Poor PaTuDi

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
Insurers (of anything) don't make money if they have to write checks.

And second, insurers these days are looking for any reason to not write checks.

When you hear a sappy sickly sweet insurance slogan (like a good neighbor "blank" is there) etc. just remember that it's propaganda.

Insurers who want bigger market share often lose their diversification and become vulnerable on many different fronts. When insurers want to sell you home, auto and life insurance they're really gambling that a catastrophe won't cause them to have to pay out on all three. That's a risk (in California) that I wouldn't want to take TBH because over the course of the last decade CA has had it's share of catastrophes. Likewise to any area vulnerable to hurricanes.

My view

Steve
 

tdidieselbobny

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
Stafford,NY (WNY)
TDI
'03 Galactic Blue Jetta TDI, '15 Silk Blue Golf Sportwagen TDI
I've had pretty good luck with Allstate when I've totalled vehicles-I think I rejected the first offer on my A3 and B4 and the second offer got it done. I've been with them for 14 years, and I've put in a few claims over the years.....
 

MarsBar

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Location
San Jose, CA
TDI
B4V#2 "Flash", 2000 Jetta GL, B4V#1 "PaTuDI" (2008-2018 RIP)
They all now seem to use this CCC One/Valuestar to evaluate vehicles and give them comps. It's nothing but a software information processing service, that happens to have been sued multiple times through the years for manipulating valuations to get the lowest possible. The numbers they've given me would be quite in line with gassers, and I might believe they were for gassers, if it wasn't for all the glaring mistakes in the condition evaluation (not my own opinion, provable).

Stay tuned as the stomach turns and the migraine builds!
 

TDIL3dad

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2012
Location
N. VA
TDI
96 B4, 96 B4V project
Consider posting on blogs including any on-line customer portal belonging to your insurance company and COMPLAIN about their handling of your claim, poor customer service etc.


About two years ago, a deer literally ran into my B4 right front fender and my insurance adjustor wanted to give me a low ball estimate and kept telling me that this is a 1996 car, very low value etc.

I tried to point him to comps, recent sales, showed him stacks of receipts for new parts etc. but as a previous poster here said, all the adjustor seemed interested in was closing my claim.

I refused to work with him further, demanded to work with his supervisor, and when that did not happen started posting on line and on blogs about their shabby customer service.


They called me and offered a reasonable settlement very quickly after that.
 

MarsBar

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Location
San Jose, CA
TDI
B4V#2 "Flash", 2000 Jetta GL, B4V#1 "PaTuDI" (2008-2018 RIP)
TDIL3dad -- I posted on Liberty's FB page today about filing a complaint with the Calif DOI against the Portland office. Corp responded within minutes wanting to know more info, etc. Fwd'd them the side-by-side comparison I did of my car and the 2 available in Calif. One's really close in condition, the other's pretty similar. Also the bullet points I sent to DOI of each violation. Told them I didn't care who got Portland to play by the rules, as long as someone did so that I could put this mess behind me. Averaging the 2 comps comes up with a base of 6,000, then add in sales tax, DMV fees, yadda yadda yadda, and the settlement ends up close to $7,000. First offer was 2,700 and the next was 3,800, both including all the fees. So yeah, we're still a fair piece apart.
 

MarsBar

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Location
San Jose, CA
TDI
B4V#2 "Flash", 2000 Jetta GL, B4V#1 "PaTuDI" (2008-2018 RIP)
UPDATE -- despite the complaint filed with California DOI, Liberty continues to give the bird to the rules to use FMV. Sent a note to the local consumer reporter and a case review request to an atty. Also said that the valuation should be set aside because it was virtually impossible to have sufficient data on such a low production vehicle to yield an accurate valuation. We'll see.
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
There's a wagon on ebay worth watching, it has about 3 days left. It's in original condition albeit with under 100k miles.

Steve
 

T-Roy

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Location
Virginia
TDI
'92 ECOdiesel AHU
Oh man this is giving me some flashbacks. :(


As you can see I had a similar experience 2 years ago getting rear ended in my B4V and the subsequent insurance fight that I dragged out close to 6 months.

I was the middle car in a 3 car incident on a mountain in Colorado, a Prius (of course) stopped to look at deer on a downhill 2 lane mountain road shortly after a blind corner. I stopped about a car lengths behind him and layed on the horn - he just sat there. I watched in the rear view mirror as the car behind me came around the corner and didn't even try to swerve or hit the brakes - nothing - just plowed into me. He was looking back over his shoulders at said deer - while driving down a steep mountain road, right after a blind turn. Totaled his ex-wifes Toyota Sequoia (who was with him), and was driving without a license as well. First accident I've ever been in and first time having to deal with insurance at 28 years old. My most prized possession VW, I still get worked up thinking about it too much. :mad:

Here's the for sale ad and details of my B4V I bought about 3.5 years ago.
He was asking 9000 - I paid 7500. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=430927

I don't remember the exact numbers they offered, something around 1500 I believe, def under 2000 and totaled. Same issues you are having - no comparables - they kept just coming up with regular old MK3 cars, no wagons, gasser stuff, it was absolutely ridiculous what they were comparing with through their CCC One crap. It was an infuriating time...
They kept being so condescending when talking about the value.
I mean it was literally a 20 year old VW with 300k miles on it, I get it, but a vehicle like this one and the mods it has and the excellent condition even at 300k, there aren't any algorithms or formulas to put a price on it.

I actually got NiceCars (google them) to help me out with an appraisal and they were very nice and helpful - they did their due diligence. They sent lots of documentation and paperwork in showing people paying 10-20k for these things, etc, but the insurance just came back and said well those are fully restored examples - mine wasn't, so they weren't comparable. Not sure how much more restored you can get when you see all the pics and documentation I sent in about it. Everything worked fine, nothing broken or missing, interior was perfect, paint was great, southern car whole life, extremely well maintained - nothing mattered - all they saw was 20 yr old VW with 300k miles.

Long story short, I basically just ignored them and kept driving the vehicle for the next 6 months with some zip-ties holding the left side rear bumper cover in place. All the tail lights still worked, the hatch still opened and closed, there was nothing "totaled" about it. I made them well aware of this fact and my intention to fix the car and keep driving it regardless of how long this drags out - no huge deal for me. They would call probably once a week - I ignored them most of the time, but every now and then I'd answer and just end up all pissed. I finally told them look, I know what it is worth and I'm not trying to get more than I paid for the thing, I just want a fair market value and I gave them a number of 6000. A few days later they called and said they'd do it minus the salvage value. So after 6 months of being stubborn, I ended up getting a check from them for 5700 and avoided the salvage title.

It's still in the driveway with 313k and I drive it all the time - have a hatch and all the parts to fix it, but haven't taken it to a body shop to have it all fixed up as best as possible due to life changes / disposable income. Like I said it still functions fine, it is just cosmetic really, one day I will get it fixed and make it look a little better in the back.
 

MarsBar

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Location
San Jose, CA
TDI
B4V#2 "Flash", 2000 Jetta GL, B4V#1 "PaTuDI" (2008-2018 RIP)
T-Roy -- I've got a lot of the same crumple areas, just moreso. The wagon floor buckled upward by several inches and the wagon lid was shoved up more than yours. But, like yours, none of the glass or lights so much as cracked. Very weird.

I'm holding firm on the comps with the other guys insurance. California's Fair Claims Settlement Act is clear on the requirements for comp vehicles. Liberty accepted the one for sale in San Diego, but insist on using one they provided in southern Oregon from May that has unverifiable condition. The closest to mine is listed in Ventura, and they're trying like heck to DQ it saying it's had significant upgrades and modifications and is no longer like mine. *snort* It's got a good sales pitch and had a lot of maintenance/repairs done (vs restoration), but the only actual upgrades/mods are VR6 brakes and a Kerma tune. Sent a long educational email to the insurance adjustor, copying State DOI, laying all that out just this morning.

Glad yours is still alive and ticking. Estimate to repair mine was over $7k, so there's not really any options for repairing it.
 

ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
Keep at it.... I’ve been in your shoes. Years ago I had a Rabbit that was technically totaled. Insurance company started at $500, but I eventually got $5500 out of it.

The adjuster remarked that it was in dealer condition. When I was going back and forth with the claims rep, I asked her the last time she saw a Rabbit on the road... she said never and I asked her to to come up with a local comp. Since she couldn’t, she started to understand my viewpoint. They ended up giving me what I wanted.

I ended up keeping the car, less salvage value, fixed it, drove it for a while, then sold it.

-Todd
 

quantum_tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2004
Location
Seattle, WA
TDI
R320 CDI, '96 B4V (for sale)
I'm holding firm on the comps with the other guys insurance. California's Fair Claims Settlement Act is clear on the requirements for comp vehicles. Liberty accepted the one for sale in San Diego, but insist on using one they provided in southern Oregon from May that has unverifiable condition. The closest to mine is listed in Ventura, and they're trying like heck to DQ it saying it's had significant upgrades and modifications and is no longer like mine. *snort* It's got a good sales pitch and had a lot of maintenance/repairs done (vs restoration), but the only actual upgrades/mods are VR6 brakes and a Kerma tune. Sent a long educational email to the insurance adjustor, copying State DOI, laying all that out just this morning.
Ugh, sorry to hear it has been a saga - I had similar issues with my Merc R320 and dragged it to the body shop that Mercedes of Seattle uses. They subsequently too it over to the Mercedes dealer and got an extremely long list of things that were "just not quite right" the insurance would have to fight line-by-line if they didn't accept the repair work on body, etc. $4000 later in the pocket of the body shop the insurance didn't have to fight me & Mercedes on $10k+ worth of items

Someone just went through an insurance nightmare right after a repaint - have you found that thread?

Good luck & maybe this kind of thing is the best use for the Nice Car guys. I'm happy to list my wagon for a very, very high price if you'd like...
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
that last B4V on ebay closed at $5200 I think...but it was pretty nice I think...
That's the car I mentioned above several days ago. The listing is still visible here so the information can be copied and printed and sent to your insurance company.

It would support a much higher offer than you are currently at. Either that or just sit on the information and accumulate several similar listings and then feed them to the Ins company one after another while also dragging this out as long as possible.

Steve
 

MarsBar

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Location
San Jose, CA
TDI
B4V#2 "Flash", 2000 Jetta GL, B4V#1 "PaTuDI" (2008-2018 RIP)
Can't use the one on eBay, mileage is way too much lower than mine. The comps need to be in Calif or maybe just over the border into Oregon/Nevada. I've got an inquiry in to my own insurance asking if it's too late to re-open the claim with them, hoping they'll be a lot looser since it's LM's money. There's another cert'd letter waiting at the PO, so we'll see what the next round of "as the migraine builds" is.
 

MarsBar

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Location
San Jose, CA
TDI
B4V#2 "Flash", 2000 Jetta GL, B4V#1 "PaTuDI" (2008-2018 RIP)
DAILY NAUSEA REPORT -- It just gets more pathetic and more maddening by the day! Liberty had the audacity to tell me Car Fax shows it had a salvage title in 2009, but they couldn't find any "supports" for that so they didn't do anything to the value. So what was the point of even bringing it up? Make me think they've done me some kind of favor?! Un-freakin'-believable, and just a little bit sadistic.

What is so dang difficult about taking an average of the 2 comps, adding sales tax, DMV fees and the remaining 2018 registration, subtracting the $50 salvage value, and writing a check for the total????? It's not rocket science people! The regulations are clearly spelled out by the state. Not like I'm asking for enough to break anybody's bank. Sheesh!!!!
 
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MarsBar

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Location
San Jose, CA
TDI
B4V#2 "Flash", 2000 Jetta GL, B4V#1 "PaTuDI" (2008-2018 RIP)
Took the approach of "find one" this morning. Proposed that if LM sincerely believes that $3,500 is a legitimate value for my car to find a replacement for public sale of like condition for that amount, any mileage up to mine, rust/dent/cancer free body, fresh paint, hot heater and cold a/c, new clutch, etc. Gave them 5 days to do it. Y'all know I've already checked what's out there. . . There are 7 on CL in the entire US/Mexico/Canada/ and Hawaii, 3 of which aren't in any kind of close condition. Average value of the other 4 is $6,337. Wonder what kind of tap dance they'll try this time.
 
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MarsBar

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Location
San Jose, CA
TDI
B4V#2 "Flash", 2000 Jetta GL, B4V#1 "PaTuDI" (2008-2018 RIP)
They've accepted a B4V with 289k miles that came up for sale in Tacoma, though the seller lowered the price by 1k. Still refusing Ventura, the only other with close mileage. The adjustor maintains the work done to it is heavy modification vs maintenance/repairs. They're also still insisting on using the car in Oregon with zero info on condition, but a really low price. That's upped their settlement offer to a total of $4,690. Still not Fair Market Value, as required by the State.

Will be sending the Demand Letter out tomorrow (soon as I can get hold of my old law professor so it can be over his signature), filing with Small Claims Court next week.
 

0die

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2012
Location
corpus christi, tx
TDI
1996 Passat wagon B4V
well at some point they are gonna just stop and sit on it...when it gets to court one of the things they will bring up is that they kept upping their offer and will try to paint you as "unreasonable"... even though it was them who started off unreasonable...

anyway...2700 to 3800 to 4690 is pretty decent...so far

and if it ever does go to court...no guarantee the judge won't roll back their highest offer either...

hope it all ends well...but in court it's not what you "know", it's what you can "prove"
 

quantum_tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2004
Location
Seattle, WA
TDI
R320 CDI, '96 B4V (for sale)
Where did the Tacoma one come from? I can check on it if not sold as I'll be down there in the next few days. I might be in Oregon this weekend...
 

MarsBar

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Location
San Jose, CA
TDI
B4V#2 "Flash", 2000 Jetta GL, B4V#1 "PaTuDI" (2008-2018 RIP)
Liberty Mutual accepted Tacoma as a comp without any problems. Still insisting on the one that used to be for sale in May in southern Oregon, even though there's zero info on what it's condition was.

Finally will be able to get a consult with an attorney through a county Bar association program and have the info and demand letter reviewed so that I can put a cc at the bottom to a lawyer. If that doesn't get a response, it will be small claims court so a judge/lawyer pro-tem can see the documentation of the 2 being comps and meeting the regulations and Liberty's continued refusal to accept Ventura.
 

MarsBar

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Location
San Jose, CA
TDI
B4V#2 "Flash", 2000 Jetta GL, B4V#1 "PaTuDI" (2008-2018 RIP)
I think I may be gaining the upper hand!

For whatever reason, I hadn't ever decoded the VIN on the low priced Oregon comp they insist on using, instead I've been focusing on the lack of condition information. Chalk it up to pure "doh!". Decoded the VIN this morning, and lo and behold it's a SEDAN. Bazinga! So not only did I send them a list of all the things done to the Ventura car that mine has also had (or hasn't needed), I also told them that Oregon was NOT the same model as mine, could not be used as a comp, and to remove it immediately and submit a proper settlement offer.

Sure hope that gets them to move their top dead center.
 
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