alh wagon crap mileage

dabeetereater

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Location
ocala fl
TDI
96 tdi passat
try to explain this best i can car is driving me nuts and i dont want to hear 5 speed swap it cause not what i want to do

03 alh auto 195k

went at it in different "stages" of fixing it

1st got it bone stock clogged to all hell intake got 32 to 34 mpg
qa set at 3.5 , pump timing 58 ish

2nd straight pipe and cleaned intake, and walnut blasted intake ports no change in mileage, new thermostat stays at 190+ all the time,new fuel filter with return bypass from a mk1 tdi - qa set at 5 pump timing 58 34 mph avg

3rd good used 5 speed injectors qa set at 5 to 7 pump timing 58 ish . kept pulling fuel out till smoke was minimal no change in mileage, more low end power 34 mpg

4th new oem maf same pump setings 36 mpg and old maf "tested" good over 800 at wot in 3rd

5th new properly calibrated bosio dlc520s pump timing 58 qa set at 7 stll smoke a little but lost 2 mpg back down to 33 to 34 mpg

keep playing with pump timing from 30 to 80 and does not seem to change much maybe +- 1 mpg but still around 33 34 mpg

tires set at 40 and constantly checked, alingment is good, rr tire is little out of spec on camber

no dragging calipers

im in florida we have crap fuel i used 2 stroke and some diesel clean in it almost all the time with no change in mileage

i have had plenty auto cars that get over 40 stock


i do a lot of cruising under 70 mph dont drive it hard at all i keep the boost down as much as possible when cruising and accelerating


car is driving me nuts is it just a wagon thing that they get crap mileage ??
 
Last edited:

jnl_public

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Location
California, US
TDI
2002 Jetta Wagon
... 3rd good used 5 speed injectors qa set at 5 to 7 pump timing 58 ish...

Could you elaborate a bit on the 'pump timing' term? I just replaced a few seals in my fuel injector pump (IP) and now the engine is running like crap. Are you referring to adjusting parameters of the IP; ie fuel quantity/cylinder stroke?


Maybe I could learn something from your efforts also.


Thanks
 

leafs

Veteran Member
Joined
May 28, 2018
Location
canada
TDI
alh
Could you elaborate a bit on the 'pump timing' term? I just replaced a few seals in my fuel injector pump (IP) and now the engine is running like crap. Are you referring to adjusting parameters of the IP; ie fuel quantity/cylinder stroke?


Maybe I could learn something from your efforts also.


Thanks
in vcds you can see if your pump timing is advanced or retarded and you adjust it by loosening the 3 13mm bolts and using a 22mm wrench in the pump... counter clock = retard timing, clockwise = advance timing.

even if injection timing is on point according to vcds... mechanical timing between crank and cam could be off slightly or more... i believe my car the timing was slightly off... will see if it makes mpg difference.
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
I had a bad cam lock tool and my cam timing was off, crap mileage but a mountain of tq from 2000-3300 or so and before redline it was barely pulling. My fix was 3 fold as the car left me stranded. The QA had shavings stuck to the induction magnet enough to prevent the QA from moving, throwing codes. Found another 11mm pump and when swapping pumps is when I found my timing issue as I had a different cam lock but while I was wrenching I replaced the MAF as well so between timing, a different pump and a new MAF, my mpg went to around 50mpg ish depending on driving and my power is very linear now and plenty of it, I'm also tuned for a 10mm pump with an 11mm pump in soft coding 1. Now if I could successfully replace the pump head seal ..tried once and apparently did something the seal didn't like but diesel geek sends 2 seals for people like me

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
There are lots of possibilities, of course.
Transmission not shifting into torque converter lock up mode.
Tires. Size/type/tread depth, etc
Driving environment. (length of trips, AC use, terrain, etc)
Driver

I doubt fuel quality is much different than anywhere else other than areas with bio blend mandates (such as MN has-varies per time of year/season). Two stroke oil in the fuel isn't going to improve your mileage. In warm weather I've found lower mileage using cetaceans boost additives.
On my 2003 swap project car (5 speed manual, of course) I'm currently on track for a 900 mile tank. The fuel warning light just came on at 825 miles. Unfortunately I won't test it far enough to find out as there won't be a convenient fuel stop along the way this morning, so 850 miles will have to do. This is not an all hiway driving tank, plenty of errand short trip running around mixed in.
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Probably the easiest thing to do would be to find someone with a vcds so that all the cars systems can be read and the transmission can ruled out or identified as the culprit.
190k on an 01M is twice as much as could be reasonably expected.



Here's Oilhammers fuel economy thread in case you missed it.


http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=342274
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
Those transmissions usually last into the 200s

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Those transmissions usually last into the 200s

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Maybe I exaggerated a bit.:D I had one that lasted to 331k. However normally they die in the 75-150 range. Just search here on this forum and take a look at craigslist for people complaining about their transmissions or trying to unload a car that "needs transmission work" or "shifts hard" or other similar descriptive terms.
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
I've never driven a new one but I've driven one with 250k and supposedly it had been rebuilt and it shifted funny and felt like it was more than one foot in the grave but it's still puttering around 3 years later, I lost most contact with the car as I built it for my gf at the time, her money my labor...I did get my new turbo I had put on it back though...

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
There are many long time TDI owners that swear by what some call the Italian tune-up, it gets the exhaust gas temps up and helps burn off the buildup in the turbo vanes
You'll kill your car driving like that. Get it into the boost.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

Tom Brown

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Location
Regina, SK, Canada
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2006 Jetta Wagon TDI
I've had two ALHs and now a BEW.

All of these engines have gotten progressively worse economy over time. I spray the MAF with brake cleaner every 50~75K kilometers and the economy is reset. I don't remove the MAF; I just pull the air hose and spray it in place.

By the way, I know some people are adamant to not spray the MAF with brake clean but I've been doing it for 10 years. When my Golf was near new, some years ago, I replaced the MAF once, as I was supposed to. It was a pain. I had to pick up the special torx bit to get it out. It was so bad, the CEL was on. It fixed it but a few years later, the fuel economy started getting bad again and I figured I had nothing to lose by spraying it and have been doing so, ever since. Spraying lasts just as long as replacing, as best I can tell.
 
Last edited:

leafs

Veteran Member
Joined
May 28, 2018
Location
canada
TDI
alh
I've had two ALHs and now a BEW.

All of these engines have gotten progressively worse economy over time. I spray the MAF with brake cleaner every 50~75K kilometers and the economy is reset. I don't remove the MAF; I just pull the air hose and spray it in place.

By the way, I know some people are adamant to not spray the MAF with brake clean but I've been doing it for 10 years. When my Golf was near new, some years ago, I replaced the MAF once, as I was supposed to. It was a pain. I had to pick up the special torx bit to get it out. It was so bad, the CEL was on. It fixed it but a few years later, the fuel economy started getting bad again and I figured I had nothing to lose by spraying it and have been doing so, ever since. Spraying lasts just as long as replacing, as best I can tell.
well the claim is that the chlorinated solvent in brake clean could damage the maf. I think any non-polar low boiling point solvent should work. I was thinking about doing it with starter fluid, which is mainly diethyl ether.
 

Curious Chris

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 11, 2001
Location
Pineview GA
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 RIP Rockford IL
I just bought a 03 Jetta Wagon with an Automatic 500 miles on first tank in town driving. 185,000 miles. But in my garage I have a 5 speed manual with Wavetrac that will go in when this one dies.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
EPA data says 2003 TDI automatic is 29/40/33.
........................
i have had plenty auto cars that get over 40 stock ......................
So perhaps you might try a different car?
Don't know much about it, but I wonder if the larger injectors help or hurt with the automatic. I believe driving it hard on occasion will help.
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
I really want a diff but they're just so expensive, I realize it's an investment but sheesh
I just bought a 03 Jetta Wagon with an Automatic 500 miles on first tank in town driving. 185,000 miles. But in my garage I have a 5 speed manual with Wavetrac that will go in when this one dies.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Bigger "nozzles" in addition to the automatics larger capacity 11mm injection pump could perhaps be a bit of a mileage drain if one were romping on it regularity.
I would still be checking out the possibility of the tranny torque converter not going into lock up mode when it should be. Scan for codes in the TCM, not engine ECU.
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
I don't see much variance in mileage when adult driving and when juvenile driving, I've got an 11mm pump with 1019 nozzles and an S7 turbo...it stays right around 47mpg in juvenile mode and about 49 or 50 in adult non 70mph zone which means 80mph with stock gearing (no long 5th gear yet)

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
Coolant temperature sensor?
Can go bad and not throw a code. $40 and 10 minutes.
There's supposedly 2 parts to the temp sensor, one side feeds the ecm and the other drives the gauge, that'd certainly cause horrible fuel mileage if it always thought it was cold.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

dabeetereater

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Location
ocala fl
TDI
96 tdi passat
Converter is locking up fine. I went back to completely stock with it again and still under 34 mpg . Last tank was 30 mpg. And this tank might be 34 and that is 90% hwy driving under 75 mph

Cts seems to be working properly it says over 90c all the time when warmed up
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Converter is locking up fine. I went back to completely stock with it again and still under 34 mpg . Last tank was 30 mpg. And this tank might be 34 and that is 90% hwy driving under 75 mph

Cts seems to be working properly it says over 90c all the time when warmed up

Well, whatever the cluster gauge reads and when doesn't really mean much as far as accurate real coolant temp. All six or seven MklV VWs I've had (four TDI and three 1.8T's) all read 190 when the coolant reaches about 163-165*. The only way to really know is monitor it with VCDS or some other digital gauge such as ScanGauge, etc.
Although, despite what many others claim, I've never noticed a big difference in an undertemp thermostat affecting my mileage much-and I've monitored/recorded every tank fill up in every one of the TDIs (and1.8s). A bad stat made for very poor cabin heat however, that missing 20* or so of coolant temp makes a huge difference at -30*F, I can vouch for that.
 

dabeetereater

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Location
ocala fl
TDI
96 tdi passat
i did with vcds which is why i said its over 90C the whole time when its warmed up i have . and its a brand new mahle 80c thermostat


3 tanks ago with the dlc 520s i got 30 mpg

last tank went back to stock injectors which i put in my ultrasonic cleaner and i got 30mpg on this tank
last tank was 35 mpg and it was 90% hwy driving under 80 mph mostly 65 to 75

its dricing me nuts
 
Last edited:

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Time to start looking into it deeper then. Nozzles didn't change the results much. Compression, cam wear, cam/crank timing, etc.
I get better than 30 mpg pulling the snowmobile on a trailer.
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
My old auto golf would get from 38-42 most tanks. I had the IQ set at around 4.5 and the timing just below the top line.
 
Top