60's General Motors (Buick) product, right? Olds did a turbo version for the F85 at one point I think.

IIRC there were 4bbl versions in 62, so adapting the Rochester to that car, if done right, would have simplified the dual carb setup that is so often problematic, from a balancing perspective.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Rover in all it's weirdness, but the heart of every one of those British built V8 powered vehicles traces its roots back to what GM did in the early 60s. I dunno about you but if I was a Brit I would tend to be a little annoyed that a company from the 'colonies' was responsible for arguably the best engine that the UK had for almost half a century. (That is until Ford got hold of Jaguar and reworked everything)

AFAIC GM never should have sold it to begin with but that's another story that can be filed in the 'dumb things we did' bin along with discontinuing the Corvair. GM even tried to buy the little aluminum 215 back but Rover refused (and rightly so), which pretty much admits on GM's part that they made a big mistake. So for GM's part the fact that one of their engines became pretty much an icon of British automobilia should be a thorn in their side as well. Then again who cares about GM IMO.

Those Rovers, as much as they rusted to crap, were pretty awesome. At one point I really wanted one, and for a time you could get them here in the US too...

Steve
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The best Rovers have diesels under the hood (yes, I know the new ones are Ford engines, but still... :p ).

The gasoline engine the Toyota Land Cruisers used for a while was a GM engine too... a Chevrolet I6, although Toyota actually built them themselves.
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
The Toyota Tercel (pre-fuel injection) had an awful carburetor similar to a side draft and had a variable "throat" for the lack of a better or correct term. It had endless vacuum hoses and metal pipes.

Anyway, I installed a 2-barrel carb from a 389 Dodge on that little 1500 Yota engine, including a good linkage set and electric choke! It worked just fine!
 

mustangmarty

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2016
Location
Central Texas
TDI
1996 Passat Wagon TDI
Well, when I put it back together, I left the thermostat in the factory place for just the reasons stated here. The problem before was that I didn’t know exactly which bolts to remove and which I could leave in place so it took a lot longer than it needed to. If I ever have to do it again, it would be much easier.
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
I don't know if I'd be dissing the American ingenuity much on the Rover, you do know that the 215 V8 in that is a 60's General Motors (Buick) product, right? Olds did a turbo version for the F85 at one point I think.

IIRC there were 4bbl versions in 62, so adapting the Rochester to that car, if done right, would have simplified the dual carb setup that is so often problematic, from a balancing perspective.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Rover in all it's weirdness, but the heart of every one of those British built V8 powered vehicles traces its roots back to what GM did in the early 60s. I dunno about you but if I was a Brit I would tend to be a little annoyed that a company from the 'colonies' was responsible for arguably the best engine that the UK had for almost half a century. (That is until Ford got hold of Jaguar and reworked everything)

AFAIC GM never should have sold it to begin with but that's another story that can be filed in the 'dumb things we did' bin along with discontinuing the Corvair. GM even tried to buy the little aluminum 215 back but Rover refused (and rightly so), which pretty much admits on GM's part that they made a big mistake. So for GM's part the fact that one of their engines became pretty much an icon of British automobilia should be a thorn in their side as well. Then again who cares about GM IMO.

Those Rovers, as much as they rusted to crap, were pretty awesome. At one point I really wanted one, and for a time you could get them here in the US too...

Steve
Ya, I know, I had one of those 215 aluminum block V8's in a 62 Buick special with a factory carburetor. I wasn't knocking "American Ingenuity" so much, just the very poor implementation of it in the half baked butchery that someone thought was a good idea.

With the way the Chevy Vega engines were crapping themselves back in the day, the 215 would have been the perfect transplant. :cool:
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
Ya, I know, I had one of those 215 aluminum block V8's in a 62 Buick special with a factory carburetor. I wasn't knocking "American Ingenuity" so much, just the very poor implementation of it in the half baked butchery that someone thought was a good idea.

With the way the Chevy Vega engines were crapping themselves back in the day, the 215 would have been the perfect transplant. :cool:
Can't disagree with you there... :D

Steve
 
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